Are The Unchurched Saved?

[Dave G]

This reminds me of Romans 11, where the Lord has Paul tell the Romans this:

" I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, [of] the tribe of Benjamin.
2 God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel, saying,
3 Lord, they have killed thy prophets, and digged down thine altars; and I am left alone, and they seek my life.
4 But what saith the answer of God unto him? I have reserved to myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to [the image of] Baal.
5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.
6 And if by grace, then [is it] no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if [it be] of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work." ( Romans 11:1-6 ).

Perhaps I've been too hasty and have felt that there's no one in the churches in my area that really cares about the Lord...
For that I will seek His wisdom and counsel and wait on Him to show me where to go.

The Scriptures tell me that even in the midst of things looking bad,
the Lord's purposes according to election stand...
and He has reserved to Himself a number of people who do not bow to false teachers and teachings...
They bow to Him and Him alone ( John 10:27 ).

Just because things look bad in my own area,
does not mean that there are none of His children here that I may meet someday and serve them in some small way.
Thank you for reminding me of that.


May the Lord bless you with much good in the days to come.

 

[1689Dave]

Please don't bring up that because of what we have been going through many have not been able to go to church... I am talking about those who have left church because of splits, divisions, doctrinal disagreement, unrest, problem in the church between members and by their own decision left church all together... And have not found another... They haven't left God, they left the church and there is a difference... You don't throw the baby out with the bathwater... Thoughts???... Brother Glen

I no longer go to church but my wife and I live and share our beliefs. I used to go to a church until tithing bothered my conscience. And then I'd move on to the next. I wonder if Arthur Pink didn't experience the same when I learned he too was a Church drop-out.

I believe we are in the time of Revelation 20 where Satan is loosed to attack the church and Christ's return is imminent.

 

[Scott Downey]

yes the unchurched are saved, if they meet Romans 10 requirements, there was nothing mentioned there about you must attend church to be saved.

8 But what does it say? “The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart” (that is, the word of faith which we preach): 9 that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. 11 For the Scripture says, “Whoever believes on Him will not be put to shame.” 12 For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek, for the same Lord over all is rich to all who call upon Him. 13 For “whoever calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved.”

Tell me, did you get saved and then join a church, or when you joined a church you got saved.

 

[1689Dave]

yes the unchurched are saved, if they meet Romans 10 requirements, there was nothing mentioned there about you must attend church to be saved.

8 But what does it say? “The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart” (that is, the word of faith which we preach): 9 that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. 11 For the Scripture says, “Whoever believes on Him will not be put to shame.” 12 For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek, for the same Lord over all is rich to all who call upon Him. 13 For “whoever calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved.”

Tell me, did you get saved and then join a church, or when you joined a church you got saved.

The problem is Romans 10:9 is not a chant similar to the ones witches use to control god, making him work for them. It is rather, a condition of the saved person. The one who eats, drinks, and sleeps, Jesus. People turn god into a bully who saves those who "say uncle" if you read it as a chant or formula to recite for salvation.

 

[Scott Downey]

The problem is Romans 10:9 is not a chant similar to the ones witches use to control god, making him work for them. It is rather, a condition of the saved person. The one who eats, drinks, and sleeps, Jesus. People turn god into a bully who saves those who "say uncle" if you read it as a chant or formula to recite for salvation.

it says, believe in your heart, that is not something spoken aloud, chanted.

' believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead'

yes, someone could just chant out Jesus is Lord, and not believe it in their heart.
But this is not a problem, this is what scripture says.

Who are you to know what is in another mans heart?
Salvation is a personal thing, you do not go to church and then your saved.

 

[1689Dave]

it says, believe in your heart, that is not something spoken aloud, chanted.

' believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead'

yes, someone could just chant out Jesus is Lord, and not believe it in their heart.
But this is not a problem, this is what scripture says.

Who are you to know what is in another mans heart?
Salvation is a personal thing, you do not go to church and then your saved.

Good point. Many think they can save themselves by acting like believers. They turn the fruits of salvation into the means of salvation. I believe this is where the tares come from.

 

[Scott Downey]

Good point. Many think they can save themselves by acting like believers. They turn the fruits of salvation into the means of salvation. I believe this is where the tares come from.

Tares are the bad seed planted by the devil in God's field the world.
Wheat are the good seed planted by the Son in God's field the world.

The parable of the sower is really good at explaining why some are born of God, and why some are not, from v24.
So you are either tares or wheat. Sown as seeds by the Son or the devil.
Seeds grow according to their inward design.

I always got a laugh from somewhat funny v27, the surprise of his servants.

24 Another parable put he forth unto them, saying, The kingdom of heaven is likened unto a man which sowed good seed in his field:

25 But while men slept, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat, and went his way.

26 But when the blade was sprung up, and brought forth fruit, then appeared the tares also.

27 So the servants of the householder came and said unto him, Sir, didst not thou sow good seed in thy field? from whence then hath it tares?

28 He said unto them, An enemy hath done this. The servants said unto him, Wilt thou then that we go and gather them up?

29 But he said, Nay; lest while ye gather up the tares, ye root up also the wheat with them.

30 Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.

Then the explanation, parables explained there is no doubt the meaning.

36 Then Jesus sent the multitude away, and went into the house: and his disciples came unto him, saying, Declare unto us the parable of the tares of the field.

37 He answered and said unto them, He that soweth the good seed is the Son of man;

38 The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one;

39 The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels.

40 As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world.

41 The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;

42 And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.

43 Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.

 

[Van]

I have not read past the OP, so if this is redundant, my bad.

If a person was actually born anew, whether in church or not in church, they are saved forever and cannot lose that salvation.

Not being in fellowship with other Christians limits our opportunities to serve and be served by others.

 

[1689Dave]

I have not read past the OP, so if this is redundant, my bad.

If a person was actually born anew, whether in church or not in church, they are saved forever and cannot lose that salvation.

Not being in fellowship with other Christians limits our opportunities to serve and be served by others.

I agree, but I've noticed an erosion of my spirituality in most of today's churches I've attended. I grow more on my own with my historic teachers and library.

 

[Scott Downey]

I agree, but I've noticed an erosion of my spirituality in most of today's churches I've attended. I grow more on my own with my historic teachers and library.

There is a question of fruitfulness, as in interacting with other people that Paul sometimes mentioned.
Paul was of course called as an apostle to minister to the churches, and none of us are called that exact same way today.
But we can do similar things that Paul did.
Even interacting on various Christian forums is helpful to being fruitful as many other people do read what is said (as long as it is godly words worthy of that NAME).

Romans 1:13
Now I would not have you ignorant, brethren, that oftentimes I purposed to come unto you, (but was let hitherto,) that I might have some fruit among you also, even as among other Gentiles.

Romans 15:28
When therefore I have performed this, and have sealed to them this fruit, I will come by you into Spain.

2 Corinthians 9:10
Now he that ministereth seed to the sower both minister bread for your food, and multiply your seed sown, and increase the fruits of your righteousness

Philippians 4:16-18
16 For even in Thessalonica ye sent once and again unto my necessity.

17 Not because I desire a gift: but I desire fruit that may abound to your account.

18 But I have all, and abound: I am full, having received of Epaphroditus the things which were sent from you, an odour of a sweet smell, a sacrifice acceptable, wellpleasing to God.

Colossians 1:10
That ye might walk worthy of the Lord unto all pleasing, being fruitful in every good work, and increasing in the knowledge of God;

 

[1689Dave]

There is a question of fruitfulness, as in interacting with other people that Paul sometimes mentioned.
Paul was of course called as an apostle to minister to the churches, and none of us are called that exact same way today.
But we can do similar things that Paul did.
Even interacting on various Christian forums is helpful to being fruitful as many other people do read what is said (as long as it is godly words worthy of that NAME).

Romans 1:13
Now I would not have you ignorant, brethren, that oftentimes I purposed to come unto you, (but was let hitherto,) that I might have some fruit among you also, even as among other Gentiles.

Romans 15:28
When therefore I have performed this, and have sealed to them this fruit, I will come by you into Spain.

2 Corinthians 9:10
Now he that ministereth seed to the sower both minister bread for your food, and multiply your seed sown, and increase the fruits of your righteousness

Philippians 4:16-18
16 For even in Thessalonica ye sent once and again unto my necessity.

17 Not because I desire a gift: but I desire fruit that may abound to your account.

18 But I have all, and abound: I am full, having received of Epaphroditus the things which were sent from you, an odour of a sweet smell, a sacrifice acceptable, wellpleasing to God.

Colossians 1:10
That ye might walk worthy of the Lord unto all pleasing, being fruitful in every good work, and increasing in the knowledge of God;

I wonder how Paul would do if he were to take part in most of the "Christian Forums" today? Even Jesus, for that matter?

 

[Scott Downey]

I wonder how Paul would do if he were to take part in most of the "Christian Forums" today? Even Jesus, for that matter?

Jesus had His inner circle of disciples and followers, and He explained to them the mysteries of the kingdom of God, but to those outside, He spoke to them only in parables.
Jesus would not be on any forum, anything He might have said would have been spoken as a parable.

Matthew 13
34 All these things Jesus spoke to the multitude in parables; and without a parable He did not speak to them,
35 that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophet, saying:

“I will open My mouth in parables;
I will utter things kept secret from the foundation of the world.”


Mark 4:10-12
10 And when he was alone, they that were about him with the twelve asked of him the parable.

11 And he said unto them, Unto you it is given to know the mystery of the kingdom of God: but unto them that are without, all these things are done in parables:

12 That seeing they may see, and not perceive; and hearing they may hear, and not understand; lest at any time they should be converted, and their sins should be forgiven them.

Luke 8:10
And He said, “To you it has been given to know the mysteries of the kingdom of God, but to the rest it is given in parables, that ‘Seeing they may not see, And hearing they may not understand.’


Can't really know about Paul, but he did say this

For though I am free from all men, I have made myself a slave to all, that I might win the more. 20 And to the Jews I became as a Jew, that I might win Jews; to those who are under the Law, as under the Law, though not being myself under the Law, that I might win those who are under the Law; 21 to those who are without law, as without law, though not being without the law of God but under the law of Christ, that I might win those who are without law. 22 To the weak I became weak, that I might win the weak; I have become all things to all men, that I may by all means save some. 23 And I do all things for the sake of the gospel, that I may become a fellow partaker of it.
Becoming All Things to All Men to Save Some | Desiring God

 

[1689Dave]

Jesus had His inner circle of disciples and followers, and He explained to them the mysteries of the kingdom of God, but to those outside, He spoke to them only in parables.
Jesus would not be on any forum, anything He might have said would have been spoken as a parable.

Matthew 13
34 All these things Jesus spoke to the multitude in parables; and without a parable He did not speak to them,
35 that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophet, saying:

“I will open My mouth in parables;
I will utter things kept secret from the foundation of the world.”


Mark 4:10-12
10 And when he was alone, they that were about him with the twelve asked of him the parable.

11 And he said unto them, Unto you it is given to know the mystery of the kingdom of God: but unto them that are without, all these things are done in parables:

12 That seeing they may see, and not perceive; and hearing they may hear, and not understand; lest at any time they should be converted, and their sins should be forgiven them.

Luke 8:10
And He said, “To you it has been given to know the mysteries of the kingdom of God, but to the rest it is given in parables, that ‘Seeing they may not see, And hearing they may not understand.’


Can't really know about Paul, but he did say this

For though I am free from all men, I have made myself a slave to all, that I might win the more. 20 And to the Jews I became as a Jew, that I might win Jews; to those who are under the Law, as under the Law, though not being myself under the Law, that I might win those who are under the Law; 21 to those who are without law, as without law, though not being without the law of God but under the law of Christ, that I might win those who are without law. 22 To the weak I became weak, that I might win the weak; I have become all things to all men, that I may by all means save some. 23 And I do all things for the sake of the gospel, that I may become a fellow partaker of it.
Becoming All Things to All Men to Save Some | Desiring God

I like your take on this.

 

[kyredneck]

The problem is Romans 10:9 is not a chant similar to the ones witches use to control god, making him work for them. It is rather, a condition of the saved person. The one who eats, drinks, and sleeps, Jesus. People turn god into a bully who saves those who "say uncle" if you read it as a chant or formula to recite for salvation.

Exactly!

"if thou shalt confess with thy mouth Jesus as Lord, and shalt believe in thy heart that God raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved", is a way of life, and not a 'one off' incantation that excites the Holy Spirit to 'save' us and then that's it, salvation is an ongoing day by day experience.

Good post!

 

[PeacefulLove]

Well, if not going to church means you're not saved then...I'm guilty. I moved about 6 months ago and between the shutdown and my own introvert/hermit qualities, I have yet to even really visit any churches. I spend time in the Word here at home, and have made friends through a Christian ministry I'm involved in. I pray with these friends and have fellowship on a weekly basis with them. Beyond that...I do a lot of staying home. So...if being "unchurched" means that you're not saved, well...yup...guilty as charged.

 

[SGO]

I am fairly anti-social at heart, but do not wish it to be so.

However, once I got very upset at the pastor of a church my wife and I were attending.

I refused to go and stayed out of churches for four years while my wife continued attending.

She told me, "I want to stay here until at least after my mother passes."

So after that happened we went looking for a church and have found one which was mutually acceptable.

I think not resolving my upset-ness was a big mistake.

We need that people togetherness to worship our Lord.