Are Christians able to NOT sin?

[12strings]

This is a spin-off of a related thread, but maybe we can focus a bit more...which of the following is more accurate?:

1. A Christian, once indwelt by the Holy Spirit, will still sometimes choose to sin... but he/she is also "able to not sin" such that it is actually possible to go for a few minutes, at least, maybe even a few hours, without sinning. Every sin is a conscious choice.
-->This person would, by consequence, know true victory over sin, and be immediately aware of ANY sin he/she committed, and knew he/she should repent.

2. Even the best Christian will be plagued by his sinful desires till the day he dies such that nearly every moment he is by his thoughts, attitudes, and neglected duties failing to "Love God with all of his heart" and failing to "do all to the glory of God." He/she therefore sins nearly every moment. This view might even agree that every sin is a conscious choice, but would say that our hearts and minds are so complex that we make hundreds of small choices every minute about where to place priority, and many of these choices put our thoughts of self above our thoughts of God.
-->This person would aim to please God, and battle sin, and even experience real victories over sins in his/her life, but recognize his constant failing at the heart level and so rely moment by moment on the grace of the cross.


Though I have been taught that Christians are "able not to sin" based on Rom. 6. I have come to think that we will still fail in small ways nearly every minute of our lives. So I would be in the #2 camp.

 

[freeatlast]

This is a spin-off of a related thread, but maybe we can focus a bit more...which of the following is more accurate?:

1. A Christian, once indwelt by the Holy Spirit, will still sometimes choose to sin... but he/she is also "able to not sin" such that it is actually possible to go for a few minutes, at least, maybe even a few hours, without sinning. Every sin is a conscious choice.
-->This person would, by consequence, know true victory over sin, and be immediately aware of ANY sin he/she committed, and knew he/she should repent.

2. Even the best Christian will be plagued by his sinful desires till the day he dies such that nearly every moment he is by his thoughts, attitudes, and neglected duties failing to "Love God with all of his heart" and failing to "do all to the glory of God." He/she therefore sins nearly every moment. This view might even agree that every sin is a conscious choice, but would say that our hearts and minds are so complex that we make hundreds of small choices every minute about where to place priority, and many of these choices put our thoughts of self above our thoughts of God.
-->This person would aim to please God, and battle sin, and even experience real victories over sins in his/her life, but recognize his constant failing at the heart level and so rely moment by moment on the grace of the cross.


Though I have been taught that Christians are "able not to sin" based on Rom. 6. I have come to think that we will still fail in small ways nearly every minute of our lives. So I would be in the #2 camp.

Friend I tell you again as a brother. With that kind of doctrine you need to step down from any position where you have influence with other believers in the church. Your belief in this matter are dangerous and wrong as it denies the word of God. You are piling on the backs of men even that which you cannot carry to suggest that we sin just about every moment, and that is simply false. My guess is what you are doing is calling things sin that are not sin and you need to stop that.

 

[Jim1999]

we have our sinful nature until God calls us home. We are saved, we are being saved and we will ultimately be saved. Sinless perfection in this lifetime is not only a dream, it is a nightmare.

Cheers,

Jim

 

[OldRegular]

we have our sinful nature until God calls us home. We are saved, we are being saved and we will ultimately be saved. Sinless perfection in this lifetime is not only a dream, it is a nightmare.

Cheers,

Jim

Jim

Based on my own experience I agree with your statement. However, what does Jesus Christ mean when He says the following:

Matthew 5:48, KJV
Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

 

[MB]

This is a spin-off of a related thread, but maybe we can focus a bit more...which of the following is more accurate?:

1. A Christian, once indwelt by the Holy Spirit, will still sometimes choose to sin... but he/she is also "able to not sin" such that it is actually possible to go for a few minutes, at least, maybe even a few hours, without sinning. Every sin is a conscious choice.
-->This person would, by consequence, know true victory over sin, and be immediately aware of ANY sin he/she committed, and knew he/she should repent.

The Bible does say that those born of God do not sin. This is hard to explain when we have to admit that we all do sin. I believe that spiritually we do not sin but this does not releave us of the responsibility of the sin we do commit physcially. I believe this is why we are instructed to take control of the flesh by training it to comply to our spiritual instructions. I confess that I have failed in this training of my flesh. I still sin Just not as much as I did before I was saved. The reason is that when thoughts of sin enter my mind I catch those thoughts and kick them out of my mind by refusing to entertain these thoughts. Like I said I slip now and then.

2. Even the best Christian will be plagued by his sinful desires till the day he dies such that nearly every moment he is by his thoughts, attitudes, and neglected duties failing to "Love God with all of his heart" and failing to "do all to the glory of God." He/she therefore sins nearly every moment. This view might even agree that every sin is a conscious choice, but would say that our hearts and minds are so complex that we make hundreds of small choices every minute about where to place priority, and many of these choices put our thoughts of self above our thoughts of God.
-->This person would aim to please God, and battle sin, and even experience real victories over sins in his/her life, but recognize his constant failing at the heart level and so rely moment by moment on the grace of the cross.


Though I have been taught that Christians are "able not to sin" based on Rom. 6. I have come to think that we will still fail in small ways nearly every minute of our lives. So I would be in the #2 camp.

I'm in there with you though there are times when nearly every moment doesn't apply. When I'm studying God's Word, Praying, or talking with someone about Jesus. When I'm in Church or simply focused on Jesus.

I think most would have to choose number 2 because I have yet to meet anyone who is able to control self well enough to no longer sin.
MB

 

[MB]

Friend I tell you again as a brother. With that kind of doctrine you need to step down from any position where you have influence with other believers in the church. Your belief in this matter are dangerous and wrong as it denies the word of God. You are piling on the backs of men even that which you cannot carry to suggest that we sin just about every moment, and that is simply false. My guess is what you are doing is calling things sin that are not sin and you need to stop that.

The condemnation of a brother is sin. I believe honesty before men is an indicator of honesty before God. Certainly if perfection were a must. Neither Peter or Thomas would have been apostles.
MB

 

[freeatlast]

The condemnation of a brother is sin. I believe honesty before men is an indicator of honesty before God. Certainly if perfection were a must. Neither Peter or Thomas would have been apostles.
MB

No one suggested perfection is a must for salvation, and neither has anyone been condemned. Admonished yes, but not condemned. You need to learn the difference before you condemn someone.

 

[MB]

No one suggested perfection is a must for salvation, and neither has anyone been condemned. Admonished yes, but not condemned. You need to learn the difference before you condemn someone.

I really wish I could say I'm with out sin. Yet even if I were saying this, it would be a boast of my own accomplishments. Which would make it pride that I even said it, or even had such a thought.
When I was a young Christian I was so busy being ashamed of myself that I could not do what God wanted me to do because I knew my lack of perfection was in the way. I felt that I was an open book and people could see the sin that must have been hanging all over me. The truth is and I now know this was the work of Satan convincing me I wasn't good enough.
Being good enough has nothing to do with doing God's work when none of us are good enough.

I have come to believe that sin and our knowledge that we do sin serves a purpose. It keeps us humble, rather than pridefull. One sin makes us guilty of all sin.
MB

 

[freeatlast]

I really wish I could say I'm with out sin. Yet even if I were saying this, it would be a boast of my own accomplishments. Which would make it pride that I even said it, or even had such a thought.
When I was a young Christian I was so busy being ashamed of myself that I could not do what God wanted me to do because I knew my lack of perfection was in the way. I felt that I was an open book and people could see the sin that must have been hanging all over me. The truth is and I now know this was the work of Satan convincing me I wasn't good enough.
Being good enough has nothing to do with doing God's work when none of us are good enough.

I have come to believe that sin and our knowledge that we do sin serves a purpose. It keeps us humble, rather than pridefull. One sin makes us guilty of all sin.
MB

Sounds like you have found a way to justify your sining in your own mind.
Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.
God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?
Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.
If ye love me, keep my commandments.
If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.

 

[MB]

Sounds like you have found a way to justify your sining in your own mind.
Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.
God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?
Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.
If ye love me, keep my commandments.
If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.

I die daily IOW's I confess it. Don't you?

 

[freeatlast]

I die daily IOW's I confess it. Don't you?

Yes I do die daily, but that does not mean we have to sin daily. Dying daily means I die to self. I give up my desires for the desires of Christ daily just like Christ gave up His desires for the desire of the Father. The difference is He always did it and I don't, but I am working on doing it always instead of finding ways and making excuses of how not to do it. I don't know what IOW means.
.

 

[JesusFan]

Friend I tell you again as a brother. With that kind of doctrine you need to step down from any position where you have influence with other believers in the church. Your belief in this matter are dangerous and wrong as it denies the word of God. You are piling on the backs of men even that which you cannot carry to suggest that we sin just about every moment, and that is simply false. My guess is what you are doing is calling things sin that are not sin and you need to stop that.

You will be asking Apostles paul to live his position as Apostle, as he had the experience of still have to battle daily his sin principle at work in him, and Apostle John, as he sinned after being "Apostilized!"


12 Strings listed from the BIBLE the options for we Christians, so IF you have a problem with them, its with God!

We ALL here believe that Christians need to keep striving to become more Christ like on a daily basis, to become more aware of walking/abiding in Him...

BUT

We should all see from the Bible that we also will and do still sin, and that once convicted/aware of that stae, need to immediatly confess/repent to the Lord to have His cleansing avail to us!

Again, WHO other than Jesus was asaid/shown to have EVER live a sinless life?

Did the Apostles at all?

IF they were not able to do such, how can we ever hope to?

 

[12strings]

Friend I tell you again as a brother. With that kind of doctrine you need to step down from any position where you have influence with other believers in the church. Your belief in this matter are dangerous and wrong as it denies the word of God. You are piling on the backs of men even that which you cannot carry to suggest that we sin just about every moment, and that is simply false. My guess is what you are doing is calling things sin that are not sin and you need to stop that.

I appreciate your personal concern, but I as I do not know you, and believe you to be mistaken on this issue, I will respect the wishes of my senior pastor and other leaders of my church; who I'm fairly certain would agree with me on this issue.

I would still like to hear what it is that I am calling a sin that is not a sin. If Jesus spoke of a command, and even called it the "greatest" of all commandments; and I am not obeying it, how is that not a sin?

 

[freeatlast]

I appreciate your personal concern, but I as I do not know you, and believe you to be mistaken on this issue, I will respect the wishes of my senior pastor and other leaders of my church; who I'm fairly certain would agree with me on this issue.

I would still like to hear what it is that I am calling a sin that is not a sin. If Jesus spoke of a command, and even called it the "greatest" of all commandments; and I am not obeying it, how is that not a sin?

There is only two possibilities. One you are calling things sin that are not sin or you are not a Christian as no Christian practices sin yet you say you sin every moment. If your pastor agrees with you then you need to RUN fast and far from that man. I gave you the passages that show we can and are to stop sinning yet you say you have not done this and in fact according to you, you do it at the same frequency as a lost person if it is every moment. You have a total different testimony then anything the bible says is in a believer, and that is why there are but two possibilities.

You asked this question;
"I would still like to hear what it is that I am calling a sin that is not a sin. If Jesus spoke of a command, and even called it the "greatest" of all commandments; and I am not obeying it, how is that not a sin"


It is sin if you are not obeying it and if not you are not saved. That is all there is to it. However I believe you do obey it and are saved but doing just like the Pharisees and piling loads on the backs of men even you cannot carry.
A Christian's daily life is one of living righteously and no one who is sinning every moment is doing that. We who are saved practice not sinning during our daily walks. 1John 3:10 We do that because we love the Lord above anything else. In the times we sin for that moment our love is not what it ought to be, but that is not our practice and when we confess and repent we return to practicing that love. If a person is not doing this they are not a Christian, but no believer sins every moment as you claim and if your pastor agrees they do I tell you again RUN! I would like to meet this guy with this false teaching. I would have no problem standing in his church and calling him a heretic in front of everyone if he teaches that.

 

[JesusFan]

There is only two possibilities. One you are calling things sin that are not sin or you are not a Christian as no Christian practices sin yet you say you sin every moment. If your pastor agrees with you then you need to RUN fast and far from that man. I gave you the passages that show we can and are to stop sinning yet you say you have not done this and in fact according to you, you do it at the same frequency as a lost person if it is every moment. You have a total different testimony then anything the bible says is in a believer, and that is why there are but two possibilities.

You asked this question;
"I would still like to hear what it is that I am calling a sin that is not a sin. If Jesus spoke of a command, and even called it the "greatest" of all commandments; and I am not obeying it, how is that not a sin"


It is sin if you are not obeying it and if not you are not saved. That is all there is to it. However I believe you do obey it and are saved but doing just like the Pharisees and piling loads on the backs of men even you cannot carry.
A Christian's daily life is one of living righteously and no one who is sinning every moment is doing that. We who are saved practice not sinning during our daily walks. 1John 3:10 We do that because we love the Lord above anything else. In the times we sin for that moment our love is not what it ought to be, but that is not our practice and when we confess and repent we return to practicing that love. If a person is not doing this they are not a Christian, but no believer sins every moment as you claim and if your pastor agrees they do I tell you again RUN! I would like to meet this guy with this false teaching. I would have no problem standing in his church and calling him a heretic in front of everyone if he teaches that.

Another viable option might be that you constructed a theology/doctrine of sinless perfection that cannot be proven/supported in the Bible?

especially misinterpreting both Apostles paul in Romans 7, John in 1 John concerning sin/flesh/ and Christian?

 

[freeatlast]

Another viable option might be that you constructed a theology/doctrine of sinless perfection that cannot be proven/supported in the Bible?

especially misinterpreting both Apostles paul in Romans 7, John in 1 John concerning sin/flesh/ and Christian?

All sin is a choice. We do not have to choose to sin.
1Cor 10:13
There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God [is] faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear [it].

 

[JesusFan]

All sin is a choice. We do not have to choose to sin.
1Cor 10:13
There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God [is] faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear [it].

We can all choose not to sin, sin has no domenion over us, IF we are in Christ BUT
Key to that is to deny the flesh/make sure it does not reassert itself over you, and abide in Christ/filled with HS!

You CAN still choose to sin, to yield to the desires of the flesh....

Those are still your enemies...

World/Devil/Flesh

deny any of that, and you are calling the Bible to be "error!"

 

[freeatlast]

We can all choose not to sin, sin has no domenion over us, IF we are in Christ BUT
Key to that is to deny the flesh/make sure it does not reassert itself over you, and abide in Christ/filled with HS!

You CAN still choose to sin, to yield to the desires of the flesh....

Those are still your enemies...

World/Devil/Flesh

deny any of that, and you are calling the Bible to be "error!"

I have always said sin is a choice so what are you talking about?.

 

[JesusFan]

I have always said sin is a choice so what are you talking about?.

IF a person was actually able to attain "sinless perfection" in this life, wouldn't they HAVE to not even have to make a choice to sin or not at all?

Wouldn't that mean they would be "jesus" at that stage, sinless and perfect, no need to be glorified or improved upon?

 

[freeatlast]

IF a person was actually able to attain "sinless perfection" in this life, wouldn't they HAVE to not even have to make a choice to sin or not at all?

Wouldn't that mean they would be "jesus" at that stage, sinless and perfect, no need to be glorified or improved upon?

First sinless perfection is your words not mine. Second I believe some have lived their Christian life with no sin. The thief on the cross for one, but you reject it because it gives you an excuse to sin instead of stopping your sin. No one has to sin. All sin is a choice and God will not allow us to be tempted above what we can endure.