Apostolic Uniqueness

[Yeshua1]

Acts 1:21-22 specifically says, "Wherefore of these men which have companied with us all the time that the Lord Jesus went in and out among us, Beginning from the baptism of John, unto that same day that he was taken up from us, must one be ordained to be a witness with us of his resurrection."

That's not what you said. It doesn't say, "or be visited by Him post resurrection."

James and Paul had Jesus visit and commission them post resurrection, correct?

 

[Yeshua1]

Here is the thing, folks. The book of Acts simply must be looked at with missiological eyes. The usual NT scholar does not do this. As a missionary on furlough, I once took a 4 credit MA level course in Acts. The prof (a good man, but not a missiologist) spent literally hours on the North and South Galatian theories, but never once mentioned doing cross-cultural evangelism or planting churches, yet these two subjects are exactly what the whole book of Acts (and thus apostleship) is about! Remember that the original Greek title was "Acts of the Apostles." Don't even read the book of Acts if you are not thinking of world missions, or you will get it wrong.

As I did on the previous thread, I'll post here what some leading missiologists have said about this issue, adding some I didn't mention previously:

A. “The word missionary comes from the Latin word mitto, which means ‘to send.’ It is the equivalent of the Greek word apostello, which also means ‘to send.’ The root meaning of the two words is identical.”
J. Herbert Kane, The Making of a Missionary (Grand Rapids: Baker, 1975), 13.

B. “To whom should the term 'missionary' be applied? Obviously today's missionary is not in the same class with the twelve apostles, who must forever remain in a class by themselves (Lk 22:30; Re 21:14). They do, however, have much in common with the 'second-string' apostles who were sent out by the various churches on teaching and preaching missions to all parts of the Roman Empire.”
Ibid, 14.

C. “Paul stated that not only was he ordained a preacher, he was also an apostle. Paul knew that he was an apostle (see Acts 22:21; I Tim. 1:1). A missionary is, in a sense, an apostle. The word “missionary” is the exact Latin equivalent for the Greek word “apostle.” Both words have the same meaning—“one who has been sent.” Jesus said to His disciples after His resurrection, “As my Father hath sent me, even so send I you” (John 20:21).”
G. Christian Weiss, The Heart of Missionary Theology (Lincoln, NE: Back to the Bible, 1976), 66-67.

D. “The very name of the book (of Acts) is in keeping with this through. The word ‘apostle’ (from the Greek apostello—‘I send’) is a synonym for ‘missionary’ (from the Latin mitto—‘I send’). An apostle, or missionary, is a ‘sent-one,’ and so the book might just as accurately have been called ‘The Doings of the Missionaries.’”[4]
Robert Hall Glover, The Bible Basis of Missions (Chicago: Moody Press, 1946), 26.

E. “After a careful examination of the Biblical data James Hastings in his Dictionary of the Apostolic Church comes to the following conclusion: ‘The cumulative effect of the facts and probabilities stated above is very strong—so strong that we are justified in affirming that in the New Testament there are persons other than the Twelve and St. Paul who were called apostles, and in conjecturing that they were rather numerous. All who seemed to be called by Christ or the Spirit to do missionary work would be thought worthy of the title, especially such as had been in personal contact with the Master.’ This conclusion is substantiated by the usage of the word apostle for itinerant ministers in the subapostolic age.”
George Peters, "Let the Missionary Be a Missionary,” Bib. Sac. (Oct-Dec. 1965).

F. “In the New Testament there are two kinds of apostles. First, there is the relatively small group of those who were personally chosen and instructed by the Lord. These men held the office of apostle, to which there is no succession. Second, there are those men who had the gift of apostleship and were called ‘messengers [apostoloi] of the churches’ (2 Cor. 8:23). In this group were included such men as Barnabas, Silas, Timothy, Epaphroditus, Andronicus, and Junias.”
David Hesselgrave, Planting Churches Cross-Culturally (Grand Rapids: Baker Academic, 2000), 95.

The Office of the Greater NT Apostle ended and ceased when John passed, but the other Apostles could be seen as modern missionaries!

 

[Baptist Believer]

James and Paul had Jesus visit and commission them post resurrection, correct?

(1) Which James? There were two in The Twelve, and then there was James, literally the brother of Jesus, who wrote the epistle of James. He appeared to His brother James (1 Corinthians 15:7), although I am unaware of James the brother of Jesus being recognized as an apostle in the New Testament, since he led the Jerusalem church (he was not "sent"). I also am unaware of any reference to James, the brother of Jesus, being "commissioned" by Jesus or anyone else.

The Office of the Greater NT Apostle ended and ceased when John passed, but the other Apostles could be seen as modern missionaries!

After Matthias, we have no other record of anyone else being added to "The Twelve" (what you are calling "greater" apostles instead of the biblical name), but The Twelve and modern missionaries are all apostles.

 

[John of Japan]

James and Paul had Jesus visit and commission them post resurrection, correct?

James? When?

 

[John of Japan]

There is quite a bit of confusion among NT scholars and the man in the pew as to what makes someone an apostle. Seeing Jesus? No, because thousands saw Him and hundreds followed Him without becoming apostles. Being sent out by Him? Yes, that is historically when it happened. Please note:

The twelve disciples became apostles and were first called apostles in the Bible well before Pentecost. This occurred upon their being sent on an evangelistic journey, showing that the most important thing about being an apostle is being sent with a message and a task (Matthew 10:1-2, Mark 6:30, Luke 6:13, Luke 9:10).

 

[Baptist Believer]

The twelve disciples became apostles and were first called apostles in the Bible well before Pentecost. This occurred upon their being sent on an evangelistic journey, showing that the most important thing about being an apostle is being sent with a message and a task (Matthew 10:1-2, Mark 6:30, Luke 6:13, Luke 9:10).

Regarding being sent out by Jesus, do you think the 72 sent out by Jesus (Luke 10:1-23) were also apostles, even though Luke doesn't note it in his gospel?

 

[John of Japan]

Regarding being sent out by Jesus, do you think the 72 sent out by Jesus (Luke 10:1-23) were also apostles, even though Luke doesn't note it in his gospel?

They are not specifically called "apostles" either in the NT, or as far as I know in church history, but to me they fit the definition.

 

[1689Dave]

Only the 12 and Paul received the baptism of the Holy Spirit and worked miracles. Also the few they laid hands on. The gentiles had the baptism some 7 years later in their outpouring in Peter's presence.

But only one of the 12 or Paul is said to pass the baptism and gifts through their hands. The gifts began dwindling in the epistles where Paul could no longer heal sick comrades. This shows the uniqueness of the apostles chosen by Christ. All believers since Pentecost have the indwelling of the Holy Spirit and can seek healing through the prayer of faith.

 

[John of Japan]

Everyone focuses on the apostles themselves. What about what God did through them? We should be thrilled at 3,000 saved at Pentecost, not the miracles, which are secondary.

I just talked to our missions pastor, who is all excited. He has been in West Africa observing a church planting movement that has seen 3,000 churches planted. The leader of the movement is asking God to use him to influence 1.5 billion people for Christ. Now tell me how is that different from the book of Acts? Never mind the miracles! People are getting saved by the millions!

I myself have been to Africa to teach African Bible translators. There I observed a church planting movement with about 30 churches! That's the exciting thing, not the miracles. And I flew in a small plane at 9,000 feet looking down on hundreds of villages. I asked the missionary pilot if he had a 1,000 new missionaries what would he do. He said he could place them in unreached villages immediately. That's what the book of Acts is about, folks.

Note the following scholarly account of the church planting movement in the Roman province of Galatia as related in the book of Acts:

"The evangelization of the province began in Acts 13:14. The stages were: (1) the audience in the synagogue at Pisidian Antioch, 13:14-43; (2) almost the whole city, 13:44; (3) the whole region, i.e., a large district that was affected from the capital (as the whole of Asia was affected from Ephesus, Acts 19:10); (4) Iconium, another city of this region – in 13:51 no boundary is mentioned; (5) a new region Lycaonia with two cities and a surrounding district, 14:6; (6) return journey to organize the churches (14:21-23…); (7) progress across the region Pisidia, where no churches were founded (14:24…)."
W. M. Ramsay and C. J. Hemer, "Galatia,” in International Standard Bible Encyclopedia, rev., vol. 2, ed. by Geoffrey Bromiley (Grand Rapids: Zondervan, 1982), 378.

 

[John of Japan]

No one has brought this up yet, and our esteemed OP author is not posting, so I thought I'd fire a preemptory shot across the bows concerning apostleship and what I just posted. Some refer to miracles as the sign of apostleship, but this is mistaken. Miracles are only a means to produce the sign of apostleship, which is souls saved. Note what Paul said in 1 Cor. 9:1-2:

"1 Am I not an apostle? am I not free? have I not seen Jesus Christ our Lord? are not ye my work in the Lord? 2 If I be not an apostle unto others, yet doubtless I am to you: for the seal of mine apostleship are ye in the Lord."

Paul clearly says that the Corinthians themselves, souls he saw saved as a result of his ministry, are the "seal" of his apostleship.

Someone will then take me to 2 Cor. 12:12, "Truly the signs of an apostle were wrought among you in all patience, in signs, and wonders, and mighty deeds." But the word "in" there is the Greek en (ἐν), which takes the dative case. Even in a prepositional phrase the dative case often is the dative of means. In other words, Paul is saying that the signs of apostleship were produced "by means" of "patience, signs, and wonders, and mighty deeds." Many people were saved in Corinth because of the miracles they saw and the Gospel Paul preached. The miracles were secondary, not primary. So if you are focusing on the miracles of apostles in the Bible you are missing the whole point of apostleship--people getting saved.

 

[Yeshua1]

(1) Which James? There were two in The Twelve, and then there was James, literally the brother of Jesus, who wrote the epistle of James. He appeared to His brother James (1 Corinthians 15:7), although I am unaware of James the brother of Jesus being recognized as an apostle in the New Testament, since he led the Jerusalem church (he was not "sent"). I also am unaware of any reference to James, the brother of Jesus, being "commissioned" by Jesus or anyone else.


After Matthias, we have no other record of anyone else being added to "The Twelve" (what you are calling "greater" apostles instead of the biblical name), but The Twelve and modern missionaries are all apostles.

Paul recorded down to us inspired books, none could do that after Him, as he was the last called as a greater Apostle!

 

[Yeshua1]

James? When?

he wrote inspired revelation, correct?

 

[Yeshua1]

There is quite a bit of confusion among NT scholars and the man in the pew as to what makes someone an apostle. Seeing Jesus? No, because thousands saw Him and hundreds followed Him without becoming apostles. Being sent out by Him? Yes, that is historically when it happened. Please note:

The twelve disciples became apostles and were first called apostles in the Bible well before Pentecost. This occurred upon their being sent on an evangelistic journey, showing that the most important thing about being an apostle is being sent with a message and a task (Matthew 10:1-2, Mark 6:30, Luke 6:13, Luke 9:10).

None have since John passed been given revelations from God directly, nor penned down inspired works, correct?

 

[Yeshua1]

Everyone focuses on the apostles themselves. What about what God did through them? We should be thrilled at 3,000 saved at Pentecost, not the miracles, which are secondary.

I just talked to our missions pastor, who is all excited. He has been in West Africa observing a church planting movement that has seen 3,000 churches planted. The leader of the movement is asking God to use him to influence 1.5 billion people for Christ. Now tell me how is that different from the book of Acts? Never mind the miracles! People are getting saved by the millions!

I myself have been to Africa to teach African Bible translators. There I observed a church planting movement with about 30 churches! That's the exciting thing, not the miracles. And I flew in a small plane at 9,000 feet looking down on hundreds of villages. I asked the missionary pilot if he had a 1,000 new missionaries what would he do. He said he could place them in unreached villages immediately. That's what the book of Acts is about, folks.

Note the following scholarly account of the church planting movement in the Roman province of Galatia as related in the book of Acts:

"The evangelization of the province began in Acts 13:14. The stages were: (1) the audience in the synagogue at Pisidian Antioch, 13:14-43; (2) almost the whole city, 13:44; (3) the whole region, i.e., a large district that was affected from the capital (as the whole of Asia was affected from Ephesus, Acts 19:10); (4) Iconium, another city of this region – in 13:51 no boundary is mentioned; (5) a new region Lycaonia with two cities and a surrounding district, 14:6; (6) return journey to organize the churches (14:21-23…); (7) progress across the region Pisidia, where no churches were founded (14:24…)."
W. M. Ramsay and C. J. Hemer, "Galatia,” in International Standard Bible Encyclopedia, rev., vol. 2, ed. by Geoffrey Bromiley (Grand Rapids: Zondervan, 1982), 378.

There is still a unique position and role the greater Apostles functioned for Jesus, not repeatable today!

 

[Yeshua1]

No one has brought this up yet, and our esteemed OP author is not posting, so I thought I'd fire a preemptory shot across the bows concerning apostleship and what I just posted. Some refer to miracles as the sign of apostleship, but this is mistaken. Miracles are only a means to produce the sign of apostleship, which is souls saved. Note what Paul said in 1 Cor. 9:1-2:

"1 Am I not an apostle? am I not free? have I not seen Jesus Christ our Lord? are not ye my work in the Lord? 2 If I be not an apostle unto others, yet doubtless I am to you: for the seal of mine apostleship are ye in the Lord."

Paul clearly says that the Corinthians themselves, souls he saw saved as a result of his ministry, are the "seal" of his apostleship.

Someone will then take me to 2 Cor. 12:12, "Truly the signs of an apostle were wrought among you in all patience, in signs, and wonders, and mighty deeds." But the word "in" there is the Greek en (ἐν), which takes the dative case. Even in a prepositional phrase the dative case often is the dative of means. In other words, Paul is saying that the signs of apostleship were produced "by means" of "patience, signs, and wonders, and mighty deeds." Many people were saved in Corinth because of the miracles they saw and the Gospel Paul preached. The miracles were secondary, not primary. So if you are focusing on the miracles of apostles in the Bible you are missing the whole point of apostleship--people getting saved.

Apostles could do signs and wonders, gifted to do such by Lord Jesus, and could pen down inspired revelations from God to us!

 

[John of Japan]

he wrote inspired revelation, correct?

Right. So?

 

[John of Japan]

Apostles could do signs and wonders, gifted to do such by Lord Jesus, and could pen down inspired revelations from God to us!

This totally misses my point.

 

[Yeshua1]

This totally misses my point.

I agree missionaries seem to fir the definition of the lessor Apostles of the NT, but think the greater position was now closed off...

 

[Baptist Believer]

Paul recorded down to us inspired books, none could do that after Him, as he was the last called as a greater Apostle!

You referenced "James" and I asked which one of the three prominent James' in the New Testament (two apostles and one the brother of Jesus), and you respond by making unbiblical assertions about Paul.

The Bible DOES NOT use the term "greater apostle." It uses "The Twelve" to identify the twelve selected by Jesus and Matthias, the replacement for Judas Iscariot. Paul IS NOT one of The Twelve, nor is he called a "greater apostle."

Moreover, as has been noted MANY, MANY times, some apostles wrote scripture and others did not. Some non-apostles wrote scripture (John Mark, Luke, and possibly the author of Hebrews), so that is not a mark of an apostle.

I realize you just like posting at high volume and not interacting, helping, or learning, so I'm sure I am wasting my time with you. However, others might read your nonsense and be misled, so I feel compelled to correct your false teaching. You will be held accountable for your words and attitude in the judgment (James 3:1).

 

[Yeshua1]

You referenced "James" and I asked which one of the three prominent James' in the New Testament (two apostles and one the brother of Jesus), and you respond by making unbiblical assertions about Paul.

The Bible DOES NOT use the term "greater apostle." It uses "The Twelve" to identify the twelve selected by Jesus and Matthias, the replacement for Judas Iscariot. Paul IS NOT one of The Twelve, nor is he called a "greater apostle."

Moreover, as has been noted MANY, MANY times, some apostles wrote scripture and others did not. Some non-apostles wrote scripture (John Mark, Luke, and possibly the author of Hebrews), so that is not a mark of an apostle.

I realize you just like posting at high volume and not interacting, helping, or learning, so I'm sure I am wasting my time with you. However, others might read your nonsense and be misled, so I feel compelled to correct your false teaching. You will be held accountable for your words and attitude in the judgment (James 3:1).

Paul was THE Apostle to the Gentiles, and his books are among the greatest in entire canon, see Romans!