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Applying Christ blood to recent sin
- Thread starter 2 Timothy2:1-4
- Start date
James_Newman
New Member
No, I got that part. None of this discussion on my part has been about unbelievers, so without Jesus I agree we can do nothing.npetreley said:
James, James (the other one that wrote the book :laugh: ) is not saying we are justified by works or else Paul lied. Paul make is clear that we are NOT justified by works, but by grace through faith.
Eph 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, {it is} the gift of God;
Eph 2:9 not as a result of works, so that no one may boast.
Titus 3:7 so that being justified by His grace we would be made heirs according to {the} hope of eternal life.
There are a billion verses on grace. I don't need to post them all.
You cannot justify yourself. You cannot make yourself right with God by your works.
Eph 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, {it is} the gift of God;
Eph 2:9 not as a result of works, so that no one may boast.
Titus 3:7 so that being justified by His grace we would be made heirs according to {the} hope of eternal life.
There are a billion verses on grace. I don't need to post them all.
You cannot justify yourself. You cannot make yourself right with God by your works.
You said it. This is a basic tenet of our faith. Kingdom salvation belongs in a pile along with JW, LDS, etc. The quote from James is ripped out of context (and the context is that we are imputed righteousness by faith, no less!). It only appears contradictory because the context is lost.Amy.G said:
I say let the KS people have their self-righeousness and reap the consequences.
.
James_Newman
New Member
Amy.G said:
Can you give me the proper decoder ring settings? Because for some reason I can't make my bible say what you say it should.
James 2:24
24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.
There, it said it again! By works a man IS justifed.
James_Newman
New Member
npetreley said:
I'm saying that just because a man doesn't abide in Christ and bring forth much fruit, that doesn't mean he isn't saved. I think you agree, because you disagreed with me when I said you believed a man had to have good works to prove he was saved. So if a man doesn't have good works, he is cast into the fire and burned, according to the Lord. How do you apply this to believers who do not abide in Christ?
I don't agree. And I did not agree with you at all that man has to do good works to prove he is saved. Go back and re-read my responses. Your "trick question" is built on faulty reasoning. It amounts to "all dogs are mammals, therefore all mammals are dogs".James_Newman said:
Read the whole book. Works are the result of faith. If you say you have faith, but you don't have any works, then you have a dead faith, which leaves you with a faith that cannot save you.James_Newman said:
You are saved by grace through faith (a living faith that will be shown by your works) not a dead faith that has no works.
James_Newman
New Member
Amy says you have to have works to prove you are saved, is that not what you are saying?npetreley said:
Hope of Glory
New Member
Don't you people ever work?
Oh, well, while I'm here, I'll point out that James 2:24 also uses the present tense on "justified". It can stop. You stop doing the works, you stop being justified.
Oh, well, while I'm here, I'll point out that James 2:24 also uses the present tense on "justified". It can stop. You stop doing the works, you stop being justified.
I know this is a novel idea, but what if maybe the two contexts aren't the same. Oh wait that is just exactly it. Again you are trying to force a orange Scripture into an apple context and vice versa.
When you mix messages errors result usually on both sides of the error.
James is not talking to saved individuals about something they already had, because there is no reason to do that. They didn't need to know about what they already possessed. And the faith that he discusses is a present need and has to be a present reality once again showing the difference in context.
The contexts are not the same. They can not be the same.
James_Newman
New Member
Hope of Glory said:
The only time I get to use the internet is when I am at work! :laugh:
James_Newman said:
Amy didn't say that, and neither did I. We both said that works follow from faith. Believers don't have to prove anything. You have to prove something because your faith is in self-righteousness. Don't transfer your error to us, as if we have to think in the same terms.
.James_Newman
New Member
npetreley said:
Allow me to rephrase, if a person doesn't have good works (doesn't abide in Christ and bring forth much fruit) that proves they are not saved. How about that?
James_Newman
New Member
npetreley said:
Then how are you right to say that the warning of being cast into the fire for not abiding in Christ only applies to unbelievers?
If that is true then why does Eph. 2:10 say we "should" do the good works instead of we "will" do the good works? Was that another inarticulate moment?
Why are we warned about sowing to the flesh if we are guaranteed of doing good works? Why are we commanded to die to ourselves if that is indeed a guarantee?
There is aboslutely no Scriptural proof that works follow from faith. They SHOULD, but they may not. And they may start and not continue as there is no Scriptural proof that you are going to do goods works forever until you die.