Anyone else here?

[George Antonios]

I reject both Calvinism and Arminianism as false.
I reject all 5 points of Calvinism as unscriptural, and I also reject the notion that one can lose his salvation in the church age or that N.T. salvation can be earned by works.
Anyone else here like that? Just curious.
Thanks

 

[Michael Hollner]

I reject both Calvinism and Arminianism as false.
I reject all 5 points of Calvinism as unscriptural, and I also reject the notion that one can lose his salvation in the church age or that N.T. salvation can be earned by works.
Anyone else here like that? Just curious.
Thanks

I also reject Calvinism and all 5 points, nor do I follow Arminianism.

I also agree that nobody can lose their salvation “IF” thou [we] continue in his goodness: otherwise thou [we] also shalt be cut off” (Romans 11:22) KJV.

I also agree no works on this earth can save us, nevertheless, once converted, there must be Christian evidence as to a true conversion, for “faith without works is dead” (James 2:17-26; Matt 3:8) KJV.

We must be able to understand the difference between a ‘works salvation’ message to become saved (which is unscriptural) vs the scriptural requirements to ‘work out your own salvation with fear and trembling” (Phil 2:12) after you are saved. Scripture exhorts all believers AFTER a salvation conversion (of which only God’s grace and Christ’s blood can supply) to “abide in Him” (I Jn 2:28), for “if we deny Him, He also will deny us” (II Tim 2:12) KJV.

 

[George Antonios]

I should have also specified in the OP that I reject the idea of "prevenient grace" in Arminianism.

 

[George Antonios]

I also reject Calvinism and all 5 points, nor do I follow Arminianism.

I also agree that nobody can lose their salvation “IF” thou [we] continue in his goodness: otherwise thou [we] also shalt be cut off” (Romans 11:22) KJV.

I also agree no works on this earth can save us, nevertheless, once converted, there must be Christian evidence as to a true conversion, for “faith without works is dead” (James 2:17-26; Matt 3:8) KJV.

We must be able to understand the difference between a ‘works salvation’ message to become saved (which is unscriptural) vs the scriptural requirements to ‘work out your own salvation with fear and trembling” (Phil 2:12) after you are saved. Scripture exhorts all believers AFTER a salvation conversion (of which only God’s grace and Christ’s blood can supply) to “abide in Him” (I Jn 2:28), for “if we deny Him, He also will deny us” (II Tim 2:12) KJV.

So you're Arminian.

 

[Michael Hollner]

So you're Arminian.

As much as your a 1 point Calvinist in the P of Tulip for 'perseverance of the saints"?

I identify as a Bible believer, I follow no man.

 

[George Antonios]

As much as your a 1 point Calvinist in the P of Tulip for 'perseverance of the saints"?

I identify as a Bible believer, I follow no man.

It's "perseverance of the saints", not "preservation of the saints".
The idea there is that a true believer would necessarily persevere in good works.
You can believe in eternal security but reject the P.

If you don't like the label of "Arminian" that's another thing. But you are what would be correctly described "Arminian" (by the way, Arminius never explicitly stated his belief in loss of salvation anyway).

 

[MB]

I reject both Calvinism and Arminianism as false.
I reject all 5 points of Calvinism as unscriptural, and I also reject the notion that one can lose his salvation in the church age or that N.T. salvation can be earned by works.
Anyone else here like that? Just curious.
Thanks

Like you I completely disagree with all points of Calvinism and Arminianism. Neither are biblical doctrines..
MB

 

[Michael Hollner]

It's "perseverance of the saints", not "preservation of the saints".
The idea there is that a true believer would necessarily persevere in good works.
You can believe in eternal security but reject the P.

If you don't like the label of "Arminian" that's another thing. But you are what would be correctly described "Arminian" (by the way, Arminius never explicitly stated his belief in loss of salvation anyway).

'It's "perseverance of the saints", not "preservation of the saints".

That's what I said, read my post again.

'You can believe in eternal security but reject the P.'

That's convenient. You believe in once saved always saved (or perseverance of the saints), or eternal security, or however you want to label it, then un-label yourself as a 1 point Calvinist by rejecting the P. Then you label me Arminian when you know I do not agree with him on the loss of salvation issue if that's what he actually even believed. What am I missing here?

I will make a deal here, I won't label you a 1 point Calvinist and you won't label me an Arminian until we actually get some sources of what James A and John Calvin actually wrote, not what others say about them.

Blessings.....

 

[Humble Disciple]

I reject all 5 points of Calvinism as unscriptural
Thanks

Are you familiar with the passages of scripture used to support the five points of Calvinism?

This book is mainly composed of scripture passages:
The Five Points of Calvinism: Defined, Defended, and Documented by David N. Steele

I identify as a four-point Calvinist, because Calvin himself doesn't seem to have taught limited atonement.

Skip's Lighthouse: CALVIN'S FAVORITE FLOWER WAS NOT A T.U.L.I.P.

What is Amyraldism / Four-Point Calvinism? | GotQuestions.org

 

[ad finitum]

Are you familiar with the passages of scripture used to support the five points of Calvinism?

This book is mainly composed of scripture passages:
The Five Points of Calvinism: Defined, Defended, and Documented by David N. Steele

I identify as a four-point Calvinist, because Calvin himself doesn't seem to have taught limited atonement.

Skip's Lighthouse: CALVIN'S FAVORITE FLOWER WAS NOT A T.U.L.I.P.

What is Amyraldism / Four-Point Calvinism? | GotQuestions.org

It is worth pursuing to be on the Road to Emmaus with our eager hearts burning within us, as the scriptures are opened to us by God. Got questions? Don't consult www.gotQuestions.org (wrong god. ).

If we want to know what's right, Proverbs 2 gives the recipe. Wouldn't it be nice to have a local assembly where the teaching of the pastor was like walking on the road to Eammaus, where your heart burned within you at the teaching of God's Word?

...And your understanding didn't stop with the boilerplate "Statement of Faith" or the catechism?

 

[MB]

'It's "perseverance of the saints", not "preservation of the saints".

That's what I said, read my post again.

'You can believe in eternal security but reject the P.'

That's convenient. You believe in once saved always saved (or perseverance of the saints), or eternal security, or however you want to label it, then un-label yourself as a 1 point Calvinist by rejecting the P. Then you label me Arminian when you know I do not agree with him on the loss of salvation issue if that's what he actually even believed. What am I missing here?

I will make a deal here, I won't label you a 1 point Calvinist and you won't label me an Arminian until we actually get some sources of what James A and John Calvin actually wrote, not what others say about them.

Blessings.....

You are funny. Calvinism didn't come up with OSAS. "Perseverance" suggest work to stay saved. Do you work to stay saved?
MB

 

[George Antonios]

'It's "perseverance of the saints", not "preservation of the saints".

That's what I said, read my post again.

I know, that's my point. You equated perseverance to preservation.
I think you may not be familiar with the P if you think it's the equivalent of the eternal security doctrine.
Anyway.

 

[George Antonios]

Are you familiar with the passages of scripture used to support the five points of Calvinism?

This book is mainly composed of scripture passages:
The Five Points of Calvinism: Defined, Defended, and Documented by David N. Steele

I identify as a four-point Calvinist, because Calvin himself doesn't seem to have taught limited atonement.

Skip's Lighthouse: CALVIN'S FAVORITE FLOWER WAS NOT A T.U.L.I.P.

What is Amyraldism / Four-Point Calvinism? | GotQuestions.org

Yes, I was a Calvinist for 3 years. I know well how proof texts whose linguistic tenor correlates to Calvinistic theology are coopted to support the system.

 

[Michael Hollner]

I know, that's my point. You equated perseverance to preservation.
I think you may not be familiar with the P if you think it's the equivalent of the eternal security doctrine.
Anyway.

‘I think you may not be familiar with the P if you think it's the equivalent of the eternal security doctrine.’

Perhaps, or perhaps not, for some Calvinists do equate the terminology of the Perseverance of the Saints with “eternal security” (Shelton, vol. 1, p.1; Rose, p.49; Sproul, Chosen by God, p. 175; Palmer, p.69; Custance, p.197).

Perhaps define in a nutshell your own definition of ‘eternal security,’ a word not even found in scripture. The Bible does mention Christ as “being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him” (Heb 5:9) KJV. Does your ‘eternal security’ mean that once you are in the grace of God, that you will always be in the grace of God? If so, is that with or without obedience to Him?

I am just trying to understand your position. You opened the thread, I am just having a dialogue with you, and I am not trying to prove anything here.

Blessings……

 

[George Antonios]

Does your ‘eternal security’ mean that once you are in the grace of God, that you will always be in the grace of God? If so, is that with or without obedience to Him?

Yes, always in the grace of God, and without required obedience to maintain salvation.
But that doctrine holds only true in the church age. Eternal security is not true in any other dispensation.

 

[Scott Downey]

Total depravity, here is how God describes the concept.
Genesis 8
20 Then Noah built an altar to the Lord, and took of every clean animal and of every clean bird, and offered burnt offerings on the altar. 21 And the Lord smelled a soothing aroma. Then the Lord said in His heart, “I will never again curse the ground for man’s sake, although the imagination of man’s heart is evil from his youth; nor will I again destroy every living thing as I have done.

And God also says, if you sin against one part of His LAW, you are guilty of all the LAW
James 2:10
For whoever shall keep the whole law, and yet stumble in one point, he is guilty of all.

And that means death in the lake of fire.

So our only way forward is by His grace to be saved. There is no other way of salvation.

Ephesians 2
4 But God, who is rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us,
5 even when we were dead in trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved),

All other verses must be understood in refence to this truth.

John 1:16
And of His fullness we have all received, and grace for grace.

John 1:17
For the law was given through Moses, but grace and truth came through Jesus Christ.

 

[37818]

thou [we]

"Thou" is to an individual not to a group, as in "we."

 

[37818]

Problems of meanings, notions and the use of terminology.

 

[Yeshua1]

Are you familiar with the passages of scripture used to support the five points of Calvinism?

This book is mainly composed of scripture passages:
The Five Points of Calvinism: Defined, Defended, and Documented by David N. Steele

I identify as a four-point Calvinist, because Calvin himself doesn't seem to have taught limited atonement.

Skip's Lighthouse: CALVIN'S FAVORITE FLOWER WAS NOT A T.U.L.I.P.

What is Amyraldism / Four-Point Calvinism? | GotQuestions.org

I was once right there with you, but forced tgo accept that the limited atonement viewpoint make consistent sense.