You seem to be reinforcing my position: most of the argument uses extra-biblical information for doctrine.
I don't see how. For instance Doctrine is established before scripture was writen. Jesus orally taught his disciples and doctrine was formed long before the first gospel was even penned IE at least (at a minimum) 20 years. This is attested to by the writings of the Apostles in the NT. Therefore doctrine is established by the inspired verbal words of the apostles. Some of the things they taught were written for prosperity which we consider scripture because of the plenary inspiration of those apostles who wrote them.
Mormonism is false per Revelation 22:19-20. The holy see falls for the same reason: adding to or taking away the scripture.
This is entirely untrue. Mormonism is wrong because Joseph Smith is wrong and its based on his teaching. Its wrong for the same reason Islam is wrong. However, Revelation 22:19-20 is making an attestation to the book of revelation which was common among Jewish Apocalyptic literature. Look at what the passage actually says:
19 And if anyone takes words away from this scroll of prophecy, God will take away from that person any share in the tree of life and in the Holy City, which are described in this scroll.
20 He who testifies to these things says, “Yes, I am coming soon.”
Amen. Come, Lord Jesus.
This passage isn't refering to the entire NT or attesting to the NT or even the OT just to its own book. What you've done is taken that passage and applied it to a canon not established by John the Revelator but to his own book of Prophesy which is singularily the book of Revelation. Thus you have expanded the meaning beyond the context of the passage which isn't a very good way of dealing with scriptural passage. Canon was set many years later by church leaders.
True Christianity has never been really tolerated by the world nor the religions of the world--unless they recanted or conformed.
I agree with this and to state that the reformers couldn't bear True Christianity either because they wanted to have multiple sex partners (Zwigili), or wanted to re-create the faith in their own image and use favorable theories (humanism) to help establish their personal theories (John Calvin), Or just couldn't handle their emotional ups and downs and paranoia (Martin Luther). And since the former two could not abide something they couldn't understand the historical understanding of the Eucharist as passed down by the Apostles was put to the wayside in favor of rationalism making the human intellect God rather than Keeping God on his throne. Just some thoughts for you.
Conformed to the world--that is the problem in most so-called churches today--that is why we are not persecuted.
I'm sorry Catholics are constantly persecuted in fact 3 Catholic Churches in Nigeria were blown up during Sunday services, Catholics are taken as slaves from Southern Sudan to Northern Sudan, Italians are stealing the Eucharist from Churches so they can desicrate them. It happens so often that now consecrated bread must be placed under lock and Key. The United States is trying to pass a bill that will force Catholics to act against their conscience, During the Cistero War the Mexican Government persecuted Catholics. Egyptians kidnap Catholic Girls and rape them forcing them into Islamic Marriages, and several Catholics have been killed by Egyptians, in Pakistan Catholics suffer violence and now are forced to be judged under Sharia law, a Catholic educational compound and disablity center in Indonesia was attacked and a village was burned down displacing 1,000 catholics. Saudi Arabia now wants to destroy all Catholic Cathedrals on the Arabian Peninsula. And on and on it goes.
We are preaching another gospel than the one the Apostle Paul preached. We have watered down "sin, righteous, and judgement to come."
Catholic Church takes sin pretty seriously and constantly talks about judgement. In fact I think the Catholic Church takes sin much more seriously than many protestant churches. Who think nothing is wrong with Contraseption, divorse, the M word etc.... Whereas the Catholic church does.
We have a religion which conforms to our livestyle rather than a lifestyle which conforms to our religion.
Now both protestants and Catholics have this issue. Many Catholics are Catholics in name only like Nancy Pelosi and practically all Catholics in Canada since their bishops have not followed Orthodoxy that a review of their bishops is currently underway. These are what I call liberal and they don't want to worship God but want to feel good about themselves and sing snappy praise songs. Both groups need to repent.
While it is true that many of the false doctrines go back to the first century
Did you ever consider the fact that true doctrines go back to the first century?
that does not somehow make them true.
No. The fact that they are true and that they are attested to by every writing of credible Christian leaders of their day does.
It is possible to be very authentically ancient yet still false.
Yet is is also more likely to rely on modern philosophies and be wrong like humanism (start of the reformation), rationalization, etc...
Example: the words of Satan in the Garden of Eden, "You shall not surely die..." are certainly authentic------and false.
Yes but didn't God say before satan and more ancient that "of all the trees in the garden thou mayest eat of. Yet the tree in the middle of the garden, the tree of the knowledge of good and evil thou mayest not eat for thou will surely die" ? And didn't Adam pass God's command to Eve verbally and even probably added "don't even touch it" because Eve says to the serpent. " but God did say, ‘You must not eat fruit from the tree that is in the middle of the garden, and
you must not touch it, or you will die.’” though God had said to Adam "“You are free to eat from any tree in the garden; 17 but you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, for when you eat from it you will certainly die.” note nothing about touching it. Yet Eve believed that part was from God too.
The NT scripture plainly teaches that there were already antichrists and there would be more--DO NOT BELIEVE THEM
Yes you are quite right. Paul wanted the early christians to follow his example
Follow my example, as I follow the example of Christ.
and then he discoused how properly to do something in Church
23 For I received from the Lord what I also passed on to you: The Lord Jesus, on the night he was betrayed, took bread, 24 and when he had given thanks, he broke it and said, “This is my body, which is for you; do this in remembrance of me.” 25 In the same way, after supper he took the cup, saying, “This cup is the new covenant in my blood; do this, whenever you drink it, in remembrance of me.” 26 For whenever you eat this bread and drink this cup, you proclaim the Lord’s death until he comes.
27 So then, whoever eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty of sinning against the body and blood of the Lord. 28 Everyone ought to examine themselves before they eat of the bread and drink from the cup. 29 For those who eat and drink without discerning the body of Christ eat and drink judgment on themselves
and apparently some of these people who didn't take Paul seriously not only got sick but
For those who eat and drink without discerning the body of Christ eat and drink judgment on themselves. 30 That is why many among you are weak and sick, and a number of you have fallen asleep. 31 But if we were more discerning with regard to ourselves, we would not come under such judgment
Apparently kept it up after Paul was gone
Take note of those who hold heterodox opinions on the grace of Jesus Christ which has come to us, and see how contrary their opinions are to the mind of God ... They abstain from the Eucharist and from prayer because they do not confess that the Eucharist is the flesh of our Savior Jesus Christ, flesh which suffered for our sins and which that Father, in his goodness, raised up again. They who deny the gift of God are perishing in their disputes. - Ignatius
Yep they were there at the beginimg.
some did not heed the warning. If a lie is repeated long enough, somehow it becomes truth
Yes it does seem thats how the hetrodox people think.
Things that were false in the first century are still false today.
Yes. but continues to be perpuated by many protestant churches.
The doctrines of God do not change
Amen, Jesus said what he meant and Mean what he said at the institution of the Eucharist. That will never change.
He knows that depraved humans cannot deal with Truth
which is why he is merciful with protestants.
All have sinned and come short of the glory of God. There are none righteous, not one.
Amen! None of us are righteous we need God and to put our wholeselves at the feet of Jesus.
Now what
Peace,
Bro. James
Well, we should all come to Jesus, repent of our sins, and follow him for the rest of our days. What do you think?
