Are Immunizations unhealthy and sinful?

[Karen]

Originally posted by Paul33:
Well, this was unfortunately the response that I thougt I would get with this topic.................
But go ahead, believe what you will. Some of you will research down to the last detail the car you will buy, but without thinking, you inject your kids with poison in violation of God's Word?

Dear Paul33,
You have presented a logical false dilemma here. To do differently than you is to show that we care very little about our children and that we sin big-time and thoughtlessly.
I am old enough to remember. And I have studied it. You statistically get away with your family's choice because most people do get vaccinated. And there is honestly no guarantee that you won't get these diseases.

In my family, there were numerous times several people in the same household died within several days. One time was in 1859 in IL on the farm. Several died of smallpox in a week. They led the lifestyle you have.
My grandmother had diphtheria and almost died. My grandfather had major complications from mumps. My father had polio and was in an iron lung for a while. Measles hurt my eyes when I was six. My mother had mumps when she was six months pregnant. I went to school with kids in polio leg braces.
My family was agreed on the idea that antibiotics and immunizations were a blessing. And I, therefore, had every one available, as have my kids.

Karen

 

[Karen]

Would you want to go to a restaurant in which the workers have not had hepatitis vaccines?

We can probably all day long throw out our own examples of doctors who believe this or that.
I am acquainted with several doctors who regularly travel overseas in medical mission teams. God bless them!
They make sure all their shots are current before they go. That includes unusual ones like yellow fever and dengue (sp?) fever. They administer vaccines to the people in their clinics. It has cut down on the disease rate and mortality rate in those areas.

Karen

 

[Paul33]

My friend almost lost his twin girls when they were immunized. Children's hospital in Milwaukee was their home for several weeks as they recovered from mysterious illnesses. Of course, a few days earlier they had been immunized.

My aunt suffered from polio. I understand the concern. But "real" research has shown that immunizations didn't bring about the decline of polio, other factors did. And since people were being vaccinated for polio, the symptoms of polio that folks were still getting were reclassified. It was now called spiral menengitis, after all, it couldn't be polio, they had been vaccinated.

Hey everyone, alleged results aside. Is it right for Christians to put foreign animal proteins directly into their children's blood streams?

 

[Ed Edwards]

Originally posted by Paul33:
Google:
Type in the name of your state and the words "state statutes."

You can find out what your one state requires.

I did a goggle on this: //"state statutes" Oklahoma immunization//

Here is a map of States where you can compare the
reading of those States statuates
which comply with Federal immunization standards.

http://www.gwumc.edu/sphhs/healthpolicy/immunization/state_immun_map.html

Obviusly the federal government is requiring compliance of
the states.

BTW, i was in Texas when i lined up at school to take polio shots.

Does anybody want to talk about state compliance
with Federal ID laws?

 

[Karen]

Originally posted by Paul33:
.........
Hey everyone, alleged results aside. Is it right for Christians to put foreign animal proteins directly into their children's blood streams?

Yes. No Scripture forbids it. It is done to benefit the health of the child. Many Scriptures admonish us to care for our families.

Is it sin to inject pain medicine or anaesthesia directly into the blood stream of a person having a baby for pain relief, or for surgery? How about blood transfusions?
No, it's not a sidetrack. You keep referring to contacting the blood stream directly as a problem, per se.

Karen

 

[Sularis]

Hrm - lets see Im a fat young man choking back the sugar and vaccines baby - I guess Im supposed to be dead

but the lettuce munching - super naturalist youngish mother I knew late 30's bit the big one. And she was the match of any handground organic wheat nutball

Oh I'll agree that a lot of vaccines are very poor - but guess what VACCINES ARENT SUPPOSED TO BE 100% EFFECTIVE DISEASE STOPPERS!

Because guess what - the bloody job of a vaccine is to teach your body how to fight the disease off itself. NOT TO STOP the actual disease itself. Thats your body's job!

Hrm and lets look at what vaccines usually are. They are minute doses of usually some related disease in a small quantity that yer body should be able to fight off - but then again if your immunities are lousy - you will get the disease itself. Hence one of the exemptions that exist in at least 3 state laws, and in Canada, where if a doctor says this guy has lousy white cells - you inject him - you might kill him. WHICH A RESPONSIBLE PARENT SHOULD REASONABLY KNOW BY THE AGE OF 7. Since the first round of vaccinations should give you a BIG clue

I've suffered huge [snipped word] side effects after being injected - but you know what - this fat sugar swilling man - is in generally better health then you organic swillers whereever I go because I dont expect bloody miracles from medicine - thats not its job - surprisingly I think miracles=God not miracles=medicine

Oh and as to that link - that author is a well the word twit comes to mind

the author even admits that vaccines helped eliminate a disease FASTER then if then had been no vaccine. Call me crazy but no disease faster better then no disease slower. But hey maybe the author likes pain and suffering - I know everyone else does

As to states law - yep yer right you can object and not have yer kid immunized - but guess what as a sidenote it also states that if the kid is hosed immunity-wise then short term suspensions 10 days can be in order.

They are complaining about a vaccination for a disease which according to the author we havent seen since 1949 in Texas.

Gee we're getting vaccinated and no one is dying of that disease. Now while it doesnt necessarily mean that the vaccinations are the cause of the disease's disappearance - One could reasonably speculate that it's not an unreasonable theory.

Lets not even get the fact that the author discounts childrens' deaths because well that would skew the death percentages. Darn kids dying - mess with the author's viewpoints! How dare they. Now they'll just have to be ignored!

Oh oh and the small pox in India - gee if the conditions are the same for the disease to arise in the first place - Logic dictates that the same bloody disease will come back I refer to the authors mention of the 5-10 year cycle in Pakistan - but yet somehow this disease without changing any conditions except vaccination has been eliminated in India. Gee this author aint very smart

We all know and admit unsanitary conditions create diseases - we'd all be better off if we got rid of that first - but since that aint going to happen we have a poor second choice - vaccinations

Yeah lets all overdose on Vitamin C nothing BAD can happen if you have too MUCH Vitamin C!

And this is on a doctor's webpage - please oh please dont edit out the word moron - cause this author so rightfully is.

[ May 14, 2005, 06:53 PM: Message edited by: dianetavegia ]

 

[Ed Edwards]

Paul33: "And since people were being vaccinated for polio, the symptoms of polio that folks were still getting were reclassified. It was now called spiral menengitis, after all, it couldn't be polio, they had been vaccinated."

Polio is by definition, a viral disease.
Spiral menengitis is by defintion, the bacterial
form of menengitis. Polio is viral; spiral
menengitis is bacterial. Unless viruses and
bacteria are the same (and they aren't) -
your statement is in error.

 

[dianetavegia]

Paul33, many of us older folk have watched, over the decades as people such as yourself, embrace certain fads and then see them later turn aside from such fads.

Quiverfull is one example. New Christians will go hog wild over something as silly as ridding their home of any artwork such as a wooden duck decoy or wrought iron butterfly on a garden fence.

Your anger at us for not accepting your conviction is misspent. Don't vaccinate your kids! Just keep them away from mine.

 

[Paul33]

Why were OT saints forbidden to drink the blood of animals? Is there a connection to what we're talking about?

 

[Ed Edwards]

http://www.cdc.gov/nip/publications/VIS/vis-IPV.pdf

says (bolding from the source):

"A 1916 polio epidemic in the United States
killed 6,000 people and paralyzed 27,000 more.
In the early 1950's there were more than
20,000 cases of polio each year. Polio
vaccination was begun in 1955.
By 1960 the number of cases had dropped to
about 3,000 and by 1979 there were only about 10.
The success of polio vaccinations in the
U.S. and other countries sparked a world-wide
effort to elilminate polio."

2005-1965= 40 years times 20,000
cases per year = 800,000. Kindly show
800,000 cases of BAD POLIO VACCINE.
5 have been shown so far, only lacking 799,995
left, rounded to 800,000.

 

[Paul33]

Diane,

I'm not angry. Amused, yes. Angry, no.

What's funny, Diane, is that if immunizations work, why are you afraid of my kids being near yours?

 

[Paul33]

Walene James, Immunization: The Reality Behind the Myth (South Hadley, MA: Bergin and Garvey, 1988).

Part 1: Deprogramming

Chapter 1: The Tyranny of What Everyone Knows

Chapter 2: Are Immunizations Harmless?

Chapter 3: Are Immunizations Effective?

Chapter 4: Creating Natural Immunity

Some of you need to read a little bit more! This is a fascinating book.

God forbid Moses to teach the Israelites the medical practices of the Egyptians! Today, we practice the world's wisdom and inject our kids with toxic poisons!

 

[dianetavegia]

Originally posted by Paul33:
Why were OT saints forbidden to drink the blood of animals? Is there a connection to what we're talking about?

Good grief. Maybe what YOU'RE talking about.

I thought only Jehovah's Witnesses were into this. Would you refuse your child a transfusion to save his or her life?

My 'children' include young grandchildren who have not had their whole series of immunizations due to age. Because of that, your sick children could cause my grandbaby to get Whooping Cough, etc. Nick will get his final set of shots at the age of 11, in December.

 

[Paul33]

From James, Immunization, 26-27.

"During the 1962 Congressional Hearings on HR 10541, Dr. Bernard Greenberg, head of the Department of Biostatistics of the University of North Carolina School of Public Health, testified that not only did polio increase substantially (50 percent from 1957 to 1958 and 80 percent from 1958 to 1959) after the introduction of mass and frequently compulsory immunization programs, but statistics were manipulated and statements made by the Public Health Service to give the opposite impression."

"For instance, in 1957 a spokesman for the North Carolina Health Department made glowing claims for the efficacy of the Salk vaccine, showing how polio steadily decreased from 1953 to 1957. His figures were challenged by Dr. Fred Klenner who pointed out that it wasn't until 1955 that a single person in the state received a polio vaccine injection. Even then injections were administered on a very limited basis because of the number of polio cases resulting from the vaccine. It wasn't until 1956 'that polio vaccinations assumed inspiring proportions.' The 61 percent drop in polio cases in 1954 was credited to the Salk vaccine when it wasn't even in the state! By 1957 polio was on the increase."

 

[Paul33]

Correction:

I've used the term spiral meningitis. I meant to say viral or aseptic meningitis.

 

[Paul33]

No Diane,

You misunderstood. I'm not talking about blood transfusions.

Why were OT saints not allowed to drink the blood of animals? What was in the blood that could cause problems for the Israelites?

Drinking raw blood was forbidden. And yet this blood, in order to cause problems would have to go through the kidneys and liver and into the blood stream. Today, we bypass the kidneys and liver and inject poisons directly into our children's blood stream.

 

[Paul33]

There are studies upon studies showing that immunized children are the ones getting measles, whooping cough, etc. (James, Immunization, 29-30).

Diane, it looks like I need to keep my kids away from your grandkids!

 

[gopchad]

No offense to Paul33, et.al., but you all are kooks. God has blessed man with knowledge, man applies said knowledge for good, man creates vaccine. Seems simple enough. BTW, No problem if you don't want to immunize, my kids are, and are the picture of health.

BTW, I also admit that vaccines do not always work, I was vaccinated for measles, guess what, I got measles. Oh, well. Disease is the result of sin, I've sinned, therefore I deserve a few along the way.

Just my $0.02

Chad

 

[Paul33]

Chad!

Great to hear from you. You prove James' point in her book Immunization, and then call me a kook!

Ignorance truly is bliss!

God has blessed man with knowledge! I agree. Now why don't you read Walene James' book and get back to me!

I submit that the "kook" is the one who won't read, study, and learn when challenged to rethink his/her position.

 

[Ed Edwards]

Originally posted by dianetavegia:
My 'children' include young grandchildren who have not had their whole series of immunizations due to age. Because of that, your sick children could cause my grandbaby to get Whooping Cough, etc. Nick will get his final set of shots at the age of 11, in December.

Amen, Sister Dianetavegia -- Preach it!