Are God's Commandments impossible to Keep?

[convicted1]

And furthermore......

Luke 16:16 The law and the prophets were until John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it.


We are now under the Grace Covenant that Jesus made by shedding His blood on the cross. Again, the Law was our schoolmaster(teacher) that brought us unto, not into Christ. Grace is the only thing that can, and does, bring us into Christ. The Law was a curse, and those who died under the Law, looking towards that blessed hope, died in faith, looking towards that Promise God had told them was to come. So they died looking to the cross.

 

[Luke2427]

Thank you Salty as this is a much needed discussion. We have far too long made excuses for our sins by claiming we cannot keep the commandments.
I know of no rational parent that would give their child chores that they could not possible carry out and then discipline them for failing. Yet most of the church today accuses God fo doing just that. That means we think more of ourselves then we do God as we live by higher standards.

To hold a doctrine that we cannot keep the commandments is to suggest that we have a God who holds us accountable for things we cannot do. The truth is we have been commanded to keep them and we can, but we make willful choices to not keep them. There is no person alive who can name even one sin they have ever committed that they had to do. Every sin is a willful choice to go against the Lord.

It is not that we cannot keep them, it is that we choose not to. Until we can accept this truth we will never see just how sinful our hearts really are. I am afraid that we think too much of ourselves and too little of God.

There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God [is] faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear [it].

This is pelagianism.

The idea that sinful men have in themselves the ability to keep God's commandments is an ancient heresy that the universal church condemned for hundreds of years.

The Bible is plain that man cannot keep the commandments.

The orthodox church has always believed that he cannot.

It is dangerous to purport otherwise.

 

[freeatlast]

This is pelagianism.

The idea that sinful men have in themselves the ability to keep God's commandments is an ancient heresy that the universal church condemned for hundreds of years.

The Bible is plain that man cannot keep the commandments.

The orthodox church has always believed that he cannot.

It is dangerous to purport otherwise.

Your assertion is as usual false and the bible does not teach we cannot keep the commandments. You clearly have no understanding of pelagianism or you are willfully and falsely attributing this to pelagianism when you know it is not. Either way you are wrong.

This has nothing to do with getting saved. This is about what is possible from the standpoint of choice. The commandments can be kept but man chooses not to do it. Every sin is a willful choice.

 

[JesusFan]

NO they all can be kept all the time. God did not give commands that cannot be kept. We choose not to keep them. All sin is willful rebellion.

was the Apostle paul wrong when he said that in the Cross God nailed ALL of the law ordinances/rules/regulations that wewre set against us, and now we are under the Grace of the Cross?

 

[freeatlast]

was the Apostle paul wrong when he said that in the Cross God nailed ALL of the law ordinances/rules/regulations that wewre set against us, and now we are under the Grace of the Cross?

I assume you are talking abut Col 2:14
Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;

It is not about the bible or Paul being wrong. it is about you being wrong in your understand of the passage. The passage is speaking of the law having the ability to condemn us and it no longer does. That does not mean we are not to keep the commandments. In fact if a person is not keeping them and claim to be a Christian scripture says they are a liar.

He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

Every sin we do is a willful choice to disobey. They can be kept.

 

[Amy.G]

Amy actually what the Lord said is that if a man looks on a woman to lust for her he is guilty of adultery. The passage is a purpose clause. In other words the person in question is literally seeking out women to look at to satisfy his lust. This is not a passing woman who causes a passing thought. This seeking to look can be controlled. We do not have to sin. We sin because we choose to.

Brother, I wasn't even talking about lust when I posted about our "desires and thoughts". There are plenty of sinful thoughts that go through my mind everyday that have absolutely nothing to do with lust. I don't like it, don't plan it, they just pop up. I ask God to forgive me each time. I still live in sinful flesh and it is a constant battle whether in word, deed, or thought.
My heart's desire is to please God, but thanks be to Him that I have an advocate when I fail.

 

[freeatlast]

Brother, I wasn't even talking about lust when I posted about our "desires and thoughts". There are plenty of sinful thoughts that go through my mind everyday that have absolutely nothing to do with lust. I don't like it, don't plan it, they just pop up. I ask God to forgive me each time. I still live in sinful flesh and it is a constant battle whether in word, deed, or thought.
My heart's desire is to please God, but thanks be to Him that I have an advocate when I fail.

Amy the fact that you have them does not mean they cannot be controlled. The commandments can be kept.

 

[saved by grace]

This is pelagianism.

The idea that sinful men have in themselves the ability to keep God's commandments is an ancient heresy that the universal church condemned for hundreds of years.

The Bible is plain that man cannot keep the commandments.

The orthodox church has always believed that he cannot.

It is dangerous to purport otherwise.

Of course Christians can keep the commandments. With God's grace all things are possible. Apart from His grace nothing is possible.
How could Paul say "Keeping the commandments of God is what counts" 1 Cor. 7:19 if keeping them is impossible?

The "law" that Paul was opposing was the Mosaic law NOT the law of grace given to us by Christ.

"Now I Paul say that if you receive circumcision, Christ will be of no advantage to you....You are severed from Christ you who would be justified by the law." Galatians 5:2-6

If it is impossible to keep the commandments how can John say:
"He who says "I know him" but disobeys his commandments ia a liar." 1 John 2:4

How could John say : For this is the love of God that we keep his commandments. And his commandments are not burdensome." 1 John 5:3

God will give us the grace to do what He commands

 

[JesusFan]

Of course Christians can keep the commandments. With God's grace all things are possible. Apart from His grace nothing is possible.
How could Paul say "Keeping the commandments of God is what counts" 1 Cor. 7:19 if keeping them is impossible?

The "law" that Paul was opposing was the Mosaic law NOT the law of grace given to us by Christ.

"Now I Paul say that if you receive circumcision, Christ will be of no advantage to you....You are severed from Christ you who would be justified by the law." Galatians 5:2-6

If it is impossible to keep the commandments how can John say:
"He who says "I know him" but disobeys his commandments ia a liar." 1 John 2:4

How could John say : For this is the love of God that we keep his commandments. And his commandments are not burdensome." 1 John 5:3

God will give us the grace to do what He commands

Again, we are NOT under the Law as they were under it before Christ came!

When the messiah came to earth, he kept the law for me, on my behalf, so that I have before God His perfect rightousness and standing!

the BIble in NT NEVER says keep thelaw, or that we can perfectly keep it, instead says to walk in the Sopirit, not our flesh, and thus fulfill law of Christ by HS enabling!

We will still sin, as we deal with a sinful nature dwelling within us until weget glorified!

 

[freeatlast]

Again, we are NOT under the Law as they were under it before Christ came!

When the messiah came to earth, he kept the law for me, on my behalf, so that I have before God His perfect rightousness and standing!

the BIble in NT NEVER says keep thelaw, or that we can perfectly keep it, instead says to walk in the Sopirit, not our flesh, and thus fulfill law of Christ by HS enabling!

We will still sin, as we deal with a sinful nature dwelling within us until weget glorified!

And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

If we are not commandment keepers we are not Christians.

 

[JesusFan]

And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

If we are not commandment keepers we are not Christians.

How many of them, and for how long?

Will we EVER get to the place where we have asssurance we have done enough long enough?

WHICH Commandments do we keep?

Those in law of OT, or those to Love the Lord and neighbor as ourselves?

Are we keeping the Law to show love for god, to obey Him, or to prove/keep salvation?


So it saved by grace. kept by the law?

Woudn't that be a direct contridiction to galatians and Gospel of Grace?

 

[JesusFan]

This is pelagianism.

The idea that sinful men have in themselves the ability to keep God's commandments is an ancient heresy that the universal church condemned for hundreds of years.

The Bible is plain that man cannot keep the commandments.

The orthodox church has always believed that he cannot.

It is dangerous to purport otherwise.

just finished 'skimming" through Colosians Chapter 3, and amazed that the Apostle paul NEVER referred to keeping the law as the way to stay with God!

Instead, referenced yielding/walking in the power/person of the HS, and that will produce victory over sin in our lives!

put to death bu active choice our "old nature" and submit to God and live in New nature, by walking in the HS!


seems that Apostle paul does not know about Christianity where we keep the law and try our best to stay in the law!

 

[saved by grace]

=JesusFan;1730394]Again, we are NOT under the Law as they were under it before Christ came

!
We are not under the law of Torah. We are under the law of grace where there is forgiveness. THere was no forgiveness under the law of Torah

When the messiah came to earth, he kept the law for me, on my behalf, so that I have before God His perfect rightousness and standing!

Christ fulfilled the law by giving us the gift of grace. He didn't abolish it.

the BIble in NT NEVER says keep the law, or that we can perfectly keep it, instead says to walk in the Sopirit, not our flesh, and thus fulfill law of Christ by HS enabling!

Jesus was asked "what must I do to have eternal life." Jesus said "keep the commandments." Because we are under the law of grace and not the law of Torah, we can be forgiven for not "perfectly" keeping the moral law that Jesus gives us in Matthew 19:18-19 and Paul gives us in Galatians 5:19 and I Cor. 6:9-10.
If we do fall we must confess and repent.

We will still sin, as we deal with a sinful nature dwelling within us until we get glorified!

If you still sin and are giving in to your sinful nature then you are NOT saved. You just think you are. You have deceived yourself.
That is exactly what Paul is saying "For the mind that is set on the flesh is hostile to God. It does not submit to God's law, indeed it cannot and those who are in the flesh cannot please God."

Keeping the commandments is a "work" of God's grace. Faith without works of grace is dead. ( James 2:17) You are not saved with a dead faith. If you "can't " keep the commandments then you do not have saving faith and you will stand before God at your judgment and He will say " I never knew you."

 

[convicted1]

This is pelagianism.

The idea that sinful men have in themselves the ability to keep God's commandments is an ancient heresy that the universal church condemned for hundreds of years.

The Bible is plain that man cannot keep the commandments.

The orthodox church has always believed that he cannot.

It is dangerous to purport otherwise.

I do not know if what FAL states is Pelagianism or not, but if you think he will buy what you selling, good luck! A saved person still has to contend with their flesh. Apostle Paul stated that in the flesh dwelleth no good thing, so we can not keep the commandments. Now, when we disobey God, we have an Advocate with the Father, Christ Jesus the Lord, Who pleads our case to the Father!! We are now under the Grace Covenant, and not under the Law.

I do not need God's Grace every day, I need It every second of my life!!! I need it when I wake up, I need it when I go to sleep. I need it when I am on the road, but most of all I need it when He calls me out of this world!!

 

[David Lamb]

And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

If we are not commandment keepers we are not Christians.

Yet Jesus said that the first and greatest commandment is "You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, with all your mind and with all your strength." (Mark 12.30). Do any of us dare claim that we have kept that one, or even that we could keep it?

And the same John who wrote the words you quoted about keeping God's commandments also wrote in 1 John 1.8:

If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
​

 

[convicted1]

Yet Jesus said that the first and greatest commandment is "You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, with all your mind and with all your strength." (Mark 12.30). Do any of us dare claim that we have kept that one, or even that we could keep it?

And the same John who wrote the words you quoted about keeping God's commandments also wrote in 1 John 1.8:

If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
​

Bingo!! Badda bing!! :thumbs::thumbs::thumbs::thumbs:

 

[Amy.G]

!

If you still sin and are giving in to your sinful nature then you are NOT saved. You just think you are. You have deceived yourself.
That is exactly what Paul is saying "For the mind that is set on the flesh is hostile to God. It does not submit to God's law, indeed it cannot and those who are in the flesh cannot please God."

Maybe you should read ALL of Paul's writings.

Romans 7
14 For we know that the law is spiritual, but I am carnal, sold under sin. 15 For what I am doing, I do not understand. For what I will to do, that I do not practice; but what I hate, that I do. 16 If, then, I do what I will not to do, I agree with the law that it is good. 17 But now, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells in me. 18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh) nothing good dwells; for to will is present with me, but how to perform what is good I do not find. 19 For the good that I will to do, I do not do; but the evil I will not to do, that I practice. 20 Now if I do what I will not to do, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells in me.

I guess you think Paul wasn't saved.

 

[freeatlast]

Maybe you should read ALL of Paul's writings.

Romans 7
14 For we know that the law is spiritual, but I am carnal, sold under sin. 15 For what I am doing, I do not understand. For what I will to do, that I do not practice; but what I hate, that I do. 16 If, then, I do what I will not to do, I agree with the law that it is good. 17 But now, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells in me. 18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh) nothing good dwells; for to will is present with me, but how to perform what is good I do not find. 19 For the good that I will to do, I do not do; but the evil I will not to do, that I practice. 20 Now if I do what I will not to do, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells in me.

I guess you think Paul wasn't saved.

Amy, Paul was not talking about himself after salvation. He kept the law prior to salvation (he said he was blameless)
Phl. 3:6 Concerning zeal, persecuting the church; touching the righteousness which is in the law, blameless.
So now are you saying that once he got saved he turned to sinning? No sister that did not happen. He kept the law while under the law so he was not now practicing sin after salvation when he had the Spirit.
Also we know this;
1John 2:4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
The commandments can be kept we just choose to break them. All sin is a willful choice.

 

[freeatlast]

Yet Jesus said that the first and greatest commandment is "You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, with all your mind and with all your strength." (Mark 12.30). Do any of us dare claim that we have kept that one, or even that we could keep it?

And the same John who wrote the words you quoted about keeping God's commandments also wrote in 1 John 1.8:

If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
​

Hello David. You are taking a passage out of context in 1 John. The book was written to combat the teachings of the Gnostics. They taught that they never sinned in their entire life. John is answering that with 1:8. That passage is not saying we cannot keep the commandments. In fact if we don't and claim to be Christians we are liars according to the bible.
He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

 

[saved by grace]

=David Lamb;1730482]Yet Jesus said that the first and greatest commandment is "You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, with all your mind and with all your strength." (Mark 12.30).

Do any of us dare claim that we have kept that one, or even that we could keep it?

We will be able to keep the "first and greatest" commandment when we are completely sanctified which will not happen until we are in heaven. However as Hebrews states we are to "strive for peace with all men and for the holiness without which no one will see God " Hebrews 12:14
To say it is "impossible" to keep the commandments is un-biblical.

And the same John who wrote the words you quoted about keeping God's commandments also wrote in 1 John 1.8:

If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
​

So is John contradicting himself? Of course not! None of us are able to love God with our whole heart, soul and strength while still in our sinful nature but that doesn't mean we can't completely refrain from adultery, fornication, lying, stealting, coveting etc. Not all sin is deadly. See 1 John 5:17