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Any theology textbook against predestination, limited atonement, election?

JonC

JonC

Moderator
Moderator
Yeshua1 said:
To get the real gist of what Calvinsm teaches though, at least in regards to salvation proper, one would check into Calvin, Hodge, Berkhof, Turretin etc!
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I think the point was to find sources that are not what Calvinism teaches.
 
Rob_BW

Rob_BW

Well-Known Member
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Van said:
If you peruse the topics on the internet, here is what can be found

"Predestination" has been defined by Calvinists to refer to the doctrine that God chose specific foreseen individuals before creation (before the foundation of the world) to save. Nothing we can do during our lifetime can alter that predestined outcome of our lives or the lives of our loved ones. Those not chosen cannot believe in Him because God created them with "total spiritual inability." Those chosen also cannot believe until God at a time of His choosing, supernaturally alters them with "irresistible grace" such they cannot avoid coming to a saving faith in Christ.

Those (like myself) who believe the above doctrine is bogus, argue that God chose His Redeemer before the foundation of the world and therefore chose corporately, but not individually, all those subsequently redeemed, thus He chose "us in Him" before the foundation of the world. (Ephesians 1:4)

"Limited Atonement" has been defined by Calvinist to refer to the doctrine that Christ died only for those individuals chosen before the foundation of the world.

Again those (like myself) on the other side, believe Christ died for all mankind, because He became the propitiation or means of salvation from God's wrath for the sins of the whole world. 1 John 2:2

"Election" refers to the doctrine that God chooses us individually for salvation which is a sound biblical doctrine. However "Unconditional Individual Election" before the the foundation of the world is disputed, with other scholars believing we were corporately chosen before creation. Certainly many verses indicate we were chosen individually (during our lifetime) based on faith in the truth, a conditional election.(2 Thessalonians 2:13)
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But since the OP specifies that he's taking a college course, I doubt that citing your post in his paper will meet the requirements set forth by the instructor.
 
R

rlvaughn

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An old Freewill Baptist theology I have run across doing historical research is Lectures on Systematic Theology by John Jay Butler and Ransom Dunn (Boston, MA: Morning Star Publishing House, 1892). It might serve, and can be read and searched at no cost on Google Books. Just click on the title in the first sentence.
 
I

Iconoclast

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
JonShaff said:
Yes, let us read the Bible. So, you were "in Him" before the foundations of the World? Because, Paul says we were chosen in Him before the foundation of the World. How on earth could we have been in Him before the foundation of the World when we are "Baptized into Christ" upon conversion? Quick answer: Because Paul is highlighting the Fact that God Chose Christ to bring About His Heavenly Blessings. God counseled within Himself that Christ would be the One in Whom all Nations would be blessed. I do not want to insult your intelligence Brother David, but read it slowly. It was God's plan before the foundation of the World that God would Send Christ to bless those who are in Him, this was done by His own choosing. We were not "In Christ" before the Foundation of the World. So, How could He "Choose us in Him" ?
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Why would you try so hard to avoid the truth of this text? It clearly says He chose us in Him.i will expand on this shortly.
 
L

loDebar

Well-Known Member
JonShaff said:
Yes, let us read the Bible. So, you were "in Him" before the foundations of the World? Because, Paul says we were chosen in Him before the foundation of the World. How on earth could we have been in Him before the foundation of the World when we are "Baptized into Christ" upon conversion? Quick answer: Because Paul is highlighting the Fact that God Chose Christ to bring About His Heavenly Blessings. God counseled within Himself that Christ would be the One in Whom all Nations would be blessed. I do not want to insult your intelligence Brother David, but read it slowly. It was God's plan before the foundation of the World that God would Send Christ to bless those who are in Him, this was done by His own choosing. We were not "In Christ" before the Foundation of the World. So, How could He "Choose us in Him" ?
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It is like a broken re run that never stops, even though everyone knows the discussion,
You do not know who you are nor what one was chosen for.

Ultimately, realize Pre-Destination is a lie of the devil that places sin as God creation and His fault
 
I

Iconoclast

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
loDebar said:
It is like a broken re run that never stops, even though everyone knows the discussion,
You do not know who you are nor what one was chosen for.

Ultimately, realize Pre-Destination is a lie of the devil that places sin as God creation and His fault[/QUOTE]
Predestination is a biblical doctrine. What do you mean a lie of the devil?
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L

loDebar

Well-Known Member
Squire Robertsson said:
Slow your roll here, partner. How do you deal with as noted Ephesians 1: 3-14 and Romans 8:29?
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He was talking to those already saved and chosen for service. He did choose a place and time to convict each of us of sin. We choose to serve.

Romans 8:29 is about being a human first( image of Jesus) in order that we might called, justified, glorified.
it is not about maturity before being called.
We can't mature as a Christian , to be like Christ unless , the call, justification and glorification occurs firsts.

It is election season, every one sworn in was elected but each chose to run for the job
 
V

Van

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Sources

Calvinist leaning textbooks will include some valid biblical doctrine, such as "Once Saved, Always Saved."

Non-Calvinist leaning textbooks will include some valid biblical doctrine, such as "Christ died for all mankind" and our "Conditional Individual Election" for salvation based on faith in the truth.

However, both of these "sources" may contain bogus and mistaken views. Therefore your primary source, Giovanni Blancas, must remain Scripture, contextually studied and prayerfully considered.
 
D

David Kent

Well-Known Member
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Van said:
"Election" refers to the doctrine that God chooses us individually for salvation which is a sound biblical doctrine. However "Unconditional Individual Election" before the the foundation of the world is disputed, with other scholars believing we were corporately chosen before creation. Certainly many verses indicate we were chosen individually (during our lifetime) based on faith in the truth, a conditional election.(2 Thessalonians 2:13)
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Yes lots of people try to deny what the bible says.
 
Rob_BW

Rob_BW

Well-Known Member
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David Kent said:
The only true souce is the scripture.
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David, you're an educated man, if I recall the the bits of biographical info you've posted.

The OP is discussing writing a paper for school. Helping the man find some scholarly works to cite is in no way, shape, or form denying the supreme authority of the Scriptures.
 
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