Are Immunizations unhealthy and sinful?

[menageriekeeper]

Whatcha mean Paul? You ain't never had you any duck blood soup?

Duck Blood Soup

Seriously though Paul, the question was, is it a sin to vacinate our children? Whether or not God gave wise advice(Law) for His nation to follow and is it still wise(as in we now have the technology to deal with things that would have caused big problems in Moses' time) today we haven't gotten into yet and possibly should be the topic of another thread.

 

[Ed Edwards]

Paul33: "I would think that God gave specific commands
to Israel to protect them and keep them from contracting
the diseases of the Egyptians."

I would expect that also.
Today the Egyptians still have polio.
I recommend you vaccinate your children
against polio so they won't have the
diseases of the Egyptians.

 

[rivers1222]

Originally posted by Charles Meadows:
No one would ever administer a vaccine with a 0.5% case fatality rate.

------------------------------
Ah, and there is the rub my friend. I see by your profile that you are a physician. What mortality rate does the medical community find acceptable?
You will find by my previous posts that I am in the camp FOR immunizations. However, every medical standared bearer, from the AMA, CDC, right down to the family physician, are very reluctant to give the stats on the "odds" of something bad happening. I'm not in the conspiracy theory group, but would insurance companies have something to do with the secrecy?

 

[Paul33]

Rivers,

I'd like to hear more. What are you getting at?

 

[Paul33]

Ed,

We are building our children's lives around "health" not disease and the disruption of health that is caused by vaccines filled with monkey serum and other animal proteins!

The Egyptian pharmaceutical companies of Moses' time consisted of similar ingredients to today's vaccines! But God forbade Moses to teach these principles to Israel. He had a different plan for his chosen people.

 

[menageriekeeper]

That's quite a nice idea Paul. But......

Sin is the great disrupter of the perfect world God created for us and the perfect health we would expect to enjoy as part of that perfect world. When you cure sin throughout this now imperfect world, you can do away with vaccines, but the time hasn't come yet when God choses to do away with the corruption of this earth.(And His idea of an eternal "cure" pretty much does away with this world period)

Still now we need to get down to the nittygritty of whether or not the promises made to the Children of Isreal apply to those of us not of Jewish blood. And whether or not we can pick and choose which Laws we follow and which we don't.

Scriptural arguements only please.

 

[Karen]

Originally posted by Paul33:
.....
The Egyptian pharmaceutical companies of Moses' time consisted of similar ingredients to today's vaccines! But God forbade Moses to teach these principles to Israel. He had a different plan for his chosen people.

Where are you getting the phrase "monkey serum" that you are repeatedly using?

My fundamental disagreement with you is that you are misapplying Scripture.
Different diseases are caused by a variety of things: bacteria, virusses, genetics, carcinogens. You are prooftexting an interpretation of the Law to try to show that disease is only from one source, and that the germ theory of some diseases is false.

Then you are mistakenly equating ancient Egyptian practices that were done in pagan religious rites with vaccinations. I do not see a correspondence between an ancient pagan drinking blood in an idolatrous ceremony and my parents getting the polio vaccine for me.

Karen

 

[Paul33]

Karen,

The ingredients in the pharmacies of ancient Egypt are no different than the ingredients found in vaccines. (I've posted websites where you can find out what's in vaccines. For Egyptian pharmacies, see "The Signature of God" by Grant Jeffrey.

Israel was forbidden to drink blood. Why?

Vaccines are injected directly into the bloodstream. Is this healthy? Is there a connection with the Scriptural command not to drink blood?

mk,

OT laws reveal many scientific truths that we are only now discovering. I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss the truth behind the laws given by Moses to Israel.

Laws on quarantine, sanitation, excrement, foods that could be easily contaminated, molds, sexual relations, timing for intercourse with spouse, day for circumcision, etc. (All of these laws are now known to have certain beneficial results as proven by science!)

 

[menageriekeeper]

Not questioning that God may very well and probably did have practical reasons for many of the Laws handed down by Moses.

What I am questioning is whether or not keeping PART of the law, will give us the same benefit as keeping the entire Law and whether or not the promises given to Isreal apply to us Gentiles.

 

[Charles Meadows]

Vaccines are injected directly into the bloodstream.

No - they're generally given as intramuscular injections.

Why are you so paranoid about vaccines?

This wouldn't be an issue if it were not for some nutball pastors here and there ranting against vaccines!

Vaccines prevent disease and save lives. That's just not a debatable point.

 

[Paul33]

If a person keeps only the laws on sanitation and how to deal with excrement, that person is going to be much healthier than those who don't. So in this case, keeping "one" law would improve the health of most of those living in third world countries, where the drinking supply is contaminated by their own refuse!

As for promises - the promises given to Israel find fulfillment in True Israel which is part of the church. True Israel (believing Jews) and believing Gentiles make up the church. Since the promises are fulfilled in True Israel, and we are grafted in, we too share in the promises given to Israel by virtue of being united with True Israel in the church (Eph. 2, Romans 9-11, Gal. 3).

 

[Paul33]

Charles,

If you did research into this area, you might change your mind.

Nutball pastors. What name calling!

The sources I quote are all Medical Doctors.

Why are you so paranoid about doing a little research? Call these Doctors quacks if you want to, but vaccines have been "debated" from their inception. And the closer you get to the orginal source, the more you find that the "proof" of effectiveness has been grossly overstated. In fact, vaccines have been shown to be "not" effective! According to the Medical Doctors, vaccines are a hoax!

So quit blaming pastors and put the blame on the Doctors who are writing the books exposing the myth of immunizations.

 

[Paul33]

Originally posted by Charles Meadows:
Vaccines are injected directly into the bloodstream.

No - they're generally given as intramuscular injections.

Yes, Yes. And then it goes into the bloodstream of the person without passing through the kidneys and liver first.

 

[Charles Meadows]

Paul,

I AM a medical doctor. And I have done the research.

And the New England Journal of Medicine and CDC do not share your appraisal of the data. For which vaccine do you want a citation of evidence?

And yes there are plenty of pastors out there telling their congregations that they shouldn't vaccinate their kids. And yes they are nutballs (or worse)!

 

[Ed Edwards]

Originally posted by Paul33:
Rivers,

I'd like to hear more. What are you getting at?

Strangely, Rivers is the onely
one who has broached a serious fact.
The odds are not known when
vaccine is given. But the odds are way
in the favor of the vaccine, probably over
13:1 for even the meanest vaccine.

 

[mareese]

Charles, I often hear people against vaccines state that most doctors won't vaccinate their own children because they know the risk.
I've asked 4 pediatricians so far if they've vaccinated their children. All of them have said yes, so I doubt the validity of that claim.
What about you? Do you have children, and have they been vaccinated?

 

[Charles Meadows]

Mareese,

I have 3 children. And yes they have all been vaccinated, including yearly influenza vaccine and an RSV vaccine for my oldest who was a preemie.

 

[ShagNappy]

Originally posted by Paul33:
If you did research into this area, you might change your mind.

I have. I have also discussed it with many doctors. One, a world class doc my wife works for, who does a great deal of consulting work now, most of which is for Emory and the FDA, often times concerning vaccines and children. Her child is vaccinated and she fully recommends them. She is also not trying to sell a book.

Nutball pastors. What name calling!

Pot, meet kettle.

The sources I quote are all Medical Doctors.

You have quoted people with an agenda, mostly to sell their crackpot books.

According to the Medical Doctors, vaccines are a hoax!

According to quacks trying to sell books actually. Not well respected doctors who actually know what they speak of.

 

[HankD]

Paul33 we are all guilty of breaking God's law.

Is it right to pump several poisons/pollutants into the air (carbon monoxide, sulfuric acid, etc) by driving a vehicle with a gasoline burning engine?

Not only do we damage our own health but we "provide" these poisons to our neigbors and the innocent victims (infants, children) all around us.


HankD

 

[Paul33]

Originally posted by Charles Meadows:
Paul,

I AM a medical doctor. And I have done the research.

And the New England Journal of Medicine and CDC do not share your appraisal of the data. For which vaccine do you want a citation of evidence?

And yes there are plenty of pastors out there telling their congregations that they shouldn't vaccinate their kids. And yes they are nutballs (or worse)!

Take it up with Dr. Mendlesohn, who wrote "How to Raise A Healthy Child In Spite of Your Doctor."

Most doctors think they are specialists in every field of study simply because they know how to take out someone's tonsils. I'm glad you're not my doctor!