Are the souls of men the fallen heavenly hosts?

[Sapper Woody]

What kind of Baptist are you?

Seems more Mormon than Baptist, to be honest. The Mormon belief is that we, as men, are the angels that stayed with God when Satan fell. The demons are the third that fell. Incidentally, old Mormon teaching believed that black people could not be saved because they were a third of the angels who remained neutral.

Edited to change "then" to "than".

 

[Aaron]

From previous postings I have place this in it's own thread

, Have you considered that the souls of men are the fallen heavenly host? Proof or disproof?
How does this one statement change ant teachings.

Can "fallen angels" be saved , why or why not?



Please be prepared to discus your positions

*sigh*
God formed Adam from the dust of the ground and breathed life into him. Men are not fallen angels.

Holy freakin' cow!

 

[tyndale1946]

*sigh*
God formed Adam from the dust of the ground and breathed life into him. Men are not fallen angels.

Holy freakin' cow!

If you are on here long enough you get to hear all sorts of strange ideas... I agree with you Aaron!... Cowabunga!... Brother Glen

 

[TomLaPalm]

Seems more Mormon than Baptist, to be honest. The Mormon belief is that we, as men, are the angels that stayed with God when Satan fell. The demons are the third that fell. Incidentally, old Mormon teaching believed that black people could not be saved because they were a third of the angels who remained neutral.

Edited to change "then" to "than".

But that is just the opposite of the OP, This is saying WE are the ones that sinned and were condemned and cast into darkness,(actually darkness was created for us) Gen 1. The "angels" that fell are sinners, We are sinners, Did God choose to redeem one set of created beings, and not another? and yet God is not a respecter of persons ?

How about God paid for ALL sin. Sin is spiritual not physical.

Actually Mormonism is closer Islam than it is to Christianity

 

[TomLaPalm]

*sigh*
God formed Adam from the dust of the ground and breathed life into him. Men are not fallen angels.

Holy freakin' cow!

When was a soul created? Man is more than flesh and blood.

 

[TomLaPalm]

If you are on here long enough you get to hear all sorts of strange ideas... I agree with you Aaron!... Cowabunga!... Brother Glen

Job 32:9

Great men are not always wise: neither do the aged understand judgment.


So it is your position that God creates man, places him in the same place as those who were already condemned, and watches man fall just so He can save some and send others to eternal torment?

Basically, God created some, and being omniscient , send to torment them eternally?

sound like a lie of the devil to impune God's righteousness.

 

[Aaron]

When was a soul created? Man is more than flesh and blood.

On the sixth day.

And man became a living soul.

Your parentage begins with Adam, not Gabriel. Wherever it is you're getting your wacko, superstitious ideas, it ain't the Bible. Leave it now before it's too late.

 

[TomLaPalm]

Actually the emphasis is on "living" soul. as opposed to the spiritually "dead" soul that he was before being quickened .

Jesus said one must be born of flesh first, to be born of the spirit second.

Do you understand?

 

[Aaron]

You don't get that from the text. I understand that much.

[edited]

 

[tyndale1946]

On the sixth day.

And man became a living soul.

Your parentage begins with Adam, not Gabriel. Wherever it is you're getting your wacko, superstitious ideas, it ain't the Bible. Leave it now before it's too late.

I agree and here is a scripture that covers that!... Brother Glen

Deuteronomy 29:29 The secret things belong unto the LORD our God: but those things which are revealed belong unto us and to our children for ever, that we may do all the words of this law.

 

[TomLaPalm]

On the sixth day.

And man became a living soul.

Your parentage begins with Adam, not Gabriel. Wherever it is you're getting your wacko, superstitious ideas, it ain't the Bible. Leave it now before it's too late.

You are not related to Gabriel, thee is NO RELATION AMONG THE HOST of Heaven. We are All unique individual creation. GOD is Father to all He created.

 

[TomLaPalm]

I agree and here is a scripture that covers that!... Brother Glen

Deuteronomy 29:29 The secret things belong unto the LORD our God: but those things which are revealed belong unto us and to our children for ever, that we may do all the words of this law.

It is plainly revealed,

Jesus says John 10:34 Ye are gods ("elohyim")

 

[Aaron]

You are not related to Gabriel, thee is NO RELATION AMONG THE HOST of Heaven. We are All unique individual creation. GOD is Father to all He created.

There is a Father. There is a Son. We are all brothers.

Do you just make this [edited] up as you go? Tell you what. In your next reply start with the text of Scripture, and tell us how you are led to the conclusions you're asserting here by the text. Are you able to do that?

 

[ReformedBaptist]

Not for me, I hope, but study it for yourself. Remember Jesus comments, though recorded for us in Greek He was quoted Hebrew from Psalms

Tom, I really don't need to do this for myself. It would have been for your sake. I know what the Scriptures teach. And while the Greek and Hebrew do help shed light on passages, the English translations we have are quite good so that no essential meaning is "lost in translation" so to speak. That is, unless folks want to read into the texts something that really isn't there.

 

[TCassidy]

“I have said, ye are gods.” The greatest honour was thus put upon them; they were delegated gods, clothed for a while with a little of that authority by which the Lord judges among the sons of men. “And all of you are children of the Most High.” This was their ex-officio character, not their moral or spiritual relationship. There must be some government among men, and as angels are not sent to dispense it, God allows men to rule over men, and endorses their office, so far at least that the prostitution of it becomes an insult to his own prerogatives. (The Treasury of David by Charles Spurgeon)

 

[TomLaPalm]

“I have said, ye are gods.” The greatest honour was thus put upon them; they were delegated gods, clothed for a while with a little of that authority by which the Lord judges among the sons of men. “And all of you are children of the Most High.” This was their ex-officio character, not their moral or spiritual relationship. There must be some government among men, and as angels are not sent to dispense it, God allows men to rule over men, and endorses their office, so far at least that the prostitution of it becomes an insult to his own prerogatives. (The Treasury of David by Charles Spurgeon)

Thanks for an intelligent response, I believe I have read this from Sprugeon long ago, it is applying one circumstance to other uses. It is correctly applied as men as judges in ceremonial matters (as compared to civil judges ) However, "yea are gods" of these verses mentioned and "sons of god" is referring to sinful ex heavenly beings or spiritual aspects of men. In Psalms 82 God is clearly speaking in heaven to heavenly beings, yet Jesus is responding to accusation of blasphemy, speaking to evil men the same words.

notice Job 38:7 There are two groups that responded to physical creation, one group represented by the light in heaven sang , the other shouted with surprise.

gods. sons of gods ,elohyim, heavenly hosts, etc clearly no men.... except in the one instance as appointed spiritual judges

 

[TomLaPalm]

Tom, I really don't need to do this for myself. It would have been for your sake. I know what the Scriptures teach. And while the Greek and Hebrew do help shed light on passages, the English translations we have are quite good so that no essential meaning is "lost in translation" so to speak. That is, unless folks want to read into the texts something that really isn't there.

Most late English translation carry bias from the earlier ones. But that is not the point here, I thought you did need guidance because you are not responding appropriately to the posts.

 

[Aaron]

Brudder bought a coconut, idn't wert' a dime . . .

 

[TomLaPalm]

There is a Father. There is a Son. We are all brothers.

Do you just make this [edited] up as you go? Tell you what. In your next reply start with the text of Scripture, and tell us how you are led to the conclusions you're asserting here by the text. Are you able to do that?

I assume the moderators are reading as well,

Psalm 82Young's Literal Translation (YLT)
82 -- A Psalm of Asaph. God hath stood in the company of God, In the midst God doth judge.

2 Till when do ye judge perversely? And the face of the wicked lift up? Selah.

3 Judge ye the weak and fatherless, The afflicted and the poor declare righteous.

4 Let the weak and needy escape, From the hand of the wicked deliver them.

5 They knew not, nor do they understand, In darkness they walk habitually, Moved are all the foundations of earth.

6 I -- I have said, `Gods ye [are], And sons of the Most High -- all of you,

7 But as man ye die, and as one of the heads ye fall,

8 Rise, O God, judge the earth, For Thou hast inheritance among all the nations!

John 10

33 The Jews answered him, saying, `For a good work we do not stone thee, but for evil speaking, and because thou, being a man, dost make thyself God.'

34 Jesus answered them, `Is it not having been written in your law: I said, ye are gods?

35 if them he did call gods unto whom the word of God came, (and the Writing is not able to be broken,)


so did Jesus misunderstand,?

He was being accused of saying He was God . He responded from scripture "ye are god" or elohyim .the heaven hosts or supernatural beings

I plainly accept the words of Jesus as TRUTH

 

[TomLaPalm]

Has every human throughout history been also a spiritual being, or rather has every human in history had a soul? Can you prove , one way or another?