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Are Immunizations unhealthy and sinful?
- Thread starter Paul33
- Start date
T
TexasSky
Guest
You wrote Anyone from that time period still living?
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I want to add, "Anyone from this time period not sinning?"
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I want to add, "Anyone from this time period not sinning?"
menageriekeeper
Active Member
You living perfect gb9? 
menageriekeeper
Active Member
How'd I miss seeing the scripture reference?
I must be tireder than I thought.
I must be tireder than I thought.
T
TexasSky
Guest
Well, I agree that God is not sinning and that God is alive.
Let me rephrase that. Any HUMAN today not sinning?
Let me rephrase that. Any HUMAN today not sinning?
M,
Keeping the dietary laws is within the context of keeping all of the law. Yes, I know that.
The point I'm making is that within the law given to Moses, God informed him about certain things to do that seem to comport with the cellular theory of disease and not the germ theory.
I don't know which theory is ultimately correct, but the Bible seems to indicate that if you follow "all" of my laws, I will not bring upon you the diseases of the Egyptians.
But if you want to turn from me and live unsanitary lives and debase and degenerate your body with an unhealthy, unholy lifestyle, then the diseases of the Egyptians will afflict you.
Regardless of which theory seems more right, is is right to put foreign animal proteins and poisons directly into our children's bloodstreams?
Keeping the dietary laws is within the context of keeping all of the law. Yes, I know that.
The point I'm making is that within the law given to Moses, God informed him about certain things to do that seem to comport with the cellular theory of disease and not the germ theory.
I don't know which theory is ultimately correct, but the Bible seems to indicate that if you follow "all" of my laws, I will not bring upon you the diseases of the Egyptians.
But if you want to turn from me and live unsanitary lives and debase and degenerate your body with an unhealthy, unholy lifestyle, then the diseases of the Egyptians will afflict you.
Regardless of which theory seems more right, is is right to put foreign animal proteins and poisons directly into our children's bloodstreams?
Ed Edwards
<img src=/Ed.gif>
Paul33: " ... is is right to put foreign animal proteins and poisons directly into our children's bloodstreams?"
No, usually.
Yes, if it produces more good for society than harm.
My doctor told me to limit my input of fat (AKA: tryglicerides).
I take two pills that are solid fat each day.
But they contain vitiman A and vitiman E - both good
fats that the body needs. Though the taking of solid fat
into my body violates a common principle, the exception
i use is good.
The whole matter of immunization policy is a matter of statistics.
And your friendly local, state, federal, and world governments
hold the stats. Time to depend on your governments (or not, if you
aren't afraid your kids will die and really think the government
will let you get away with not immunizing).
1 Timothy 2:1-4 (KJV1611 Edition):
I exhort therefore, that first of all, supplications, prayers,
intercessions, and giuing of thanks be made for all men:
2 For Kings, and for all that are in authoritie, that we
may leade a quiet and peaceable life in all godlinesse and honestie.
4 Who will haue all men to bee saued, and to come vnto
the knowledge of the trueth.
Lord I lift up my persons of governance in the CDC (Center for
Disease Control, part of the executive branch of the federal
government of the USofA): the doctors, beaurucrats, number chrunchers,
and scientists. May they guide us in all wisdom in regards to
imminization. Please don't let the exception lawyers take over the
CDC. Thank You Kind Heavenly Father for what you are going to do
through and with the CDC. AMEN!
No, usually.
Yes, if it produces more good for society than harm.
My doctor told me to limit my input of fat (AKA: tryglicerides).
I take two pills that are solid fat each day.
But they contain vitiman A and vitiman E - both good
fats that the body needs. Though the taking of solid fat
into my body violates a common principle, the exception
i use is good.
The whole matter of immunization policy is a matter of statistics.
And your friendly local, state, federal, and world governments
hold the stats. Time to depend on your governments (or not, if you
aren't afraid your kids will die and really think the government
will let you get away with not immunizing).
1 Timothy 2:1-4 (KJV1611 Edition):
I exhort therefore, that first of all, supplications, prayers,
intercessions, and giuing of thanks be made for all men:
2 For Kings, and for all that are in authoritie, that we
may leade a quiet and peaceable life in all godlinesse and honestie.
4 Who will haue all men to bee saued, and to come vnto
the knowledge of the trueth.
Lord I lift up my persons of governance in the CDC (Center for
Disease Control, part of the executive branch of the federal
government of the USofA): the doctors, beaurucrats, number chrunchers,
and scientists. May they guide us in all wisdom in regards to
imminization. Please don't let the exception lawyers take over the
CDC. Thank You Kind Heavenly Father for what you are going to do
through and with the CDC. AMEN!
M
mareese
Guest
We do it daily when we feed our children. You may as well ask "is it wrong to eat food". Trust me, the added pesticides, hormones/steroids, antibiotics, and other goodies we spray our plants with and feed our animals does not bypass the bloodstream.
I believe God wants us to advance in science, medicine, and technology. He gave us brains for a purpose, and fully expects us to use them.
If someone feels that it isn't right to use vaccines, that is their choice. It doesn't make the next person wrong for doing so.
I chose not to and quickly changed my mind when pressure from doctors and others became overwhelming. I'm not exactly sorry now that I did, as the children all have been likely exposed to some of the illnesses they were vaccinated against, mostly from foreigners visiting from outside the country.
I do have faith in God. I have faith that if I choose to jump in front of a semi truck I will die instead of being miraculously thrust out of harms way, because he already gave me a way of salvation from being killed by the semi, which is my brain to think about it and not jump in front.
God also provided the scientists and doctors with the ability to learn what they have, and us with the intelligence to learn about what we are being offered and make a choice about whether or not we want to take advantage of that.
Your "brains" arguement is so tired and worn. God gave us brains to test every "prophecy." In the spiritual realm we are to test everything. Why doesn't that hold true in the physical realm? Without any study or research, the American people immunize their children without ever asking, "Does God want me to do this?"
We take someone else's word without checking the facts for ourselves. Hmm.
If you've studies this area and are convinced that it is what God wants you to do, go for it. My point is that very few people do this. They are trusting government or pharmaceutical companies without checking the facts for themselves. And of course, they trust the "priest" of medicine, their local doctor. In fact, most people put more trust in what their doctor says about medicine than what their minister says about spiritual truths.
Those of us who know about pesticides, additives, and adulterated food buy organic! And no eating and taking immunizations are not the same thing. One we have to do, and we attempt to find the purest food we can. The other we do voluntarily, without thinking, and we purposely inject monkey serum and toxins directly into the blood stream. Food is filtered through the kidneys and liver; vaccines go directly into the bloodstream.
We take someone else's word without checking the facts for ourselves. Hmm.
If you've studies this area and are convinced that it is what God wants you to do, go for it. My point is that very few people do this. They are trusting government or pharmaceutical companies without checking the facts for themselves. And of course, they trust the "priest" of medicine, their local doctor. In fact, most people put more trust in what their doctor says about medicine than what their minister says about spiritual truths.
Those of us who know about pesticides, additives, and adulterated food buy organic! And no eating and taking immunizations are not the same thing. One we have to do, and we attempt to find the purest food we can. The other we do voluntarily, without thinking, and we purposely inject monkey serum and toxins directly into the blood stream. Food is filtered through the kidneys and liver; vaccines go directly into the bloodstream.
Ed,
What would you do when the same government wants to take your children out of your home because you home school, attend an evangelical church and have a large family?
Can I see your submissive prayer to the government for that.
Dear God, thank you for the wisdom of the government to provide social service workers to investigate my family. I trust them to know what is best for my children. Thank you, O Heavenly Father for granting them the power to remove my children from my influence. I most humbly respect their kind regards for my children to make sure that they are not indoctrinated by my narrow faith and are allowed to receive an open and accurate education in our most blessed government schools. Amen.
What would you do when the same government wants to take your children out of your home because you home school, attend an evangelical church and have a large family?
Can I see your submissive prayer to the government for that.
Dear God, thank you for the wisdom of the government to provide social service workers to investigate my family. I trust them to know what is best for my children. Thank you, O Heavenly Father for granting them the power to remove my children from my influence. I most humbly respect their kind regards for my children to make sure that they are not indoctrinated by my narrow faith and are allowed to receive an open and accurate education in our most blessed government schools. Amen.
I have been researching vaccines since April 1993 when my then 4 mo. old son reacted to his 2nd round of DPT. I do not consider myself “anti-vaccine”. I call myself “pro-informed consent”. I remember when my son waited in line to receive his vaccines thinking to myself “If this is something I HAVE to do, why am I signed a permission slip?” I also at that time did not know that the Vaccine Information Sheet that is handed to every parent (or is supposed to be) upon administration of vaccines does NOT list all the things that can go wrong. Reference: National Childhood Vaccine Injury Act Vaccine Injury Table published by U.S. Department of Health and Human Services http://www.hrsa.gov/osp/vicp/table.htm
Here is just a sampling of some of the things I have learned.
Each state, INDIVIDUALLY decides what vaccines are “required” for school entry as well as what exemptions will be allowed by the state. The ACIP, CDC, and AAP only RECOMMENDS vaccines to be added to each states list. There are 3 types of exemptions: Medical, Religious, and Philosophical/Personal Belief. The wording of each varies by state. Reference National Vaccine Information Center http://www.909shot.com/state-site/legal-exemptions.htm
As to the ingredients of vaccines: the Preservatives Used in U.S. Licensed Vaccines are: Thimerosal, 2-phenoxyethanol, Phenol, and Benzethonium chloride (Phemerol) Reference: FDA / Center for Biologics Evaluation and Research http://www.fda.gov/cber/vaccine/thimerosal.htm#t2
Overview of Adjuvants http://www.nal.usda.gov/awic/pubs/antibody/overview.htm
Cell lines: Reference: "Designer" Cells as Substrates for the Manufacture of Viral Vaccines http://www.fda.gov/ohrms/dockets/ac/01/briefing/3750b1_01.htm
Vaccine Excipient & Media Summary Reference: the Pink Book http://www.cdc.gov/nip/publications/pink/Appendices/A/Excipient.pdf
As to what CAN happen after the administration of vaccines: NVICP Fact Sheet http://www.hrsa.gov/osp/vicp/fact_sheet.htm
And lest you think it does not happen: National Vaccine Injury Compensation Program Awards Paid 1998-2005
http://www.hrsa.gov/osp/vicp/monthly_stats_post.htm
Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System (VAERS) http://vaers.hhs.gov/
Like I said, this is just a “sampling” of what I have collected over the years. I am NOT posting this info to sway someone to stop vaccinating. I am posting the info because I feel each parent should make that decision, based on FULL knowledge.
Here is just a sampling of some of the things I have learned.
Each state, INDIVIDUALLY decides what vaccines are “required” for school entry as well as what exemptions will be allowed by the state. The ACIP, CDC, and AAP only RECOMMENDS vaccines to be added to each states list. There are 3 types of exemptions: Medical, Religious, and Philosophical/Personal Belief. The wording of each varies by state. Reference National Vaccine Information Center http://www.909shot.com/state-site/legal-exemptions.htm
As to the ingredients of vaccines: the Preservatives Used in U.S. Licensed Vaccines are: Thimerosal, 2-phenoxyethanol, Phenol, and Benzethonium chloride (Phemerol) Reference: FDA / Center for Biologics Evaluation and Research http://www.fda.gov/cber/vaccine/thimerosal.htm#t2
Overview of Adjuvants http://www.nal.usda.gov/awic/pubs/antibody/overview.htm
Cell lines: Reference: "Designer" Cells as Substrates for the Manufacture of Viral Vaccines http://www.fda.gov/ohrms/dockets/ac/01/briefing/3750b1_01.htm
Vaccine Excipient & Media Summary Reference: the Pink Book http://www.cdc.gov/nip/publications/pink/Appendices/A/Excipient.pdf
As to what CAN happen after the administration of vaccines: NVICP Fact Sheet http://www.hrsa.gov/osp/vicp/fact_sheet.htm
And lest you think it does not happen: National Vaccine Injury Compensation Program Awards Paid 1998-2005
http://www.hrsa.gov/osp/vicp/monthly_stats_post.htm
Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System (VAERS) http://vaers.hhs.gov/
Like I said, this is just a “sampling” of what I have collected over the years. I am NOT posting this info to sway someone to stop vaccinating. I am posting the info because I feel each parent should make that decision, based on FULL knowledge.
menageriekeeper
Active Member
By Paul33:
Now, as Christians, there are an awful lot of things about the law that we don't keep. Matters of dress, the purifiying rituals women were held to, circumcision, etc. So if we are going to keep the law in dietary matters, why not all these others?
Here is a scripture reference for you to consider: Mark 7:1-16, I'll quote verse 15...."There is nothing from without a man, that entering into him can defile him: but the things which come out of him, those are they that defile the man."
Consider that Christ spoke these words after the Pharisees had complained that the disciples weren't washing their hands before they ate. Don't you think Jesus knew it was more sanitary to wash hands? But yet he didn't censor the disciples for not doing so.
And did not God use the example of unclean animals/food as an example to Peter that the Word was to go to the Gentiles(Mark 10-11)? Saying "What God hath cleansed, that call not thou comman."? Would God have asked Peter to break the Law by eating unclean things, if He didn't consider them cleaned?
Let me start by saying that not all of us are Jews. If a person were Jewish, they might consider keeping the dietary regs of the OT as a symbol of the covenant between them and God. As Gentiles, these laws never applied to us.
Now, as Christians, there are an awful lot of things about the law that we don't keep. Matters of dress, the purifiying rituals women were held to, circumcision, etc. So if we are going to keep the law in dietary matters, why not all these others?
Here is a scripture reference for you to consider: Mark 7:1-16, I'll quote verse 15...."There is nothing from without a man, that entering into him can defile him: but the things which come out of him, those are they that defile the man."
Consider that Christ spoke these words after the Pharisees had complained that the disciples weren't washing their hands before they ate. Don't you think Jesus knew it was more sanitary to wash hands? But yet he didn't censor the disciples for not doing so.
And did not God use the example of unclean animals/food as an example to Peter that the Word was to go to the Gentiles(Mark 10-11)? Saying "What God hath cleansed, that call not thou comman."? Would God have asked Peter to break the Law by eating unclean things, if He didn't consider them cleaned?
M
mareese
Guest
I agree with Dina. Way to go Dina! We should always make sure we know what we're doing when we make choices for our kids! Information is often given out by doctors offices, but many do not read it. If it isn't, one should take responsibility for finding out this information. Most would think it silly to buy a car from a salesman without checking out the good and bad history of the vehicle, but they'll not question things related to health.
Paul, how much do you know about the diseases that vaccines prevent? It works both ways. You should study the probability, likelihood, and consequences of these illnesses before preaching on non-vaccination. Most of those who lived through them or knew people affected by them decide that the risks associated with vaccines and choose to take that chance.
The "brains" argument may be old, but it's certainly not invalidated. It's the truth.
Buying organic doesn't solve the problems I mentioned. It may help to a small degree. It's a complete farming method that is corrupt. When you buy from any major retailer, whether it's socks or shoes or cars, you're helping promote poor methods of farming.
From what you've said, your problem boils down to whether or not people are informed on vaccinations. You have shown and proven NO reason vaccines shouldn't exist or be used by Christians.
I suggest you change the topic to "is it wrong for people to be uninformed about the danger of vaccinating and not vaccinating?" That seems to be the problem you'd like to deal with.
By the way, Q-tips aren't normally manufactured by corporations with high Christian standards.
Please tell me that you do not use Q-tips. What's good for one part of your life is good for another, right?
Paul, how much do you know about the diseases that vaccines prevent? It works both ways. You should study the probability, likelihood, and consequences of these illnesses before preaching on non-vaccination. Most of those who lived through them or knew people affected by them decide that the risks associated with vaccines and choose to take that chance.
The "brains" argument may be old, but it's certainly not invalidated. It's the truth.
Buying organic doesn't solve the problems I mentioned. It may help to a small degree. It's a complete farming method that is corrupt. When you buy from any major retailer, whether it's socks or shoes or cars, you're helping promote poor methods of farming.
From what you've said, your problem boils down to whether or not people are informed on vaccinations. You have shown and proven NO reason vaccines shouldn't exist or be used by Christians.
I suggest you change the topic to "is it wrong for people to be uninformed about the danger of vaccinating and not vaccinating?" That seems to be the problem you'd like to deal with.
By the way, Q-tips aren't normally manufactured by corporations with high Christian standards.
Please tell me that you do not use Q-tips. What's good for one part of your life is good for another, right?
M
mareese
Guest
Paul, take a step back. Yes there are people on BOTH sides of the issue that are less informed than they could or should be.
However, you are wrong to take one side and then accuse everyone on the other side of ignorance. My informed decision is as justified as your informed decision, although whether or not you are informed is questionable as you still haven't answered whether or not you've studied the diseases, their risks, and their affects.
Have you or have you not?