Are certain political views sinful?

[Steven Yeadon]

You mean your view of Christianity? I'll take that as a complement. Yes, I don't not agree with you on a myriad of issues, including your politics and hyper pacifism.

My view is expressed in post #4.



This is actually the biblical perspective (I don't know this poster on other views, but this was well said). If you find yourself praying only for mercy for murderers, and never for justice for the innocent, you've strayed from the Bible toward political correctness. Yep, definitely more trendy and popular (in today's church), but not biblical.

I've got to interject. Revmitchell is not a pacifist. I have met him in real life. I don't know if he disagrees with my post, which will lead to a discussion if he does. However, let's keep things respectful.

 

[Calminian]

I've got to interject. Revmitchell is not a pacifist. I have met him in real life. I don't know if he disagrees with my post, which will lead to a discussion if he does. However, let's keep things respectful.

A agree, on the respectful part. But I do respectfully disagree. He's a pacifist, at least on this one issue.

 

[Calminian]

Hyper pacifism boy that is the first time I have been called that. One has to be an extremist to call me that.

yeah, hyperbolic. i'll reign that in. you're a pacifist on this one issue.

 

[canadyjd]

As I am. How presumptuous of you to accuse me otherwise.

But I also realize, government is a gift from God to minister to the innocent and punish evil. If you get a chance, read Romans 13. God is very clear, governments and their authorities are from him and have a good purpose.



Hmmm. I'm trying understand why you're saying this to me. The only way it makes sense is if you're saying you don't vote pro-life. Is that what this is all about? Do you vote for pro-life candidates? Or is that depending on government rather than God?

Just curious, do you think the abolitionist movement was a good thing? It was political, and slavery came to an end through political means. Yes, there was a non-political effort to save individual slaves escaping, but the true end came via politics, and was a Christian lead movement. That worked out pretty good, didn't it?

I guess what I'm saying is, why are you so certain there won't be a political solution to abortion?

Your concern is how I vote? This is my point exactly. Your focus is all wrong. You put your trust in politicians. You speak of all the good that government and politicians have done. Very little mention of God's mercy in bringing sinners to salvation. And then you complain your politicians, your government, fails to stop the the slaughter of babies in the womb.

Peace to you

 

[Revmitchell]

yeah, hyperbolic. i'll reign that in. you're a pacifist on this one issue.

Yea I don't wish people to be slaughtered. I'ma pacifist. Good grief

 

[Calminian]

Yea I don't wish people to be slaughtered. I'ma pacifist. Good grief

Yeah, I wish pray for both mercy and justice and I'm ungodly. Good grief!

 

[Calminian]

Your concern is how I vote?

Yes, that's what the thread is about. Is voting just some irrelevant thing for the Christian or does it actually have some moral responsibility and relevance. I believe it does. I believe there are political policies that deeply offend God, and that we Christians should act in every way we can to change them.

Voting is a privilege from God. If you are part of an electoral body, you have governing authority, and Paul said all governing authority is from God. If you then cast this authority away, you're casting away a responsibility God gave you. Again, read Romans 13 before you preach about the meaninglessness of politics.

This is my point exactly. Your focus is all wrong. You put your trust in politicians.

No I trust Paul, who was inspired by the Holy Spirit to write Romans 13. Your beef is with Paul and God, not me.

And then you complain your politicians, your government, fails to stop the the slaughter of babies in the womb.

Guilty as charged. And if the government was coming after you to do you harm, I'd do the same. I'd advocate for the politicians who would protect you, and work to oust the politicians and judges putting your life in danger.

 

[1689Dave]

I normally vote for the lesser of two evils. The party with the least amount of innocent blood on their hands usually gets my vote. It's getting to the place where it's hard to call.

 

[Dave G]

Just a basic question. I hear from some that Christians that say any political view is fair game and should never be judged. Others say quite the contrary (myself included).

I say that involvement with politics is not something that a believer should even bother with, given these commands:

" Thou therefore endure hardness, as a good soldier of Jesus Christ.
4 No man that warreth entangleth himself with the affairs of [this] life; that he may please him who hath chosen him to be a soldier." ( 2 Timothy 2:3-4 )

" Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?
15 and what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel?
16 and what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in [them]; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.
17 Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean [thing]; and I will receive you,
18 and will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty." ( 2 Corinthians 6:17 ).

"Love not the world, neither the things [that are] in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him." ( 1 John 2:15 )

With the above stated, I stopped voting years ago due to being clearly outnumbered.
I also now see that my vote for God's ways really makes no difference, as most people aren't ruled, in their consciences, like God's children are.

The saving grace in all of it is that if God wants a nation to go a certain way, He will raise up politicians that will make and enforce laws that keep the peace and that ultimately results in what He wants, being done.
Since most of mankind is at enmity with Him ( except those of us that are saved ), my own personal conviction is to stay out of their way, pray that God's will be done and for the leaders of my nation, and leave the rest to Him.



However, if any of you feel led to stand against something, then do so.
I can only tell you why I don't get involved anymore, and it has to do with separation.

 

[Calminian]

I say that involvement with politics is not something that a believer should even bother with, given these commands:

" Thou therefore endure hardness, as a good soldier of Jesus Christ.
4 No man that warreth entangleth himself with the affairs of [this] life; that he may please him who hath chosen him to be a soldier." ( 2 Timothy 2:3-4 )

" Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?
15 and what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel?
16 and what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in [them]; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.
17 Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean [thing]; and I will receive you,
18 and will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty." ( 2 Corinthians 6:17 ).

"Love not the world, neither the things [that are] in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him." ( 1 John 2:15 )

With the above stated, I stopped voting years ago due to being clearly outnumbered.
I also now see that my vote for God's ways really makes no difference, as most people aren't ruled, in their consciences, like God's children are.

The saving grace in all of it is that if God wants a nation to go a certain way, He will raise up politicians that will make and enforce laws that keep the peace and that ultimately results in what He wants, being done.
Since most of mankind is at enmity with Him ( except those of us that are saved ), my own personal conviction is to stay out of their way, pray that God's will be done and for the leaders of my nation, and leave the rest to Him.



However, if any of you feel led to stand against something, then do so.
I can only tell you why I don't get involved anymore, and it has to do with separation.

This I can say for certain. The left celebrates guys like you. They know they can't get you to support them, but they're just as happy seeing you on the sidelines. They work very hard to convince you you're doing the noble thing.

 

[HankD]

I say that involvement with politics is not something that a believer should even bother with, given these commands:

...

However, if any of you feel led to stand against something, then do so.
I can only tell you why I don't get involved anymore, and it has to do with separation.

I disagree but to be honest I'm beginning to develop your attitude.

 

[1689Dave]

This I can say for certain. The left celebrates guys like you. They know they can't get you to support them, but they're just as happy seeing you on the sidelines. They work very hard to convince you you're doing the noble thing.

If you align politically, you alienate many you should be trying to reach for Christ. You also misrepresent Christ.

 

[Calminian]

If you align politically, you alienate many you should be trying to reach for Christ. You also misrepresent Christ.

Yeah, but that cuts both ways. There are many people who vote morally, but aren't yet saved. There are millions of non-believers who know abortion is wrong and fight it, but they haven't yet found salvation. By turning your back on the unborn, you've ruined your testimony with them.

But even that's all beside the point. It's God who's saves, not men. The idea that you'd do something immoral to get closer to an unbeliever, runs against everything Scripture teaches.

 

[Dave G]

This I can say for certain. The left celebrates guys like you. They know they can't get you to support them, but they're just as happy seeing you on the sidelines. They work very hard to convince you you're doing the noble thing.

Again, I see it as a question of numbers.

Since God's children are outnumbered by default, what makes you think that the majority of mankind can truly be influenced for good by using their methods to persuade them?

Me being on the sidelines makes absolutely no difference in the final outcome.
That's why I disagree with this statement:

"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing. " - Edmund Burke.


God's will, on the other hand, can influence many things...even evil men's hearts and desires, should He so choose ( Genesis 6:20, Revelation 17:17 ).
Therefore, the only thing necessary for the triumph of evil, is for God to do nothing.

 

[Dave G]

By turning your back on the unborn, you've ruined your testimony with them.

A Christian's testimony does not lead to another person's salvation.

It's God who's saves, not men.

I agree.
That's why I stated the above.

The idea that you'd do something immoral to get closer to an unbeliever, runs against everything Scripture teaches.

I agree.
On the flip side, doing something moral will get one no closer to an unbeliever, either.

That's why I don't believe in "lifestyle evangelism".

 

[Calminian]

Again, I see it as a question of numbers.

Since God's children are outnumbered by default, what makes you think that the majority of mankind can truly be influenced for good by using their methods to persuade them?
Me being on the sidelines makes absolutely no difference in the final outcome.
That's why I disagree with this statement:

"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing. " - Edmund Burke.


God's will, on the other hand, can influence many things...even evil men's hearts and desires, should He so choose ( Genesis 6:20, Revelation 17:17 ).
Therefore, the only thing necessary for the triumph of evil, is for God to do nothing.

Well, I guess then you just sit it out and do nothing. It's your right.

For me, the idea of God is sovereign gives me great encouragement. It makes me want to be a tool in his hand. I agree only God ultimately can do anything. For me that means, I can do great good if I work according to his will.

To put it another way, if the doctrine of sovereignty causes you to sit on the sidelines, maybe you don't really understand it.

 

[Calminian]

To put it another way, if it all depends on man, what's the use? We're going to fail. There's really no reason to work. If it all depends on God, however, then there is no reason not to work, knowing He'll accomplish his will, and knowing he uses men to do it. Belief in God's sovereignty should always result in human action.

 

[canadyjd]

Well, I guess then you just sit it out and do nothing. It's your right.

For me, the idea of God is sovereign gives me great encouragement. It makes me want to be a tool in his hand. I agree only God ultimately can do anything. For me that means, I can do great good if I work according to his will.

To put it another way, if the doctrine of sovereignty causes you to sit on the sidelines, maybe you don't really understand it.

As I stated earlier, it is shameful to attack brothers and sisters in Christ because of politics.

You accuse them of "doing nothing" because they don't believe engaging in politics is the right course. You accuse them of not understanding God's Word or His sovereignty because they believe involvement in politics takes our focus off Christian ministry.

The radical liberal leftists agree with you that the way to spread your beliefs and influence is through the force of the federal government.

Peace to you

 

[Calminian]

As I stated earlier, it is shameful to attack brothers and sisters in Christ because of politics.

Yes, you've made that position clear. I think it's shameful to ignore macro political issue which affect millions. It's amazing to me you can't see the good of the political abolition fight a few (quite a few) decades ago. Would you have stayed on the sidelines for that one as well? You really would have stayed on the sidelines and just did nothing will thousands suffered? That's hard to believe you wouldn't have at least casted your vote for freedom.

You accuse them of "doing nothing" because they don't believe engaging in politics is the right course. You accuse them of not understanding God's Word or His sovereignty because they believe involvement in politics takes our focus off Christian ministry.

You are correct I do. And you're trying to make me ashamed about it, ironically.

The radical liberal leftists agree with you that the way to spread your beliefs and influence is through the force of the federal government.

And they agree with you that you're being noble for staying out of politics and not fighting for the unborn. I think that's worse.

 

[1689Dave]

Yeah, but that cuts both ways. There are many people who vote morally, but aren't yet saved. There are millions of non-believers who know abortion is wrong and fight it, but they haven't yet found salvation. By turning your back on the unborn, you've ruined your testimony with them.

But even that's all beside the point. It's God who's saves, not men. The idea that you'd do something immoral to get closer to an unbeliever, runs against everything Scripture teaches.

But visible party affiliation misrepresents Christ. And there's much more innocent blood being shed by both parties than by abortion alone.