Are The Heathen Lost Without The Gospel?

[Alan Dale Gross]

Are The Heathen Lost Without The Gospel?
By Arthur W. Pink (1886-1952)

"Has God more than one way of salvation? Are some saved by faith, and others by works? Will some enter Heaven on the ground of sovereign grace, and others because they lived up to the light that they had?

"Perhaps these questions may seem needless to my readers. But in view of certain things which are frequently coming under the writer's notice, they are, in his judgment, timely. If a certain theory which receives wide credence today could be established, then would God have TWO ways of salvation: one, salvation by grace through faith, and the other, salvation by character through works.

"We refer to a view concerning
THE STATE OF THOSE WHO DIE IN HEATHENDOM.

"It is estimated that there are fifteen hundred million people on the earth at the present time, and that more than half of these are entirely in the dark concerning the true Way of Life. Probably seven hundred million heathen, at least, now alive on earth today, will die in utter ignorance of the "only true God, and Jesus Christ whom He has sent." And this, in the face of the authoritative command of our Saviour and Lord who said of old and who says to us TODAY, "Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to EVERY creature" (Mark 16:15)?

"O, dear Christian Reader, are we not PLAYING at missions? No, that is the wrong way to put it; Have we not BETRAYED our trust? "We were allowed of God to be PUT IN TRUST WITH THE GOSPEL" (I Thessalonians 2:4).

"God has not permitted the angels to be "put in trust with the gospel," but He has ENTRUSTED it to US, and we have basely BETRAYED our "trust."

"We heartily sing, "Amazing Grace, how sweet the sound that saved a wretch like ME." And we continue singing it, seeming to care little or nothing whether our fellow in heathen lands hears the "sweet sound" of saving grace, or not. O what abominable selfishness! God have mercy on our brutal callousness and indifference to the eternal destiny of the poor heathen.

"But the point of this appeal is blunted for many, for they do not really believe the heathen ARE lost without the gospel. They prefer to listen to the sentiments of their own hearts, rather than to the pointed declarations of Holy Scripture.

"The belief that seven hundred millions of our fellow men, now on earth, will be tormented in the Lake of Fire FOREVER AND FOREVER, is too dreadful to be entertained. People will say, and people who are considered as sound in the faith, that, if the heathen who have never heard of Christ do the best that they can, if they will live up to the light they have through nature, and conscience, they shall be saved.

"But this, dear friends, is a lie of the devil. For it, there is not a single plain passage of Scripture. Against it stands every passage in the Bible which defines God's way of salvation.

"What saith the Scriptures? Hear them: "Neither is there salvation in any other; for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved" (Acts 4:12). If then, there is "NONE other name" through which salvation comes, it follows with absolute certainty, that for all in heathendom who know nothing of that Name which is above every name, THERE IS NO SALVATION.

"But, says an objector, "Some of the heathen are very religious; they worship their own gods. It is true that they are woefully ignorant; but will not the One who looks not on the outward appearance but on the heart, accept the sacrifices they make unto their idols?" Again, we ask, What saith the Scriptures? Hear them: "The things which the Gentiles sacrifice, they sacrifice to demons, AND NOT TO GOD" (I Corinthians 10:20)

"Listen again: "As many as have sinned without law," shall what? Be saved if they have lived up to the light they had by nature, and have followed the dictates of their conscience? No, "as many as have sinned without law, SHALL PERISH without law" (Romans 2:12).

"Once more: "It is written. There is none righteous, no not one" (Romans 3:10). The word "righteous" means "up to the required standard." And the Holy Spirit says, "There is NONE righteous." This means that no heathen measures up to the required standard. As the next verse but one goes on to say, "They are ALL gone out of the way."

"Let each reader settle it in his or her mind once for all, that EVERY soul out of Christ IS LOST NOW, and will remain lost for all eternity, if they believe not on the Name of the only begotten Son of God. And, asks the Holy Spirit, "How shall they believe in Him of WHOM THEY HAVE NOT HEARD? And how shall they hear without a preacher" (Romans 10:14).

"And WHAT will be the fate of all in heathendom who die without Christ? They shall be cast "into afurnace of fire, where there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth" (Matthew 13:42). They shall be consigned to that fearful place "where the worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched" (Mark 9:44).

"They shall be "punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord" (II Thessalonians 1:9). Nor is this the worst: "The smoke of their TORMENT ascendeth up FOREVER AND FOREVER: and they have NO REST day nor night" (Revelation 14:11).

"What think ye, dear reader, of these awful passages, which describe the eternal doom of those who die out of Christ? Can you read them unmoved? Can you read them without your heart being deeply stirred and moved to pity? If so, there is grave reason to believe that you yourself are a STRANGER to the saving grace of God.

"And now, Christian reader, what will be your response to this message? You are one of those who have been "put in trust with the gospel."

"Have you been TRUE to your "trust"?

"Will you, right now, look to God earnestly seeking His will, and ask Him what He would have you do, in the matter of carrying or sending the gospel to the heathen?

"May the Lord enlarge your narrow hearts,
and fill them with the COMPASSION of Christ
towards a lost world."

 

[JD731]

Are The Heathen Lost Without The Gospel?
By Arthur W. Pink (1886-1952)

"Has God more than one way of salvation? Are some saved by faith, and others by works? Will some enter Heaven on the ground of sovereign grace, and others because they lived up to the light that they had?

Actually, no one on the earth is lost in the context of ownership of God except those who were owned by God. Those were lost, but God, the owner did not lose them, the stewards whom he appoint to care for and feed them lost them.

Jer 50:6 My people hath been lost sheep: their shepherds have caused them to go astray, they have turned them away on the mountains: they have gone from mountain to hill, they have forgotten their restingplace.

Eze 34:6 My sheep wandered through all the mountains, and upon every high hill: yea, my flock was scattered upon all the face of the earth, and none did search or seek after them.

Jer 50:17 Israel is a scattered sheep; the lions have driven [him] away: first the king of Assyria hath devoured him; and last this Nebuchadrezzar king of Babylon hath broken his bones.

Joh 10:11 I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep.


Mt 15:24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.


Lu 19:10 For the Son of man is come to seek and to save that which was lost.


Eze 34:12 As a shepherd seeketh out his flock in the day that he is among his sheep that are scattered; so will I seek out my sheep, and will deliver them out of all places where they have been scattered in the cloudy and dark day.

The sheep, Israel, is lost because they are God's. No one else can be lost because they are not nor have ever been God's.

Paul, writing 13 letters never says that non Israelites are lost. He uses the term one time in 2 Cor 4:4 in the same context as 2 Cor 3. He does not use the word Shepherd. He uses the word Sheep one time, clearly in the context of the saved remnant of Jews in Ro 8:36.

That's it. I am trying to help you. You are not a sheep or a new Israel. The best advice I can give you is to lose the book by Arthur Pink and try hard to unlearn everything he has ever taught you.

The heathen are separated from God by their sin, but they are not said to be lost.

 

[David Lamb]

Actually, no one on the earth is lost in the context of ownership of God except those who were owned by God. Those were lost, but God, the owner did not lose them, the stewards whom he appoint to care for and feed them lost them.

Jer 50:6 My people hath been lost sheep: their shepherds have caused them to go astray, they have turned them away on the mountains: they have gone from mountain to hill, they have forgotten their restingplace.

Eze 34:6 My sheep wandered through all the mountains, and upon every high hill: yea, my flock was scattered upon all the face of the earth, and none did search or seek after them.

Jer 50:17 Israel is a scattered sheep; the lions have driven [him] away: first the king of Assyria hath devoured him; and last this Nebuchadrezzar king of Babylon hath broken his bones.

Joh 10:11 I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep.


Mt 15:24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.


Lu 19:10 For the Son of man is come to seek and to save that which was lost.


Eze 34:12 As a shepherd seeketh out his flock in the day that he is among his sheep that are scattered; so will I seek out my sheep, and will deliver them out of all places where they have been scattered in the cloudy and dark day.

The sheep, Israel, is lost because they are God's. No one else can be lost because they are not nor have ever been God's.

Paul, writing 13 letters never says that non Israelites are lost. He uses the term one time in 2 Cor 4:4 in the same context as 2 Cor 3. He does not use the word Shepherd. He uses the word Sheep one time, clearly in the context of the saved remnant of Jews in Ro 8:36.

That's it. I am trying to help you. You are not a sheep or a new Israel. The best advice I can give you is to lose the book by Arthur Pink and try hard to unlearn everything he has ever taught you.

The heathen are separated from God by their sin, but they are not said to be lost.

The bible talks about false prophets and false teachers presenting wrong things about the truths of God. Jesus talks of His sheep meaning those who believe on Him. He indicates that the flock is not restricted to natural Israel when He says:

“"And other sheep I have which are not of this fold; them also I must bring, and they will hear My voice; and there will be one flock [and] one shepherd.” (Joh 10:16 NKJV)

He appointed Saul/Paul to preach the gospel to the Gentiles:

“Nevertheless, brethren, I have written more boldly to you on some points, as reminding you, because of the grace given to me by God, that I might be a minister of Jesus Christ to the Gentiles, ministering the gospel of God, that the offering of the Gentiles might be acceptable, sanctified by the Holy Spirit.” (Ro 15:15-16 NKJV)

These things don't fit with your contention that only Israel can be lost, or that only Israelites can be Christ's sheep. Somebody who is a follower of Christ is one of Christ's sheep.

I disagree with your blanket condemnation of Arthur Pink.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

The bible talks about false prophets and false teachers presenting wrong things about the truths of God. Jesus talks of His sheep meaning those who believe on Him. He indicates that the flock is not restricted to natural Israel when He says:

“"And other sheep I have which are not of this fold; them also I must bring, and they will hear My voice; and there will be one flock [and] one shepherd.” (Joh 10:16 NKJV)

He appointed Saul/Paul to preach the gospel to the Gentiles:

“Nevertheless, brethren, I have written more boldly to you on some points, as reminding you, because of the grace given to me by God, that I might be a minister of Jesus Christ to the Gentiles, ministering the gospel of God, that the offering of the Gentiles might be acceptable, sanctified by the Holy Spirit.” (Ro 15:15-16 NKJV)

These things don't fit with your contention that only Israel can be lost, or that only Israelites can be Christ's sheep. Somebody who is a follower of Christ is one of Christ's sheep.

I disagree with your blanket condemnation of Arthur Pink.

This thing we have here has the gall to condemn Arthur Pink….seriously?!? What has become of this board?!?

That's it. I am trying to help you. You are not a sheep or a new Israel. The best advice I can give you is to lose the book by Arthur Pink and try hard to unlearn everything he has ever taught you.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

The bible talks about false prophets and false teachers presenting wrong things about the truths of God. Jesus talks of His sheep meaning those who believe on Him. He indicates that the flock is not restricted to natural Israel when He says:

“"And other sheep I have which are not of this fold; them also I must bring, and they will hear My voice; and there will be one flock [and] one shepherd.” (Joh 10:16 NKJV)

He appointed Saul/Paul to preach the gospel to the Gentiles:

“Nevertheless, brethren, I have written more boldly to you on some points, as reminding you, because of the grace given to me by God, that I might be a minister of Jesus Christ to the Gentiles, ministering the gospel of God, that the offering of the Gentiles might be acceptable, sanctified by the Holy Spirit.” (Ro 15:15-16 NKJV)

These things don't fit with your contention that only Israel can be lost, or that only Israelites can be Christ's sheep. Somebody who is a follower of Christ is one of Christ's sheep.

I disagree with your blanket condemnation of Arthur Pink.

My advice to you seriously is to put the cretin on IGNORE. Ignoramus people belong there. You get 0 edifying conversation from this lot.

 

[JD731]

The bible talks about false prophets and false teachers presenting wrong things about the truths of God. Jesus talks of His sheep meaning those who believe on Him. He indicates that the flock is not restricted to natural Israel when He says:

“"And other sheep I have which are not of this fold; them also I must bring, and they will hear My voice; and there will be one flock [and] one shepherd.” (Joh 10:16 NKJV)

He appointed Saul/Paul to preach the gospel to the Gentiles:

“Nevertheless, brethren, I have written more boldly to you on some points, as reminding you, because of the grace given to me by God, that I might be a minister of Jesus Christ to the Gentiles, ministering the gospel of God, that the offering of the Gentiles might be acceptable, sanctified by the Holy Spirit.” (Ro 15:15-16 NKJV)

These things don't fit with your contention that only Israel can be lost, or that only Israelites can be Christ's sheep. Somebody who is a follower of Christ is one of Christ's sheep.

I disagree with your blanket condemnation of Arthur Pink.

You haven't proven your premise with the verses you quoted. They have nothing to say about gentiles converts being tagged with the sheep metaphor. If you can find one verse that presents gentiles as sheep you will win me over to your side. That should be simple enough for you since you are so sure you are right.

If you cannot find one then it is my contention that you are believing Pink and not God and the two are not teaching the same things. The Reformed are constantly arguing on this forum from the standpoint of their leaders who have written books. Most are offended by my style of offering enough scripture references to establish context for my arguments and thinks my posts are too long.

Israel is a shepherd nation and Jesus Christ is the Good Shepherd and the Great Shepherd. Gentiles are dogs in the metaphorical world of God. You have an entire Old Testament to teach you this and you choose to believe a man who will confuse what God is clearly teaching in his word and refuse to rightly divide the word of God according to the command of God.

Does the fact that Jesus did not come in the flesh to gentiles and never sought them out during his earthly ministry, and said so himself, have any impact on your thinking. Why would you believe doctrines about the Bible that are advanced by men like A. Pink when they have no support from the Bible God the Father, Jesus Christ, the Holy Spirit, and from men who believes the words they read, like these?

Matthew 15:24
But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

Or this

5 These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not:

6 But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

Are you not giving Pink more authority than the Bible and do the historical facts presented by eye witnesses and inspiration of God carry more weight than A Pink and his crowd?

Thre church of Jesus Christ is a post gospel account of God in his bible and it is formed from both Israel and gentiles who will believe the gospel and is a new creation of God where te people from Israel and the people from gentiles are neither sheep nor dogs, but new creations in Christ Jesus via the new birth, which is described as the Holy Spirit indwelling each member and corporately the whole body with each being birthed as sons of God. This is possible now because Jesus Christ died for our sins and his blood washes them away Re 1:5, making our bodies a fit and clean tabernacle for God to dwell in according to the OT type of the tabernacle in the wilderness.

Here is the divine record of what Jesus said to some gentiles in the last days of his earthly ministry when they sought an audience with him.

Pay attention to what I have underlined in the context;

John 12:1 Then Jesus six days before the passover came to Bethany (house of figs), where Lazarus was, which had been dead, whom he raised from the dead.
2 There they made him a supper; and Martha served: but Lazarus was one of them that sat at the table with him.
3 Then took Mary a pound of ointment of spikenard, very costly, and anointed the feet of Jesus, and wiped his feet with her hair: and the house was filled with the odour of the ointment.
4 Then saith one of his disciples, Judas Iscariot, Simon's son, which should betray him,
5 Why was not this ointment sold for three hundred pence, and given to the poor?
6 This he said, not that he cared for the poor; but because he was a thief, and had the bag, and bare what was put therein.
7 Then said Jesus, Let her alone: against the day of my burying hath she kept this.
8 For the poor always ye have with you; but me ye have not always.
9 Much people of the Jews therefore knew that he was there: and they came not for Jesus' sake only, but that they might see Lazarus also, whom he had raised from the dead.
10 But the chief priests consulted that they might put Lazarus also to death;
11 Because that by reason of him many of the Jews went away, and believed on Jesus.
12 On the next day much people that were come to the feast, when they heard that Jesus was coming to Jerusalem,
13 Took branches of palm trees, and went forth to meet him, and cried, Hosanna: Blessed is the King of Israel that cometh in the name of the Lord.
14 And Jesus, when he had found a young ass, sat thereon; as it is written,
15 Fear not, daughter of Sion: behold, thy King cometh, sitting on an ass's colt.
16 These things understood not his disciples at the first: but when Jesus was glorified, then remembered they that these things were written of him, and that they had done these things unto him. (progressive revelation)
17 The people therefore that was with him when he called Lazarus out of his grave, and raised him from the dead, bare record.
18 For this cause the people also met him, for that they heard that he had done this miracle.
19 The Pharisees therefore said among themselves, Perceive ye how ye prevail nothing? behold, the world is gone after him.
20 And there were certain Greeks among them that came up to worship at the feast:
21 The same came therefore to Philip, which was of Bethsaida of Galilee (house of fish & home of Phillip, Andrew, Peter, and John), and desired him, saying, Sir, we would see Jesus.
22 Philip cometh and telleth Andrew: and again Andrew and Philip tell Jesus.
23 And Jesus answered them, saying, The hour is come, that the Son of man should be glorified.
24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except a corn of wheat fall into the ground and die, it abideth alone: but if it die, it bringeth forth much fruit.
25 He that loveth his life shall lose it; and he that hateth his life in this world shall keep it unto life eternal.
26 If any man serve me, let him follow me; and where I am, there shall also my servant be: if any man serve me, him will my Father honour.
27 Now is my soul troubled; and what shall I say? Father, save me from this hour: but for this cause came I unto this hour.
28 Father, glorify thy name. Then came there a voice from heaven, saying, I have both glorified it, and will glorify it again.

Jesus did not recieve these gentiles because it was not time to receive them. He could not save them while he was in the flesh. If he could he would have saved Israel that way. His body must be put into the ground and die but the glorified Jesus can save gentiles after he has risen from the dead. This is the imagery. Jesus did not come to gentiles. What could he do for them? There was no promises made to them that he was bound to fulfill. Israel had many promises that he would filfill because of previous promises to them. When he received gentiles much later and after his resurrection, it was a matter of pure grace, because God is good. Ps 145:9

29 The people therefore, that stood by, and heard it, said that it thundered: others said, An angel spake to him.
30 Jesus answered and said, This voice came not because of me, but for your sakes.
31 Now is the judgment of this world: now shall the prince of this world be cast out.
32 And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.
33 This he said, signifying what death he should die.
34 The people answered him, We have heard out of the law that Christ abideth for ever: and how sayest thou, The Son of man must be lifted up? who is this Son of man?
35 Then Jesus said unto them, Yet a little while is the light with you. Walk while ye have the light, lest darkness come upon you: for he that walketh in darkness knoweth not whither he goeth.
36 While ye have light, believe in the light, that ye may be the children of light. These things spake Jesus, and departed, and did hide himself from them.
37 But though he had done so many miracles before them, yet they believed not on him:


Pink has not told the truth about God and his ways, therefore the Reformed have not told the truth..

Please understand that I am being honest, not mean spirited. I do care about the truth.

 

[ParticularWife]

Today, the Heathen is probably your neighbor. America is a nation of pagan idolatry.

 

[JD731]

The bible talks about false prophets and false teachers presenting wrong things about the truths of God. Jesus talks of His sheep meaning those who believe on Him. He indicates that the flock is not restricted to natural Israel when He says:

“"And other sheep I have which are not of this fold; them also I must bring, and they will hear My voice; and there will be one flock [and] one shepherd.” (Joh 10:16 NKJV)

He appointed Saul/Paul to preach the gospel to the Gentiles:

“Nevertheless, brethren, I have written more boldly to you on some points, as reminding you, because of the grace given to me by God, that I might be a minister of Jesus Christ to the Gentiles, ministering the gospel of God, that the offering of the Gentiles might be acceptable, sanctified by the Holy Spirit.” (Ro 15:15-16 NKJV)

These things don't fit with your contention that only Israel can be lost, or that only Israelites can be Christ's sheep. Somebody who is a follower of Christ is one of Christ's sheep.

I disagree with your blanket condemnation of Arthur Pink.

I might add this, David, about the two flocks. Gentiles are hardly mentioned in the gospel accounts and they are not written about the church of Jesus Christ. They are written about the kingdom of Jesus Christ. The gospels are political. The message of John the Baptist is, "the kingdom of heaven is at hand because the King is among us." The metphor os sheep is in the context of the nation, the people of God.

They were a divided kingdom after Solomon died and later the northern kingdom called Israel was dispersed out of the land and lost her national identity and was said of God, "not my people and I will not be your God." However, in the same breath he said these words. I will quote a couple verses but you may read the context if interested.

Hosea 1:6 And she conceived again, and bare a daughter. And God said unto him, Call her name Loruhamah: for I will no more have mercy upon the house of Israel; but I will utterly take them away.
7 But I will have mercy upon the house of Judah, and will save them by the Lord their God, and will not save them by bow, nor by sword, nor by battle, by horses, nor by horsemen.
8 Now when she had weaned Loruhamah, she conceived, and bare a son.
9 Then said God, Call his name Loammi: for ye are not my people, and I will not be your God.
10 Yet the number of the children of Israel shall be as the sand of the sea, which cannot be measured nor numbered; and it shall come to pass, that in the place where it was said unto them, Ye are not my people, there it shall be said unto them, Ye are the sons of the living God.
11 Then shall the children of Judah and the children of Israel be gathered together, and appoint themselves one head, and they shall come up out of the land: for great shall be the day of Jezreel.

The prophet Hosea did not see creation of the new man, the church, between verses 9 and 10 during which a remnant of both of these people, Judah, who had a national identity, and Israel (the ten tribes), who were called "strangers and forigners" in a strange land, which is the time we are living in now. Peter and the other 11 apostles were sent to these people and Peter did refer to them as a nation.

1 Peter 2:9
But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light;

This is the other fold that Jesus spake of. The church are not a fold as it pertains to sheep. The church of Jesus Christ has a gentile character and is a gentile bride he is forming according to several OT types.

Think about these things. They are all logical.

 

[JD731]

The bible talks about false prophets and false teachers presenting wrong things about the truths of God. Jesus talks of His sheep meaning those who believe on Him. He indicates that the flock is not restricted to natural Israel when He says:

“"And other sheep I have which are not of this fold; them also I must bring, and they will hear My voice; and there will be one flock [and] one shepherd.” (Joh 10:16 NKJV)

He appointed Saul/Paul to preach the gospel to the Gentiles:

“Nevertheless, brethren, I have written more boldly to you on some points, as reminding you, because of the grace given to me by God, that I might be a minister of Jesus Christ to the Gentiles, ministering the gospel of God, that the offering of the Gentiles might be acceptable, sanctified by the Holy Spirit.” (Ro 15:15-16 NKJV)

These things don't fit with your contention that only Israel can be lost, or that only Israelites can be Christ's sheep. Somebody who is a follower of Christ is one of Christ's sheep.

I disagree with your blanket condemnation of Arthur Pink.

I might add this, David, about the two flocks. Gentiles are hardly mentioned in the gospel accounts and they are not written about the church of Jesus Christ. They are written about the kingdom of Jesus Christ. The gospels are political. The message of John the Baptist is, "the kingdom of heaven is at hand because the King is among us." The metphor os sheep is in the context of the nation, the people of God.

They were a divided kingdom after Solomon died and later the northern kingdom called Israel was dispersed out of the land and lost her national identity and was said of God, "not my people and I will not be your God." However, in the same breath he said these words. I will quote a couple verses but you may read the context if interested.

Hosea 1:6 And she conceived again, and bare a daughter. And God said unto him, Call her name Loruhamah: for I will no more have mercy upon the house of Israel; but I will utterly take them away.
7 But I will have mercy upon the house of Judah, and will save them by the Lord their God, and will not save them by bow, nor by sword, nor by battle, by horses, nor by horsemen.
8 Now when she had weaned Loruhamah, she conceived, and bare a son.
9 Then said God, Call his name Loammi: for ye are not my people, and I will not be your God.
10 Yet the number of the children of Israel shall be as the sand of the sea, which cannot be measured nor numbered; and it shall come to pass, that in the place where it was said unto them, Ye are not my people, there it shall be said unto them, Ye are the sons of the living God.
11 Then shall the children of Judah and the children of Israel be gathered together, and appoint themselves one head, and they shall come up out of the land: for great shall be the day of Jezreel.

The prophet Hosea did not see creation of the new man, the church, between verses 9 and 10 during which a remnant of both of these people, Judah, who had a national identity, and Israel (the ten tribes), who were called "strangers and forigners" in a strange land, which is the time we are living in now. Peter and the other 11 apostles were sent to these people and Peter did refer to them as a nation.

1 Peter 2:9
But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light;

This is the other fold that Jesus spake of. The church are not a fold as it pertains to sheep. The church of Jesus Christ has a gentile character and is a gentile bride he is forming according to several OT types.

Think about these things. They are all logical.

 

[Martin Marprelate]

Think about these things. They are all logical.

Actually, they are not. The northern kingdom was taken away and presumably merged into the surrounding nations. If that didn't happen, where is it. Point the people out to us so that when they merge with Judah, we shall know it.
But all the stuff you've posted has already been refuted. Verses like Ephesians 2:11-22; Romans 2:28-29; Galatians 3:7 and so forth are as clear as day. 'For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus....... There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus. And if you are Christ's then you are Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise' (Galatians 3:26-29).

Matthew 15:24
But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

Let's just think about this for a moment. Why did our Lord Go to 'the region of Tyre and Sidon'? It appears that He did nothing else while He was there but meet this woman of Canaan (Matt. 15:21-28). There is something very important in this meeting to make our Lord go so far out of His way. First of all, she shows her faith; she calls Him 'Lord' and 'Son of David' (v.22). His disciples urge Him to send her away (v.23), but He doesn't. Instead, He says, "I was not sent except to the lost sheep of the house of Israel" (v.24). Now if He helps this woman, He is disobeying the Father who sent Him. If she goes away now, that's an end to it. But she persists, and actually worships Him (v.25). And even when He tests her further in v.26, she will not give up. By her faith, she proves herself to be a true Israelite, and a son of God (woman though she is) through faith in Christ Jesus. Therefore our Lord answers her prayer.

Now go back to only the second miracle of our Lord after His Sermon on the Mount (Matthew 8:5-13), and lo and behold! The Lord Jesus answers a gentile's prayer by healing his servant, and He says, "Assuredly, I say to you, I have not found such great faith, even in Israel. And I say to you that many will come from the east and the west, and sit down with Abraham, Isaac and Jacob in the kingdom of heaven, but the sons of the kingdom will be cast out into outer darkness. There will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.'
And so it has turned out. The gentiles have come into the kingdom from east and west as the true descendants of Abraham by faith (Gal. 3:7), while the Jews, for 2,000 years, have not had a temple to worship in or offer sacrifices.

I could go on, but it's bedtime in England. I may write some more tomorrow if time permits.

 

[JD731]

1) Actually, they are not. The northern kingdom was taken away and presumably merged into the surrounding nations. If that didn't happen, where is it. Point the people out to us so that when they merge with Judah, we shall know it.
But all the stuff you've posted has already been refuted. Verses like Ephesians 2:11-22; Romans 2:28-29; Galatians 3:7 and so forth are as clear as day. 'For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus....... There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus. And if you are Christ's then you are Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise' (Galatians 3:26-29).


2) Let's just think about this for a moment. Why did our Lord Go to 'the region of Tyre and Sidon'? It appears that He did nothing else while He was there but meet this woman of Canaan (Matt. 15:21-28). There is something very important in this meeting to make our Lord go so far out of His way. First of all, she shows her faith; she calls Him 'Lord' and 'Son of David' (v.22). His disciples urge Him to send her away (v.23), but He doesn't. Instead, He says, "I was not sent except to the lost sheep of the house of Israel" (v.24). Now if He helps this woman, He is disobeying the Father who sent Him. If she goes away now, that's an end to it. But she persists, and actually worships Him (v.25). And even when He tests her further in v.26, she will not give up. By her faith, she proves herself to be a true Israelite, and a son of God (woman though she is) through faith in Christ Jesus. Therefore our Lord answers her prayer.

3) Now go back to only the second miracle of our Lord after His Sermon on the Mount (Matthew 8:5-13), and lo and behold! The Lord Jesus answers a gentile's prayer by healing his servant, and He says, "Assuredly, I say to you, I have not found such great faith, even in Israel. And I say to you that many will come from the east and the west, and sit down with Abraham, Isaac and Jacob in the kingdom of heaven, but the sons of the kingdom will be cast out into outer darkness. There will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.'
And so it has turned out. The gentiles have come into the kingdom from east and west as the true descendants of Abraham by faith (Gal. 3:7), while the Jews, for 2,000 years, have not had a temple to worship in or offer sacrifices.

I could go on, but it's bedtime in England. I may write some more tomorrow if time permits.

Paragraph 1)

I have already dealt with these things over and over and will not spend much time here. When you quote Ga 3:26-29 above, I will call your attention to the fact that Galatians was the first of Paul's 13 letters. It was written in AD 49. OTOH, Romans was written in AD 58, nine years later, and I will quote the Apostle Paul, who wrote both of these letters.

Ro 10:21 But to Israel he saith, (AD 58) All day long I have stretched forth my hands unto a disobedient and gainsaying people.
Ro 11:1 I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I (the apostle Paul) also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.
Ro 11:5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant (of Israelites of whom Paul is one) according to the election of grace.

So then, 21 years after he was saved on the Damascus road he says from his own pen that he is two things; 1) he is a Christian, and #2, he is an Israelite and of the smaller remnant from the nation that he calls "the remnant according to the election of grace.

Here is some sarcasm for you, and please bear with me on it;

If your cannot follow the logic of the scriptures better than you are doing you should demand your money back from your educators.
There are Jews and gentiles in the church of Jesus Christ after they are saved or words are worthless in the scriptures. The context of Galatians is that the standing of all those classes are equal. They are the children of God.

Paragraph 2)
Using words like "clearly" indicates you are making things up while you refuse to reason things out. All things recorded in scripture has reason and prophetic purpose. He did not go that region to turn a gentile woman into a jew. You made that up and the text does not even hint at that conclusion.

According to the Reformed, faith is given to people so they can believe Jesus Christ. If this is so, which it is not, this makes our Lord appear as a snake oil salesman. He, Jesus, appears surprised at her great faith. That would be more than a little misleading if your doctrines are true. He faked us out.

But the scriptures says he came to seek and save that which was lost and we are told it is the sheep that are lost and we are told Israel are the sheep of God. This woman was not one and the record is that she sought Jesus. This is different. Jesus did not answer her and he was advised to chase her away because of her pleading. When she was brought to him she addressed him as the son of David. This is the reason he had not answered her. She did not have the credentials at that time before he died and rose again to receive anything from him under that appeal. There was no promises made to gentiles.
Then this woman addressed him in a way gentiles must address him, and that is by the title "Lord." This is the reason this is in our Bibles. This title suggests a bended knee and willing submission to his person and not just his title. Jesus Christ must be Lord over us before he is anything else and the Lordship of Christ is a matter of the heart. This is the major thing God wants us to see in this exchange and he answered her prayers by his kindness, goodness, and his grace towards her and applauded her faith and gave her an everlasting testimony. She believed something that you don't. She believed all that she heard of him according to his pedigree.
You are ignorantly worshipping him, Martin while ignoring things that does not fit your desired theological system.

Paragraph 3)
I will just say about #3, it is by your own admission "the sermon on the mount" about a kingdom that is not present yet but is future. You admit that in your presentation. Jesus, the king, was in the midst of Israel but the kingdom of heaven was somewhere out in the future. Then Jesus says what will happen when the kingdom of heaven does come. Gentiles will come from all over the world and sit down with Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob and many of their people replaced by gentiles because they are sent to hell.

Here is your conclusion;

And so it has turned out. The gentiles have come into the kingdom from east and west as the true descendants of Abraham by faith (Gal. 3:7), while the Jews, for 2,000 years, have not had a temple to worship in or offer sacrifices.

Now, I do not know about you but I have not met Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob and if one can sit down with them I do not know of it happening yet. There is a kingdom out there in the future where the resurrected Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob will be and gentiles will be in it and the kingdom itself will be purged of all rebels and unbelievers.

The church is a totally separate entity in the kingdom. It is a spiritual and an heavenly entity.

Having said all that I do not expect it to move you, but I have told you the truth. There is a plan that is unfolding exactly on track.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Today, the Heathen is probably your neighbor. America is a nation of pagan idolatry.

Absolutely…. So doyou know who James MontgomeryBoise is by chance? Just wondering

 

[ParticularWife]

Absolutely…. So doyou know who James MontgomeryBoise is by chance? Just wondering

Heard of Boice, but never heard him.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Heard of Boice, but never heard him.

That’s cause he is dead. How about Sinclair Ferguson? He taught at Westminster university in PA. Witty and great man of intellect.

 

[ParticularWife]

That’s cause he is dead. How about Sinclair Ferguson? He taught at Westminster university in PA. Witty and great man of intellect.

I have encountered the writings of some Protestant theologians, primarily those considered more gospel-centered. My exposure is selective.

Among past figures, I am familiar with Luther, Zwingli, Calvin, Gill, Vos, and Hoeksema. Their voluminous works are beyond my mastery. I primarily engage their systematic and dogmatic writings. I have also encountered Frame, Clarke, Van Til, Spurgeon, and Turretin, though less extensively.

Contemporary sources include faculty at Reformed Theological Seminary (OPC), such as Duncan, Bucey, and Tipton; Waldron at Covenant Baptist Seminary; Beeke at Puritan Reformed and Mid-America Seminaries; Engelsma at Protestant Reformed Seminary; and various Particular Baptist figures, including those associated with the Gospel Standard.

I consume sermons and theological recordings from diverse Reformed and Baptist sources, occasionally including evangelical voices like Bauder.

 

[Scripture More Accurately]

You haven't proven your premise with the verses you quoted. They have nothing to say about gentiles converts being tagged with the sheep metaphor. If you can find one verse that presents gentiles as sheep you will win me over to your side. That should be simple enough for you since you are so sure you are right.

I have no interest in discussing the merits of Pink or reformed theology or any other such things. My interest is solely on letting the Bible speak for itself.

In Miletus, Paul spoke of the church of God in Ephesus as the flock over whom the Spirit made the elders overseers:

Acts 20:17 And from Miletus he sent to Ephesus, and called the elders of the church.

Acts 20:28 Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood. 29 For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock.

There is no legitimate way to hold that all the believers in Ephesus were Jewish converts. Paul spoke of all believers in the church at Ephesus as being the flock. He also spoke of wolves who seek to devour the flock, which is plainly terminology that denotes that the believers in Ephesus were sheep.

In fact, Paul explicitly informs us in Ephesians that the believers in the church in Ephesus were formerly Gentiles:

Ephesians 2:11 Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;

Moreover, writing to believers that were scattered widely, Peter says the same things that Paul did--all the believers in all those places were the flock of God.

1 Peter 1:1 Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, to the strangers scattered throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia,

1 Peter 5:2 Feed the flock of God which is among you, taking the oversight thereof, not by constraint, but willingly; not for filthy lucre, but of a ready mind; 3 Neither as being lords over God's heritage, but being ensamples to the flock.

The assertion that Gentile converts are never viewed in Scripture as sheep who are part of God's flock is not supported by Scripture.

 

[David Lamb]

You haven't proven your premise with the verses you quoted. They have nothing to say about gentiles converts being tagged with the sheep metaphor. If you can find one verse that presents gentiles as sheep you will win me over to your side. That should be simple enough for you since you are so sure you are right.

If you cannot find one then it is my contention that you are believing Pink and not God and the two are not teaching the same things. The Reformed are constantly arguing on this forum from the standpoint of their leaders who have written books. Most are offended by my style of offering enough scripture references to establish context for my arguments and thinks my posts are too long.

Israel is a shepherd nation and Jesus Christ is the Good Shepherd and the Great Shepherd. Gentiles are dogs in the metaphorical world of God. You have an entire Old Testament to teach you this and you choose to believe a man who will confuse what God is clearly teaching in his word and refuse to rightly divide the word of God according to the command of God.

Does the fact that Jesus did not come in the flesh to gentiles and never sought them out during his earthly ministry, and said so himself, have any impact on your thinking. Why would you believe doctrines about the Bible that are advanced by men like A. Pink when they have no support from the Bible God the Father, Jesus Christ, the Holy Spirit, and from men who believes the words they read, like these?

Matthew 15:24
But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

Or this

5 These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not:

6 But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

Are you not giving Pink more authority than the Bible and do the historical facts presented by eye witnesses and inspiration of God carry more weight than A Pink and his crowd?

Thre church of Jesus Christ is a post gospel account of God in his bible and it is formed from both Israel and gentiles who will believe the gospel and is a new creation of God where te people from Israel and the people from gentiles are neither sheep nor dogs, but new creations in Christ Jesus via the new birth, which is described as the Holy Spirit indwelling each member and corporately the whole body with each being birthed as sons of God. This is possible now because Jesus Christ died for our sins and his blood washes them away Re 1:5, making our bodies a fit and clean tabernacle for God to dwell in according to the OT type of the tabernacle in the wilderness.

Here is the divine record of what Jesus said to some gentiles in the last days of his earthly ministry when they sought an audience with him.

Pay attention to what I have underlined in the context;


Jesus did not recieve these gentiles because it was not time to receive them. He could not save them while he was in the flesh. If he could he would have saved Israel that way. His body must be put into the ground and die but the glorified Jesus can save gentiles after he has risen from the dead. This is the imagery. Jesus did not come to gentiles. What could he do for them? There was no promises made to them that he was bound to fulfill. Israel had many promises that he would filfill because of previous promises to them. When he received gentiles much later and after his resurrection, it was a matter of pure grace, because God is good. Ps 145:9

29 The people therefore, that stood by, and heard it, said that it thundered: others said, An angel spake to him.
30 Jesus answered and said, This voice came not because of me, but for your sakes.
31 Now is the judgment of this world: now shall the prince of this world be cast out.
32 And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.
33 This he said, signifying what death he should die.
34 The people answered him, We have heard out of the law that Christ abideth for ever: and how sayest thou, The Son of man must be lifted up? who is this Son of man?
35 Then Jesus said unto them, Yet a little while is the light with you. Walk while ye have the light, lest darkness come upon you: for he that walketh in darkness knoweth not whither he goeth.
36 While ye have light, believe in the light, that ye may be the children of light. These things spake Jesus, and departed, and did hide himself from them.
37 But though he had done so many miracles before them, yet they believed not on him:


Pink has not told the truth about God and his ways, therefore the Reformed have not told the truth..

Please understand that I am being honest, not mean spirited. I do care about the truth.

Although I have read some books by Pink, I have never read him saying that gentile converts are among Christ's sheep, though I am sure he believes that. I believe it because Jesus said so. He said that He had other sheep "not of this fold", i.e. not Jews. He also said:

“Then Jesus said to them again, "Most assuredly, I say to you, I am the door of the sheep. "All who [ever] came before Me are thieves and robbers, but the sheep did not hear them. "I am the door. If anyone enters by Me, he will be saved, and will go in and out and find pasture.” (Joh 10:7-9 NKJV)

"If anyone enters by Me," not "If any Israelite enters by Me."

Yes, to the Jews, Gentiles were counted as "dogs". I don't think they are to God. Remember Jesus did interact with gentiles, and on one occasion this matter of "dogs" came up:

“And behold, a woman of Canaan came from that region and cried out to Him, saying, "Have mercy on me, O Lord, Son of David! My daughter is severely demon-possessed." But He answered her not a word. And His disciples came and urged Him, saying, "Send her away, for she cries out after us." But He answered and said, "I was not sent except to the lost sheep of the house of Israel." Then she came and worshiped Him, saying, "Lord, help me!" But He answered and said, "It is not good to take the children’s bread and throw [it] to the little dogs." And she said, "Yes, Lord, yet even the little dogs eat the crumbs which fall from their masters’ table." Then Jesus answered and said to her, "O woman, great [is] your faith! Let it be to you as you desire." And her daughter was healed from that very hour.” (Mt 15:22-28 NKJV)

Then there was the Roman centurion, to whom Jesus said:

“When Jesus heard [it], He marveled, and said to those who followed, "Assuredly, I say to you, I have not found such great faith, not even in Israel! "And I say to you that many will come from east and west, and sit down with Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob in the kingdom of heaven. "But the sons of the kingdom will be cast out into outer darkness. There will be weeping and gnashing of teeth."” (Mt 8:10-12 NKJV)

So He did receive Gentiles, and your contention that He could not save them is wrong. As for there being no promises to gentiles, Simeon would disagree with you:

“"Lord, now You are letting Your servant depart in peace, According to Your word; For my eyes have seen Your salvation Which You have prepared before the face of all peoples, A light to [bring] revelation to the Gentiles, And the glory of Your people Israel."” (Lu 2:29-32 NKJV)

This was based on the prophecy of Isaiah:

“Indeed He says, ‘It is too small a thing that You should be My Servant To raise up the tribes of Jacob, And to restore the preserved ones of Israel; I will also give You as a light to the Gentiles, That You should be My salvation to the ends of the earth.’"” (Isa 49:6 NKJV)

 

[Martin Marprelate]

If you can find one verse that presents gentiles as sheep you will win me over to your side. That should be simple enough for you since you are so sure you are right.

@David Lamb has already quoted John 10:16 to you, and @Scripture More Accurately has quoted Acts 20:28-29. Ephesus was a largely gentile church (Eph. 2:11ff), so Paul must have been referring to gentiles.
So you should now be won over to the Scriptural side of the argument. However, I'm not holding my breath. Proverbs 27:22 applies.

Here is some sarcasm for you, and please bear with me on it;

I am always pleased when people I am discussing with resort to insult or sarcasm. It means that they have lost confidence in their arguments.

 

[JD731]

It means that they have lost confidence in their arguments.

It is you who is arguing, it is I who am reasoning from the scriptures.

The problem as I see it is that the rules of language does not apply to you. I, and the scriptures have lost the argument with you because of this. Pink, and the other intellectuals have far more authority over your thinking than do the scriptures. We have 39 books in the OT that explains the beginning of the nation and people and family of Israel and what God's purpose in raising it up and the things he intends to accomplish through them, which is to reverse the corruption of his creation that resulted in the first Adam's sin and to restore it to it's pristine condition through the second Adam, Jesus Christ. This restoration, according to the scriptures, includes the dominion over the earth.

For some reason the Reformed have missed the OT history and have not recognized the stated purposes of God through Israel and everlasting promises to them and have assigned new definitions to the words of God. They present themselves as the new Israel, the sheep of God's pasture, a select and pre-chosen group, few in number, but uniquely the object of God's eternal salvation with the exclusion of all others not so designated in eternity past. Your position renders God's purposes through Israel and his promises to them as null and void. The Reformed would have been better off without an OT, IMO.

Under these circumstances I conclude that you and I preach two different gospels and I could not convince you of the truth through reason.

As I said, it is my opinion.

 

[JD731]

I have no interest in discussing the merits of Pink or reformed theology or any other such things. My interest is solely on letting the Bible speak for itself.

In Miletus, Paul spoke of the church of God in Ephesus as the flock over whom the Spirit made the elders overseers:

Acts 20:17 And from Miletus he sent to Ephesus, and called the elders of the church.

Acts 20:28 Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood. 29 For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock.

There is no legitimate way to hold that all the believers in Ephesus were Jewish converts. Paul spoke of all believers in the church at Ephesus as being the flock. He also spoke of wolves who seek to devour the flock, which is plainly terminology that denotes that the believers in Ephesus were sheep.

In fact, Paul explicitly informs us in Ephesians that the believers in the church in Ephesus were formerly Gentiles:

Ephesians 2:11 Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;

Moreover, writing to believers that were scattered widely, Peter says the same things that Paul did--all the believers in all those places were the flock of God.

1 Peter 1:1 Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, to the strangers scattered throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia,

1 Peter 5:2 Feed the flock of God which is among you, taking the oversight thereof, not by constraint, but willingly; not for filthy lucre, but of a ready mind; 3 Neither as being lords over God's heritage, but being ensamples to the flock.

The assertion that Gentile converts are never viewed in Scripture as sheep who are part of God's flock is not supported by Scripture.

The residents of Ephesus were designated by the apostle Paul in the same manner as that area was addressed by Peter in his two letters. Peter addressed those in Asia minor in the following way.

1Pe 1:1 ¶ Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, to the strangers scattered throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia,
2Pe 3:1 ¶ This second epistle, beloved, I now write unto you; in both which I stir up your pure minds by way of remembrance:

These letters were both written to the same people by two different apostles. One of the apostles, Paul, addressed them as gentiles and the other addressed them as those who had covenants with God, Peter. In both cases they were strangers and pilgrims in a strange land, because that is what a foreigner is. Paul gives them the benefits of being "in Christ" a Christian, and Peter points them to the inheritance of peace in their kingdom with Christ when they will be restored. This is just a fact.

Eph211 ¶ Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past (before Christ came) Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands (the Jews);
12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:
13 But now in Christ (in his body) Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.

14 ¶ For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;
15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;
16 And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:
17 And came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that were nigh.
18 For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father.
19 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God;
20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner [stone];
21 In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord:
22 In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.

In the economy of God, a member of his people Israel who was in another land and cut off from their covenants and ability to experience the temple worship of Jehovah was considered a gentile. These first Christians were of the extract of Jacob but they were strangers and here we are seeing prophecy being fulfilled that God was going to make them, the north and the south, one again spiritually and later, physically as well. Note this prophecy to the north.

Hosea 1:7 But I will have mercy upon the house of Judah, and will save them by the LORD their God, and will not save them by bow, nor by sword, nor by battle, by horses, nor by horsemen.
8 ¶ Now when she had weaned Loruhamah, she conceived, and bare a son.
9 Then said God, Call his name Loammi: for ye are not my people, and I will not be your God.
10 Yet the number of the children of Israel shall be as the sand of the sea, which cannot be measured nor numbered; and it shall come to pass, [that] in the place where it was said unto them, Ye are not my people, there it shall be said unto them, Ye are the sons of the living God.
11 Then shall the children of Judah and the children of Israel be gathered together, and appoint themselves one head, and they shall come up out of the land: for great shall be the day of Jezreel.


The gentiles in Romans nine (9) are these people and God through Christ is having mercy on them. Hosea 1 is actually quoted by Paul in that chapter.

The first people in the kingdom of heaven are the Jews and then Israel and then the gentiles. Paul would preach in that region nearly 14 years on his first missionary journey before he headed West to Europe where the gentiles live on his second campaign, directed by God.

God never does anything without a purpose and the separation of Israel into two kingdoms was his way of clearing a path for you and me to be saved today through the open door of faith to the whole world.

Mic 2:12 I will surely assemble, O Jacob, all of thee; I will surely gather the remnant of Israel; I will put them together as the sheep of Bozrah, as the flock in the midst of their fold: they shall make great noise by reason of the multitude of men.

These people are the other flock of John 10. Jesus there is not speaking of the church when he puts Judah and Israel together after gathering them from the four 4) corners of the earth after he purges them.

I know you will probably not put these things together and understand them because your teachers have not taught you about the love of God the Father for Israel.