Are All Men Drawn Equally?

[Luke2427]

No, Jack and John prove free will.

How?

John goes to heaven and Jack goes to hell.

Why?

Because John repented and Jack did not.

Why?

Because John received the message of the Gospel and Jack did not.

Why?

Because...

Now at this point you have either John being a better person than Jack or you have God choosing John and not Jack.
It is one or the other.

There is another alternative but it is just to keep saying the same thing over and over again in different ways rather than actually taking the next step. Some did this last time- at this point they say, "Because John humbled himself" "Because John saw God for what he is and himself for who he is" "Because John trusted the Word of God"... But these are all just other ways of saying the same thing and staying stuck on the same step.

 

[Luke2427]

To the Op...

Let's see, we all come into this world the exact same way. We are all given nature that points to God. We are all given a conscience with God's law written on our hearts. We are all created with "eternity on our hearts" which is the desire to be immortal. On top of that God has placed every single human being ever created in the exact location and place in time and geographically to seek Him and "perhaps" reach out to Him although He is not far from each one of us.

I think that pretty much sums up the answer. Yes.

So why do some come and others don't?

 

[webdog]

So why do some come and others don't?

This thread is about "Are all men drawn equally". I answered that.

We've been down the Jack and Jill route already...

 

[matt wade]

Now at this point you have either John being a better person than Jack or you have God choosing John and not Jack.
It is one or the other.

No..it's not one or the other. I have John making a choice that Jack did not make.

 

[Luke2427]

No..it's not one or the other. I have John making a choice that Jack did not make.

Why does Jack and John not make the same choice if they are both equally depraved and God draws them equally? Is eternity in the hands of random chance? What is the REASON one comes to Christ and the other does not?

You are reduced to saying that John is wiser and/or more morally upright.

The implication is that God chooses those who are better than their peers.

 

[matt wade]

Why does Jack and John not make the same choice if they are both equally depraved and God draws them equally?

Because they have made different choices throughout their lives and lived different lives.

They are not the predictable robots that Calvinism would have them be.

 

[Luke2427]

This thread is about "Are all men drawn equally". I answered that.

We've been down the Jack and Jill route already...

Yea and you got stuck on one step and refused to go any further because you knew what it would reveal- that God must have been the one who determined who would be saved.

 

[Nicholas25]

As I am reading all of these replies I am wondering if all are drawn equally as many on here believe, then why do not more respond? Again, I feel like I could not have said no to God's call and conviction. I should also say that I am not talking about the outward call of preaching and teaching or the call of nature around us revealing there is a God. I am talking about the Holy Spirit moving like the wind and convicting the heart of a sinner.

 

[MB]

How?

John goes to heaven and Jack goes to hell.

Why?

Because John repented and Jack did not.

Why?

Because John received the message of the Gospel and Jack did not.

Why?

Because...

Now at this point you have either John being a better person than Jack or you have God choosing John and not Jack.
It is one or the other.

There is another alternative but it is just to keep saying the same thing over and over again in different ways rather than actually taking the next step. Some did this last time- at this point they say, "Because John humbled himself" "Because John saw God for what he is and himself for who he is" "Because John trusted the Word of God"... But these are all just other ways of saying the same thing and staying stuck on the same step.

Actually Jack chose to go to hell by choosing to rebel against God. John on the other hand simply gave up the rebellion and surrendered
MB

 

[Luke2427]

Actually Jack chose to go to hell by choosing to rebel against God. John on the other hand simply gave up the rebellion and surrendered
MB

You're at the same step just saying it in different ways.

The question is WHY did John choose what he chose and Jack not amek the same choice John did.

What was it about John that caused him to make the right choice?

What did John have in him that Jack did not have?

 

[Luke2427]

Because they have made different choices throughout their lives and lived different lives.

They are not the predictable robots that Calvinism would have them be.

Why were Jack's choices such that led him to make this fateful choice of rejection while John's choices in life were such that led him to make this great choice of receiving Christ?

Was John born into a situation where his chain of choices were easier than Jacks?

Was Jack born into a situation that caused his chain of choices leading up to his choice to reject Christ?

Saying one simply chose is not an answer to the question WHY did he choose what he chose.

Saying, "because of all the other choices he made previously", does not answer the question either.

Why did Jack make a poor chain of choices leading to his rejection of Christ while John made a better chain of choices leading to his receiving Christ?

The answer you are reduced to if you will just take the next step is that John is somehow better than Jack- intellectually, morally, etc... or that John was placed into surroundings that made him more able to make a good chain of choices- whether his family, friends, school, neighborhood,- whatever the case- there is some advantage that John has over Jack. That is what you must conclude.

 

[MB]

Yea and you got stuck on one step and refused to go any further because you knew what it would reveal- that God must have been the one who determined who would be saved.

So you're saying man being saved at all depends entirely on his fate of being particularity chosen. I haven't seen that one in scripture. I believe it's called fatalism.
MB

 

[Luke2427]

So you're saying man being saved at all depends entirely on his fate of being particularity chosen. I haven't seen that one in scripture. I believe it's called fatalism.
MB

We're not talking about what I am saying yet. I believe God chose John and not Jack. But we are talking about what you say is the reason that John made the chain of choices he made which led him to salvation and Jack made the chain of choices he made.

The answer you must give is that John had some advantage over Jack... or what is your alternative?

 

[Amy.G]

God chose John because he believed in the death, burial and resurrection of Christ. John put his faith in Christ to deliver him from death.

Jack rejected the gospel.


So simple a child can understand.

 

[Gabriel Elijah]

God chose John because he believed in the death, burial and resurrection of Christ. John put his faith in Christ to deliver him from death.

Jack rejected the gospel.


So simple a child can understand.

So is God’s choice based on man’s decision or is man’s choice based on God decision?

 

[webdog]

Yea and you got stuck on one step and refused to go any further because you knew what it would reveal- that God must have been the one who determined who would be saved.

Instead of hijacking this thread, why not start another one? I got stuck on nothing...quit patting yourself on the back. Unless you can crawl into either's head YOU don't know why one did and one didn't. YOU will try to tell us why, but it is purely your opinion. The Bible tells us some love the truth and some love the darkness rather than the light. That is what you know, and what I know. Anything further than that is reading into Scripture.

 

[Robert Snow]

-- check out Romans 8:28-30 sometime.

I believe this is another misapplication of Scripture.

Rom 8:28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.

Rom 8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

Rom 8:30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

God forknew, that is He knew the ones who would put their trust in Him. God then predestinated them to be conformed to the image of His Son. No falling from grace. God looks at believers as though we are already glorified.

God chose those who would believe to end up glorified.

Nothing here about God choosing some to be saved and some to be lost, which is not in accordance with the plain teaching of Scripture, in my opinion.

 

[webdog]

So is God’s choice based on man’s decision or is man’s choice based on God decision?

Yes........

 

[Gabriel Elijah]

Yes........

:laugh:--correct!

 

[Luke2427]

God chose John because he believed in the death, burial and resurrection of Christ. John put his faith in Christ to deliver him from death.

Jack rejected the gospel.


So simple a child can understand.

You're still stuck o the same step.

"John put his faith in Christ" is just another way to say that John- chose Christ, believed in Christ, humbled himself before God, repented, etc...

Just saying the same thing over and over again in a different way does not answer the question.

Here are your options. I am very interested to see if you will tackle this or ignore it. I figure you will either ignore it or repeat the same thing another way.

John got saved because he had some kind of advantage over Jack or ____________________________________________________.

Either agree with the statement that John had some advantage over Jack or give an alternative in the blank.

Or ignore the post or repeat the fact that John chose Christ using some other words that mean the same thing as John chose Christ.