Again, this is a strange view. I am asking if there are sources (other than you) who support this shift in thinking. It seems that you are twisting Scripture (OT and NT) to fit your view.
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Are there any inspired translations today?
- Thread starter Yeshua1
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2 Timothy 3:16-17 does not state or assert that Bible translations made after the completion of the process of the giving of the New Testament are inspired. There is no mention of translation in 2 Timothy 3:16-17.
You seem to be advocating a position that you do not demonstrate to be taught in those verses.
No. You have completely misunderstood my point (sorry if I was not clear).
I am saying that the Apostles (and Jesus) considered the Old Testament to be inspired Scripture even though they did not have the original autographs.
SavedByGrace
Well-Known Member
the main point is that the entire 66 Books of the Holy Bible are the Word of God, Inspired by the Holy Spirit
Certainly they had excellent copies of the originals
SavedByGrace
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and just how do you know this? this is nothing more then speculation! I have ZERO doubt that the Lord Jesus and the Apostles and the Writers of the 27 NT Books, had and used the Original Autographs, in the Hebrew, and not any translation like the LXX. There is ZERO evidence to say that they did not!
As do we.
The same question can be asked of you. You are assuming the original autographs existed in the first century.
I see no evidence that God miraculously made the original documents last centuries. Instead, it seems reasonable that Scribes made copies of the originals, which would have been lost to antiquity. We do know this because in various synagogues Jews read from Scripture (they did not congregate in the Temple library to read Scripture). Men copied Scripture. And we have to acknowledge the possibility of oral transmission for a portion of the OT text.
But like I said, the issue between you and me is what constitutes the Word of God and exactly what is inspired. Even if we had the original autographs today our arguments would be the same.
SavedByGrace
Well-Known Member
Jon, so you are willing to argue from silence, that the original autographs were not used by Jesus or the Apostles, or the Writers of the NT. You say that I cannot prove that they did. Can you imagine that the Lord would use "uninspired copies" of the OT? Your reasoning is moot!
No, I am not arguing from silence. I am arguing from what I believe to be the proper definition of "God breathed". Jesus told the Apostles that the Spirit would bring to mind all of those things - not that the Holy Spirit would dictate the words to write. So my argument (regarding inspiration) is not from silence. That is where my argument is, not with the "original autographs". The original autographs have no bearing on my argument.
But you, friend, are arguing from silence. It has been accepted (going to textual criticism) that even in the first century there were transcription errors in the existing Scriptures (this is often taken as a proof of accuracy - that the Scribes were aware of these transcription errors and did not attempt to correct them but faithfully copied what they read). Nowhere is Jesus said to have read from the autographs. Also, we know that there were copies of Scripture in scrolls (in the synagogues). Even if the original autographs did exist it is a bit strange to assume that those were the texts from which Christ read. Your argument is on this point is one from silence.
SavedByGrace
Well-Known Member
exactly who said this? I have been studying textual criticism for over 35 years, and have never seen this before. Nor have I found any such evidence. Further, on the "dictation" issue, did you know that in 2 Peter 1:21, the Greek verb φέρω, is is a present passive participle, "carried" by the Holy Spirit? John Trapp has commented on this correctly, "As they were moved] φερομενοι. Forcibly moved, acted, carried out of themselves to say and do what God would have them." This is the force of the passive here.
I am exactly sure that we are saying the same thing. By "they" I am talking about the Scribes who were copying Scripture. Are you saying that God "moved" or "carried" the Scribes in their work in addition to inspiring the writers to initially record God's Word? If so, then how can you reconcile textual differences (when did God stop this "second" form of inspiration?
Yes, I am willing to "argue from silence" that Jesus did not have in HIs hands the Ten Commandments when He quoted from the stone tablets. I am also willing to "argue from silence" that Paul was not in possession of the original when he quoted Scripture. I simply do not believe that the original autographs existed during the first century. It does not make sense to me that they would.
That said, my argument itself has nothing to do with the existence of the original autographs. I believe I have pointed this out already. My argument would be the same if we knew Martin Luther had in his possession the original autographs when he translated Scripture into German. My argument would be the same if the original autographs we in an oak desk in a corner office at the SBC library in Nashville. My argument is that what is inspired is not the exact words but the Word that those words communicate and therefore inspiration transcends translation.
My views are exactly the same as vast majority have held regarding this issue!
Originals of the OT/NT were inspired by the Holy Spirit, and in the Hebrew and Greek texts available today to use for translations, those bibles in English afre infallible!
That refers ONLY to the originals that were inspired by the Holy Spirit!
Which enables us to have infallible, but not inspired translations today!
Inspiration goes to only the Originals, and that is the viewpoint of a vast majority of Christians until KJVO arose!
The Holy Spirit used each writer own unique vocabulary and sytle to pen down what he wanted, and made sure that each and every work point down was correct and accurate!
The Hebrew scribes were meticulous while they copied down the OT, as if they noticed just one error/mistake, they trashed the book and started again!
Inspiration only was to those who first recorded down the books of the Canon!
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