-
Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.
Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!
Are Immunizations unhealthy and sinful?
- Thread starter Paul33
- Start date
T
TexasSky
Guest
Actually,
Ed isn't wrong.
There are exceptions to every law.
A broad statement refers to what the standard is, not the exception.
Ed was correct.
Ed isn't wrong.
There are exceptions to every law.
A broad statement refers to what the standard is, not the exception.
Ed was correct.
D
dianetavegia
Guest
Using MSN I got 913 hits and one of the first is to this site. http://www.1world.org/
http://www.eaglelife.com/testimonials.html
http://www.eaglelife.com/testimonials.html
WALENE RESPONDS:
Ed Edwards
<img src=/Ed.gif>
Amen, Sister TexasSky -- Preach it!
(and: Thank you)
I said: "Walene James is a new age writer ... "
IT is said of her that:
//Her earlier book, Handbook for Educating in the New Age, was published in 1977.//
go here:
http://www.questia.com/PM.qst?a=o&d=28019800
and pick at the lower left:
ABOUT THE AUTHOR
you will find the quote on that page
By her choice of book titles, i feel she
considers herself as "New Age".
I understand this may not be a relgious
New Age but a political New Age, or maybe
not?
Back to Moses.
Did God teach Moses that disease can "strike" anybody because of bacteria/viruses (germs) or did God teach Moses that disease is built by unhealthy conditions?
Do germs cause disease or does disease produce germs?
The laws given to Moses were about sanitation, cleanliness, health, diet, and well-being. And if they followed God's laws, God would prevent them from getting the diseases of the Egyptians.
Therefore, the Bible seems to teach the cellular theory of disease as opposed to the germ theory of disease. See James, Immunization, 65.
The Bible teaches that in order to prevent disease we need to create health by living according to his laws.
Germ theory teaches that in order to prevent disease we need to "build defenses" against disease that can strike anybody at any time.
Immunization is built on germ theory, and contradicts the laws given to Moses by God.
Did God teach Moses that disease can "strike" anybody because of bacteria/viruses (germs) or did God teach Moses that disease is built by unhealthy conditions?
Do germs cause disease or does disease produce germs?
The laws given to Moses were about sanitation, cleanliness, health, diet, and well-being. And if they followed God's laws, God would prevent them from getting the diseases of the Egyptians.
Therefore, the Bible seems to teach the cellular theory of disease as opposed to the germ theory of disease. See James, Immunization, 65.
The Bible teaches that in order to prevent disease we need to create health by living according to his laws.
Germ theory teaches that in order to prevent disease we need to "build defenses" against disease that can strike anybody at any time.
Immunization is built on germ theory, and contradicts the laws given to Moses by God.
D
dianetavegia
Guest
My doctor's coffee cup has I love Jesus written in red.
Ed Edwards
<img src=/Ed.gif>
Amen, Sister Dianetavaga -- You go girl!
It seems that you are basing your spiritual teachings on this matter on a New Age teacher rather than the Bible???Originally posted by Paul33:
Thanks for documenting sites concerning James' religious/political new age views.
Again, that being acknowledged, what does that have to do with research? Many physicians are evolutionists and/or materialists, but I don't see you running away from them.
Anecdotal evidence.
You guys are funny. I didn't say all doctors, I didn't say most doctors, I said many doctors.
Immunizations are produced by companies who do not have a biblical worldview about life or disease.
I will ask it again. Did God teach Moses that disease can strike anyone at anytime? Or did God teach Moses that disease strikes those who fail to create the conditions of health by disobeying my laws ( laws of sanitation, etc.)?
No answers to this question yet. Why is that?
Because the basis of immunization as developed acccording to the germ theory of disease is contradictory to God's Word!!!
You guys are funny. I didn't say all doctors, I didn't say most doctors, I said many doctors.
Immunizations are produced by companies who do not have a biblical worldview about life or disease.
I will ask it again. Did God teach Moses that disease can strike anyone at anytime? Or did God teach Moses that disease strikes those who fail to create the conditions of health by disobeying my laws ( laws of sanitation, etc.)?
No answers to this question yet. Why is that?
Because the basis of immunization as developed acccording to the germ theory of disease is contradictory to God's Word!!!
No, the points that James brings out about the celluar theory of disease is in line with the laws of Moses, whether she knows it or not.
But you are basing your views on immunization from the germ theory of disease which contradicts Moses. God specifically told Moses that disease will not strike them if they obey his commands. The germ theory teaches that disease can strike anyone anytime regardless of how one lives in light of God's laws.
We eat alot of unhealthy foods and get ill because of it. Practicing Seventh Day Adventists who eat according to the laws of Moses have the longest life spans in America and are generally free of disease.
But you are basing your views on immunization from the germ theory of disease which contradicts Moses. God specifically told Moses that disease will not strike them if they obey his commands. The germ theory teaches that disease can strike anyone anytime regardless of how one lives in light of God's laws.
We eat alot of unhealthy foods and get ill because of it. Practicing Seventh Day Adventists who eat according to the laws of Moses have the longest life spans in America and are generally free of disease.
StraightAndNarrow
Active Member
Where do these attacks on modern science end?
Until the 1960s most conflicts in which parents refused medical treatment involved:
bullet Christian Scientists who deny the existence of disease, and have set up a parallel system of treatment using Christian Science practitioners.
bullet Jehovah's witnesses who refuse to accept blood transfusions.
J. Gordon Melton, director of the Institute for the Study of American Religion, was interviewed on this topic by ABC News duirng 2002-OCT. He said that since the 1960s, there have been increasing numbers of members of other denominations who have been charged with crimes for turning to prayer rather than medicine for their kids. 16 These are often members of Charismatic Christian groups. They emphasize the power of the Holy Spirit and point to certain scriptures, notably from Acts and Paul's epistles. Being from conservative Christian denominations, many believe that God inspired the authors of the bible to write text that is free of errors -- inerrant. Certain texts in the Bible promise healing to believers who pray, or go through certain rituals. They are driven by their religious beliefs to trust prayer -- perhaps in place of medical assistance.
I was operated on a year ago for an aortic aneurysm. If I had refused the aneurysm would have burst and I would have died. My twin brother was operated on for the same reason. A close cousin of ours wasn't as lucky. His wasn't discovered and he died at age 50. This wasn't God's wrath being visited upon me. It was an hereditary medical condition and it was resolved by a skilled surgeon. Oh, both of us were prayed for during ourm hospital stay and convalescence. I am grateful for that. God also could have chosen to take me home.
I've heard on this web site about how depression is really demonic possession and now that germs (bacteria and viruses) don't cause disease because that contradicts the Bible. These ideas are simply not consistent with our experience. Are we headed for a second period of the Dark Ages?
Until the 1960s most conflicts in which parents refused medical treatment involved:
bullet Christian Scientists who deny the existence of disease, and have set up a parallel system of treatment using Christian Science practitioners.
bullet Jehovah's witnesses who refuse to accept blood transfusions.
J. Gordon Melton, director of the Institute for the Study of American Religion, was interviewed on this topic by ABC News duirng 2002-OCT. He said that since the 1960s, there have been increasing numbers of members of other denominations who have been charged with crimes for turning to prayer rather than medicine for their kids. 16 These are often members of Charismatic Christian groups. They emphasize the power of the Holy Spirit and point to certain scriptures, notably from Acts and Paul's epistles. Being from conservative Christian denominations, many believe that God inspired the authors of the bible to write text that is free of errors -- inerrant. Certain texts in the Bible promise healing to believers who pray, or go through certain rituals. They are driven by their religious beliefs to trust prayer -- perhaps in place of medical assistance.
I was operated on a year ago for an aortic aneurysm. If I had refused the aneurysm would have burst and I would have died. My twin brother was operated on for the same reason. A close cousin of ours wasn't as lucky. His wasn't discovered and he died at age 50. This wasn't God's wrath being visited upon me. It was an hereditary medical condition and it was resolved by a skilled surgeon. Oh, both of us were prayed for during ourm hospital stay and convalescence. I am grateful for that. God also could have chosen to take me home.
I've heard on this web site about how depression is really demonic possession and now that germs (bacteria and viruses) don't cause disease because that contradicts the Bible. These ideas are simply not consistent with our experience. Are we headed for a second period of the Dark Ages?
menageriekeeper
Active Member
Come again? You have a scripture reference for that?
Strait,
Germs don't cause disease because that's what science is revealing. Bacteria changes its shape and form depending on the environment it is in. Scientists can change the environment and change the shape of the bacteria.
The Bible simply agrees with this understanding of disease.
Medical intervention by surgery is a different topic from lifestyle choices that create the conditons for disease to flourish.
Germs don't cause disease because that's what science is revealing. Bacteria changes its shape and form depending on the environment it is in. Scientists can change the environment and change the shape of the bacteria.
The Bible simply agrees with this understanding of disease.
Medical intervention by surgery is a different topic from lifestyle choices that create the conditons for disease to flourish.
menageriekeeper
Active Member
Deut. 7:12-15 Nicely pulled out of context, Paul.
IF you had bothered to read the entire chapter, or even just a few more verses on either side of these, you might have noticed that God didn't just expect for the Isrealites to keep only the dietary and cleanliness provisions of the law. He expected them to keep the ENTIRE law and also his commandments to "...consume all the people which the Lord thy God shall deliver thee....not be afraid of htem...the graven images of their gods shall ye burn with fire...All the commandments which I command thee this day shall ye observe to do, that ye may live, and multiply" verses 16 continuing to chapter 8 verse 1.
Exodus 15:26 is no different. "IF YOU WILT DO THAT WHICH IS RIGHT... and wilt give ear to his commandments, and keep ALL his statues..."
Sounds like God wanted more than cleanliness to me.
Lets try Lveviticus.
Well, it says the very same thing only this time from the negative perspective. This time God says "..if ye will not hearken..not do all these commandments...despise my statutes...abhor my judgments....break my covenant...I WILL even appoint over your terror, consumption, and the burning ague, that shall consume the eyes and cause sorrow of heart."
Sounds to me like the Lord is giving a stern warning for what would happen if the Isrealites failed to do as they promised.
None of this specifies anything that might be construed as immunizations are sin. Your gonna have to dig a little deeper.
Now for my two cents on this subject. I believe there is a risk to everything. I take a risk every day of my life just walking out my front door. If I do walk out, I might just fall on the step and break a bone. When I go to sleep, I risk never waking up. When my husband sneezes, I risk catching his cold.(btw, does the Law of Moses say anything about covering your face when you sneeze so as not to spead germs and washing your hands after doing so so that the next person you touch isn't contaminated?)
There is really no difference in the kind of risk we face doing every day things than the risk we face when choosing to give our children immunizations. We have to consider whether the benefits of our choice outweighs the risk. I have yet to see statistics that prove the majority of children recieving vaccinations will have some sort of reaction to that vaccination. If you can find some let me know.
IF you had bothered to read the entire chapter, or even just a few more verses on either side of these, you might have noticed that God didn't just expect for the Isrealites to keep only the dietary and cleanliness provisions of the law. He expected them to keep the ENTIRE law and also his commandments to "...consume all the people which the Lord thy God shall deliver thee....not be afraid of htem...the graven images of their gods shall ye burn with fire...All the commandments which I command thee this day shall ye observe to do, that ye may live, and multiply" verses 16 continuing to chapter 8 verse 1.
Exodus 15:26 is no different. "IF YOU WILT DO THAT WHICH IS RIGHT... and wilt give ear to his commandments, and keep ALL his statues..."
Sounds like God wanted more than cleanliness to me.
Lets try Lveviticus.
Well, it says the very same thing only this time from the negative perspective. This time God says "..if ye will not hearken..not do all these commandments...despise my statutes...abhor my judgments....break my covenant...I WILL even appoint over your terror, consumption, and the burning ague, that shall consume the eyes and cause sorrow of heart."
Sounds to me like the Lord is giving a stern warning for what would happen if the Isrealites failed to do as they promised.
None of this specifies anything that might be construed as immunizations are sin. Your gonna have to dig a little deeper.
Now for my two cents on this subject. I believe there is a risk to everything. I take a risk every day of my life just walking out my front door. If I do walk out, I might just fall on the step and break a bone. When I go to sleep, I risk never waking up. When my husband sneezes, I risk catching his cold.(btw, does the Law of Moses say anything about covering your face when you sneeze so as not to spead germs and washing your hands after doing so so that the next person you touch isn't contaminated?)
There is really no difference in the kind of risk we face doing every day things than the risk we face when choosing to give our children immunizations. We have to consider whether the benefits of our choice outweighs the risk. I have yet to see statistics that prove the majority of children recieving vaccinations will have some sort of reaction to that vaccination. If you can find some let me know.
T
TexasSky
Guest
If you actually read all the laws about disease in the bible you will find that most of it supports medical science. Most of it involved cleanliness. Wash your hands if you've been around a leper, and stay away from other people because you'll spread leprosy. Don't eat anything which is still bloody. Very logical, sensible rules that science supports.
menageriekeeper
Active Member
No no no, Texas Sky, that is not what I mean, and I agree with you.
What I mean is that the promises given in those verses applied to the Isrealites following the ENTIRE law, not just the laws about cleanliness.
Example, say they had followed all the clean and unclean laws but worshiped idols(which we know they did), would the promises about disease be kept by God under the covenant? Or did He expect a little more than that?
Isreal got into a lot of trouble, but it wasn't just because they didn't follow thier dietary laws. As a matter of fact, I'd like to see an instance mentioned in scripture where someone didn't keep the dietary laws. Oh Paul......
What I mean is that the promises given in those verses applied to the Isrealites following the ENTIRE law, not just the laws about cleanliness.
Example, say they had followed all the clean and unclean laws but worshiped idols(which we know they did), would the promises about disease be kept by God under the covenant? Or did He expect a little more than that?
Isreal got into a lot of trouble, but it wasn't just because they didn't follow thier dietary laws. As a matter of fact, I'd like to see an instance mentioned in scripture where someone didn't keep the dietary laws. Oh Paul......