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Are Immunizations unhealthy and sinful?
- Thread starter Paul33
- Start date
No, Hank, it's not right. Especially since we now know the damage we are causing one another.
But even you know that two wrongs don't make a "right."
It reminds me of the liberal Hollywood elite who come to their environmental causes in Hummers!
Now how do we rectify situations that are beyond our control? Short of living in walking distance to work, church and school, I don't know what to suggest.
Any suggestions?
D
dianetavegia
Guest
Dryer sheets are probably more dangerous than some of these vaccines.
Charles Meadows
New Member
Paul33,
You may throw out insults if you wish.
But that does not change the facts.
Oh and by the way - I am one of the doctors who DOES know the facts (my board test scores should prove that
).
Mendelson has an agenda - oh and likes to sell books too!
I guess the New England Journal of Medicine, Harvard Med School and the CDC should take a good listen to you and Dr Mendelson?
Vaccines are not 100% risk free and they are produced by the (very) capitalistic and (very) opportunistic pharmaceutical industry.
Despite that the benefit/risk ratio is overwhelmingly favorable.
You are WRONG as is everyone else who holds your position.
I hope that neither you nor any friends or family lose a child to a preventable illness.
You may throw out insults if you wish.
But that does not change the facts.
Oh and by the way - I am one of the doctors who DOES know the facts (my board test scores should prove that
Mendelson has an agenda - oh and likes to sell books too!
I guess the New England Journal of Medicine, Harvard Med School and the CDC should take a good listen to you and Dr Mendelson?
Vaccines are not 100% risk free and they are produced by the (very) capitalistic and (very) opportunistic pharmaceutical industry.
Despite that the benefit/risk ratio is overwhelmingly favorable.
You are WRONG as is everyone else who holds your position.
I hope that neither you nor any friends or family lose a child to a preventable illness.
rivers1222
Member
Strangely, Rivers is the onely
one who has broached a serious fact.
The odds are not known when
vaccine is given. But the odds are way
in the favor of the vaccine, probably over
13:1 for even the meanest vaccine. </font>[/QUOTE]--------------------
Been away for a couple of days and actually thought this thread would have died out by now. Actually Ed, it was just a thought as I was reading the threads. You can not mention medicine without thinking of health insurance companies. I mentioned I had a son in a neo-natal ICU unit for 3 months. ALL the facts and percentages for everything they did were laid out before us in that environment. However, with my preceeding childrens vaccinations, no info was given, (and , admittedly, none asked,) about any potential side effects.
Charles, I consider it a blessing and a great resource to have a physician on the board to speak to this subject. We have all read of HMO's constraining doctors from disclosing alternative or experimental treatments for certain conditions. Have you or any of your fellow M.D.'s ever been "discouraged" from discussing side effects of certain vaccinations, either by HMO's, health insurance, medicade, or any of the professional organizations such as the AMA? Thanks.
Ed Edwards
<img src=/Ed.gif>
Rivers1222: "Actually Ed, it was just a thought as I was reading the threads. You can not mention medicine without thinking of health insurance companies."
Yep. There is a tendancy for serious medical decisions to
be made by health insurance accountants and government number
crunchers instead of doctors.
Yep. There is a tendancy for serious medical decisions to
be made by health insurance accountants and government number
crunchers instead of doctors.
Charles Meadows
New Member
Rivers,
Have you or any of your fellow M.D.'s ever been "discouraged" from discussing side effects of certain vaccinations, either by HMO's, health insurance, medicade, or any of the professional organizations such as the AMA? Thanks.
No.
It is important to keep such things in mind. Everything has potential risks of complications, no matter how small the risk may be. Everyone should ask questions of their doctors regarding safety of any treatments. Certain caveats would apply - such as giving a varicella vaccine to a child whose sibling is severely immune suppressed.
My problem with Paul33's position is this: The more people cry "conspiracy" - the more may actually believe it!
No parent should feel shy about asking a question of the doctor. But the overall benefit/risk ratio for vaccines in general is quite favorable.
Have you or any of your fellow M.D.'s ever been "discouraged" from discussing side effects of certain vaccinations, either by HMO's, health insurance, medicade, or any of the professional organizations such as the AMA? Thanks.
No.
It is important to keep such things in mind. Everything has potential risks of complications, no matter how small the risk may be. Everyone should ask questions of their doctors regarding safety of any treatments. Certain caveats would apply - such as giving a varicella vaccine to a child whose sibling is severely immune suppressed.
My problem with Paul33's position is this: The more people cry "conspiracy" - the more may actually believe it!
No parent should feel shy about asking a question of the doctor. But the overall benefit/risk ratio for vaccines in general is quite favorable.
Ed Edwards
<img src=/Ed.gif>
I repeat the quote from USA TODAY, 18 May 05,
"Push to rid Africa of polio marches onward".
"When authorities in northern Nigeria
stopped immunizing children from August
2003 to July 2004 wrongly suspecting
that the vaccine could cause HIV
infection or sterility, polio rates shot up."
Paranoia has it's price. Polio lives on the earth
only in two places: the companies that make the
vaccine and in the children of conspiracy believing
northern Nigerians.
Sure, go back to the horse and buggy.
There are in fact many folks in Pennsylvania for instance who won't drive automobiles because they believe that they are unscriptural. They have taken control of their situation in spite of the inconvenience it causes.
I was simply pointing out that we all damage each other's health by our modern practices. I didn't try to justify it by saying it's out of our control, you did. I am guilty as well as you.
Personally I believe that some of modern medicine (not just animal based vaccinations) is legalized quackery.
But, if I were bitten by a rabid animal, I would probably go through the rabies vaccination procedure to save my life or a loved ones life.
I've have never had a flu shot and don't intend to ever have one. In fact, I probably go beyond your health precautions (though, I don't know for sure).
Some people think I am a kook because I don't drink water that has had certain halogens (chlorine, fluorine, bromine) added to it, IMO, it's another dangerous practice:
Read the whole article, hopefully you home school your kids and have well water or warn them not to drink any chlorinated/fluorinated/bromated water at school, church , friends houses, restaurants, etc.
Although, I must admit that I would prefer chorinated water rather than water contaminated with raw sewage or cholera, typhoid, etc (I use deep well water).
There are several other health issues in my own life. I don't use aluminum cookware or hydrogenated oils (for instance), I avoid super-refined foods and have several other "quaint" health practices.
So, for the most part I agree with you.
However, my point is that the scope of wisdom concerning health is much larger than animal based vaccines and in all likelyhood you are involved in some bad health practices as well.
HankD
Charles,
When did I ever cry conspiracy!
My whole point is the medical establishment and school officials do not present the other side of the issue. School officials break the law by not informing parents of their choice to exempt. Medical Doctors fail to present the potential side effects as you have confirmed.
The only conspiracy is the silence emanating from the establishment. Suggest that we ought to be asking questions and suggest that their might be reason to ask questions and we're immediately labeled a "kook" or "nut."
When did I ever cry conspiracy!
My whole point is the medical establishment and school officials do not present the other side of the issue. School officials break the law by not informing parents of their choice to exempt. Medical Doctors fail to present the potential side effects as you have confirmed.
The only conspiracy is the silence emanating from the establishment. Suggest that we ought to be asking questions and suggest that their might be reason to ask questions and we're immediately labeled a "kook" or "nut."
Hank,
We are on the same page.
We purify our water with reverse-osmosis.
We don't eat white sugar or white flour.
We don't use hydrogenated oil.
We don't use milk.
We eat organic when available.
We eat fresh lettuce, vegetables, fruits.
We limit our meat intake.
Basically we make alot of stir-fries!
We don't use aluminum pots and pans.
We live in a small town and we enjoy the slower pace of life, meeting friends, meeting neighbors, going for walks, etc.
Vaccinations are just one area where "many" Christians do what they are told and assume that there is no risk because they remember grandma's scary stories of polio and because no one talks about the risks.
Our philosophy in life is "natural." We eat as close to natural as we can without artifical color, preservatives, hormones, antibiotics, herbicides, etc.
Life is good.
We are on the same page.
We purify our water with reverse-osmosis.
We don't eat white sugar or white flour.
We don't use hydrogenated oil.
We don't use milk.
We eat organic when available.
We eat fresh lettuce, vegetables, fruits.
We limit our meat intake.
Basically we make alot of stir-fries!
We don't use aluminum pots and pans.
We live in a small town and we enjoy the slower pace of life, meeting friends, meeting neighbors, going for walks, etc.
Vaccinations are just one area where "many" Christians do what they are told and assume that there is no risk because they remember grandma's scary stories of polio and because no one talks about the risks.
Our philosophy in life is "natural." We eat as close to natural as we can without artifical color, preservatives, hormones, antibiotics, herbicides, etc.
Life is good.
Charles Meadows
New Member
Paul33,
The only conspiracy is the silence emanating from the establishment. Suggest that we ought to be asking questions and suggest that their might be reason to ask questions and we're immediately labeled a "kook" or "nut."
The fact that you would go to a doctor suggests that you think he/she must know something.
I'm telling you that while there are SMALL risks to vaccinations they ARE the right choice for our population. Asking questions is fine - but you seem to be implying that you somehow (based on the wannabe Oprah books by rogue "experts") know better. In this case if you think so you are WRONG.
And you CAN potentially help harm other's kids by propagating misinformation.
The only conspiracy is the silence emanating from the establishment. Suggest that we ought to be asking questions and suggest that their might be reason to ask questions and we're immediately labeled a "kook" or "nut."
The fact that you would go to a doctor suggests that you think he/she must know something.
I'm telling you that while there are SMALL risks to vaccinations they ARE the right choice for our population. Asking questions is fine - but you seem to be implying that you somehow (based on the wannabe Oprah books by rogue "experts") know better. In this case if you think so you are WRONG.
And you CAN potentially help harm other's kids by propagating misinformation.
The milk of the Bible was more likely to be goat's milk than cow's milk which supposedly is much better for human consumption.
Also the animals were not fed synthetic hormones, the milk was not "irradiated" with vitamin D and the milk was not routinely cooked (pasteurized) and embalmed.
http://www.monitor.net/rachel/r382.html
HankD
Also the animals were not fed synthetic hormones, the milk was not "irradiated" with vitamin D and the milk was not routinely cooked (pasteurized) and embalmed.
http://www.monitor.net/rachel/r382.html
HankD
And yet there are many Christians who realize that there are risks to many things and they do study, coming to a different conclusion than yours about vaccinations.
I am not remembering Grandma's scary stories about polio. I am under 50, but I am remembering first-hand polio scares and watching relatives and friends struggle with it. Then it was wiped out.
By the way, plenty of people in rural MO have died from diseases caused by contaminated well-water.
I'll ask you a question. Why were certain dietary laws overridden in the New Testament if they were health principles for all time?
Certainly many Old Testament practices such as covering up excrement are good health practices. But using those texts as prooftexts that disease is never caused by germs is unwarranted. There is nothing in the text about covering up excrement that says germs are not present.
Karen