Are the Greek/Russian orthodox Valid Christian Churches?

[Dr. Walter]

Well then, if that statement is true then you should be able to cite numerous 1st and 2nd century writings to back that up. There are documents from the period but (much to your chagrin I'm sure) they were written by Catholics. You have nothing.

WM

Rome has been the ultimate authority in what should be preserved and what should be destroyed. Rome has hand picked the writings they chose to preserve and destroyed the writings they regarded as heretical.

This should be obvous to any UNBIASED reader of history because even in the literature Rome chose to preserve there is explicit reference to hundreds of thousands of those they deemed as heretics in almost every century since the second century and yet there is VERY LITTLE of their writings preserved by Rome. Are we to assume they did not write down what they beleived? Are we to assume that the secular arm that destroyed them, did not destroy their writings as well????

It does not take too much common sense to perceive that the foundational development of the Post-Nicene dispicable doctrines of Rome are logicallically based upon the Nicene records and that the Nicene records are the logical developments of the Antenicene records. Together they form the history of apostasy predicted by Paul in 1 Tim. 4:1-3.

 

[Dr. Walter]

Dr. Walter "believes" that God's word is a Catholic basher.

WM

Paul said "all scripture is profitable for doctrine...correction...instruction...that the man of God may be perfect thoroughly furnished..."

However, you have denied this when you stated:

Originally Posted by Dr. Walter
If that is so, then it should be an easy matter for you to provide Biblical evidence to show how I have misrepresented each of these? I await....

And that is precisely why I don't provide you with biblical evidence. I don't, because any such "evidence" would be biased and subjective based upon one's human and fallible interpretation of the text. This is precisely why you are unable to discuss the topic intellegently. - WM

Tradition is your final authority not the Word of God and so it is with Rome. Hence, the Bible is a Catholic Basher for the Bible says:

To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them. - Isa. 8:20

Paul said "all scripture" is given by inspiration and Isaiah 8:20 is part of "all scripture" and is thus true any time as Paul repeated basically the same thing when he said "Let God be true but every man a liar" when it comes to a dispute between What God's Word says and what men say:

Rom. 3:4 God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings,

yes, the Bible is a Catholic basher

 

[Martin Marprelate]

Carrying this belief to its logical conclusion then the followers of Islam are correct. No likenesses of any kind in paintings.

No supposed likenesses of God, that's for sure. The Moslems don't get much right, but they got that right.

No pictures of Jesus hanging on the walls anywhere or any in Sunday School rooms.

No pictures of an all-purpose bearded man hanging on walls, that children are told is Jesus. Absolutely right!

Probably no photos of anyone.

If you find a photo of Jesus, you can hang it up. :laugh:

Now if you insist that Deut. 4:23 still holds then you have to argue that all the rules in Leviticus also still hold. Do you believe thus?

Non Sequitur. The ceremonial law is fulfilled and has passed away (Mark 7:18:20; Heb 9:12 etc.). The moral law, exemplified by the 10 Commandments still stands (Matt 5:18-19; 9:13; 1Sam 15:22).

Steve

 

[Dr. Walter]

No supposed likenesses of God, that's for sure. The Moslems don't get much right, but they got that right.

No pictures of an all-purpose bearded man hanging on walls, that children are told is Jesus. Absolutely right!

If you find a photo of Jesus, you can hang it up. :laugh:


Non Sequitur. The ceremonial law is fulfilled and has passed away (Mark 7:18:20; Heb 9:12 etc.). The moral law, exemplified by the 10 Commandments still stands (Matt 5:18-19; 9:13; 1Sam 15:22).

Steve

Idolatry begins with the imagination and what is imagined is then fabricated in stone, pictures or or other images. The so-called pictures of Christ are fabrications of the imagination of artists and it violates the Law of God as Christ is God in human form and the law prohibits any likeness of God. Pictures of the so-called Christ are nothing but idols. Not only idols but misrepresentative of Jesus as Christ did not have long hair, he was not a Nazerite but a Nazerine and he was not a good looking person but at the very best average if not ugly (Isa. 53:1-4). The crowd of soldiers had to have him pointed out by Judas because he did not stand out from the common Jew.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

No supposed likenesses of God, that's for sure. The Moslems don't get much right, but they got that right.

No pictures of an all-purpose bearded man hanging on walls, that children are told is Jesus. Absolutely right!

If you find a photo of Jesus, you can hang it up. :laugh:


Non Sequitur. The ceremonial law is fulfilled and has passed away (Mark 7:18:20; Heb 9:12 etc.). The moral law, exemplified by the 10 Commandments still stands (Matt 5:18-19; 9:13; 1Sam 15:22).

Steve

Oh Oh.......I'm going to hell then... Got pictures on the wall of Christ & I wear a crucifix ......wooooo is me:tongue3:

 

[WestminsterMan]

This should be obvous to any UNBIASED reader of history because even in the literature Rome chose to preserve there is explicit reference to hundreds of thousands of those they deemed as heretics in almost every century since the second century and yet there is VERY LITTLE of their writings preserved Rome.

The unbiased reader would look at the evidence. There exists none, so again - you have nothing but conspiracy theories.

WM

 

[Dr. Walter]

Oh Oh.......I'm going to hell then... Got pictures on the wall of Christ & I wear a crucifix ......wooooo is me:tongue3:

You are in disobedience to God's Law concerning this whether you mock it or not! Hell is for sinners but so is heaven. The difference is not personal obedience or disobedience because there is no such thing as a sinless saint. Heaven is determined by faith in the complete satisfaction of Christ obedience for you. If you insert your own obedience/disobedience in your faith concept then hell is certain regardless if you have or do not have idols as that is by definition a "vain" faith.

 

[WestminsterMan]

snip...Pictures of the so-called Christ are nothing but idols. Not only idols but misrepresentative of Jesus as Christ did not have long hair, he was not a Nazerite but a Nazerine and he was not a good looking person but at the very best average if not ugly (Isa. 53:1-4). The crowd of soldiers had to have him pointed out by Judas because he did not stand out from the common Jew.

Oh Lordy... It's the attack of the Puritans!

WM

 

[WestminsterMan]

snip... If you insert your own obedience/disobedience in your faith concept then hell is certain regardless if you have or do not have idols as that is by definition a "vain" faith.

Well I guess we don't need Jesus anymore as Dr. Walter has decided who is going to hell. It just happens to be anyone who disagrees with his beliefs. How covenient.

WM

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Oh Lordy... It's the attack of the Puritans!

WM

Ive never had a Baptist Pastor or a Calvinist Pastor, Elder, or brethren ever tell me that! nor has the HS so I will just take it on advisement. Until which time I do....will let you know.:smilewinkgrin:

 

[Dr. Walter]

The unbiased reader would look at the evidence. There exists none, so again - you have nothing but conspiracy theories.

WM

The absence of writings by hundreds of thousands of those condemned as heretics is the evidence that Rome suppressed and destroyed their writings while preserving what they pleased to preserve.

The so-called Fathers are about as relevant as the Book of Mormon and its history of America. Fortunately for us Mormonism never controlled the U.S. government and destroyed those who opposed Mormonism and destroyed the true history of America.

 

[Dr. Walter]

Oh Lordy... It's the attack of the Puritans!

WM

No, like all Romanists you simply despise the Word of God while following your gods - the church fathers.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Strict Muzzies dont wear ties....they think its a trick of Christians to get them to wear a cross.....LOL, zealots never change do they? LOL:laugh:

 

[drfuss]

Thank you, Anastasia.

In the Long answer, you said:
"Baptism is symbolic of death and resurrection in Christ and with Chrismation (equivalent to confirmation) the individual is sealed with the Holy Spirit."

Does sealed with the Holy spirit in the Orthodox church, mean the same as eternal security does in Baptist churches? Or is there a difference?

This thread has been hyjacked by bashing. So Anastasia, Let's get back to the questions by just ignoring the bashing.

Does sealed with the Holy spirit in the Orthodox church, mean the same as eternal security does in Baptist churches? Or is there a difference?

Hopefully, Anastasia is still aboard on this thread. Maybe Anastasia dropped out (as I usually do) when the bashing starts.

 

[Dr. Walter]

Ive never had a Baptist Pastor or a Calvinist Pastor, Elder, or brethren ever tell me that! nor has the HS so I will just take it on advisement. Until which time I do....will let you know.:smilewinkgrin:

Obviously the word of God is not sufficient for you. So like the Romanists you prefer the word of a man over God's Word before you can determine right from wrong:

FACT #1 - Christ was not a handsome face -

Isa. 53:2 ....he hath no form nor comeliness; and when we shall see him, there is no beauty that we should desire him.

All pictures of Christ MISREPRESENT God's own description of him.


FACT #2 - Christ was God in the flesh

Jn. 1:1,14 ¶ In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.....14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.


FACT #3 - God's Law prohibits making any visible image of what man may perceive to be God

Ex. 20:4 Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth:

Isa 40:18 ¶ To whom then will ye liken God? or what likeness will ye compare unto him?Isa 40:19 The workman melteth a graven image, and the goldsmith spreadeth it over with gold, and casteth silver chains.

Isa 42:8 I am the LORD: that is my name: and my glory will I not give to another, neither my praise to graven images.

Ac 17:29 Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man’s device.

In other words God prohibits making any kind of physical visible image to REPRESENT God because every such image MISPRESENTS God.

A painting is such an image on canvas in paint rather than in stone. Such paintings of God or gods are classified with idols in God's Word and is forbidden and should be destroyed:

Nu 33:52 Then ye shall drive out all the inhabitants of the land from before you, and destroy all their pictures, and destroy all their molten images, and quite pluck down all their high places:


However, The Word of God is not the authority for Romanists and Traditionalists but it is for the true people of God.

 

[WestminsterMan]

snip...

Paul said "all scripture" is given by inspiration....
yes, the Bible is a Catholic basher

Well doc...2 Peter 1:20 states: "Knowing this first, that no prophecy of scripture is of private interpretation."

WM

 

[WestminsterMan]

No, like all Romanists you simply despise the Word of God while following your gods - the church fathers.

How sad...

WM

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Obviously the word of God is not sufficient for you. So like the Romanists you prefer the word of a man over God's Word before you can determine right from wrong:

FACT #1 - Christ was not a handsome face -

Isa. 53:2 ....he hath no form nor comeliness; and when we shall see him, there is no beauty that we should desire him.

All pictures of Christ MISREPRESENT God's own description of him.


FACT #2 - Christ was God in the flesh

Jn. 1:1,14 ¶ In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.....14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.


FACT #3 - God's Law prohibits making any visible image of what man may perceive to be God

Ex. 20:4 Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth:

Isa 40:18 ¶ To whom then will ye liken God? or what likeness will ye compare unto him?Isa 40:19 The workman melteth a graven image, and the goldsmith spreadeth it over with gold, and casteth silver chains.

Isa 42:8 I am the LORD: that is my name: and my glory will I not give to another, neither my praise to graven images.

Ac 17:29 Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man’s device.

In other words God prohibits making any kind of physical visible image to REPRESENT God because every such image MISPRESENTS God.

A painting is such an image on canvas in paint rather than in stone. Such paintings of God or gods are classified with idols in God's Word and is forbidden and should be destroyed:

Nu 33:52 Then ye shall drive out all the inhabitants of the land from before you, and destroy all their pictures, and destroy all their molten images, and quite pluck down all their high places:


However, The Word of God is not the authority for Romanists and Traditionalists but it is for the true people of God.

So you resort to proof-texts now? LOL

 

[Dr. Walter]

Well doc...2 Peter 1:20 states: "Knowing this first, that no prophecy of scripture is of private interpretation."

WM

I wished you really believed that but you don't. Peter is referring to those whom God used to put His Word into print. They did not write their own personal opinions but were moved along or directed in their writing to present God's opinion not theirs. Like all Romanists you are great at jerking texts out of context. Let us put this text back into its context:

20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.
21 FOR the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.

Hence, the bible is not to be regarded as the personal opinion/interpretation of the human writers but as the authorized and inspired Word of God.

However, like all Romanists on this topic you pit God's Word against God's Word to disprove it is God's authoritative Word to man and thus the final authority for faith and practice in order to supplant it by your CHURCH FATHER'S TRADITIONS.

 

[Dr. Walter]

So you resort to proof-texts now? LOL

Just try to prove this is proof texting? I dare you! Place the texts back into their context and prove those texts BY PRINCIPLE do not apply as stated.