Are there Apostles today?

[DHK]

Tam,
I am a bit confused by your above post. I think (and hope) that you and Bmerr were saying the same thing in different words. When he said "continue to search for the truth," I believe his underlying assumption would be "through the Word of God." You also said, "I don't take the Word of God lightly," and "Jesus has said nothing directly to anyone lately." Thus I take it that you also mean that "in searching" the Word of God is always your foundation and basis.
DHK

 

[bmerr]

DHK,

bmerr here. Your assessment of my statement was correct.

In Christ,

bmerr

 

[tamborine lady]

DHK said.

Tam,
I am a bit confused by your above post. I think (and hope) that you and Bmerr were saying the same thing in different words. When he said "continue to search for the truth," I believe his underlying assumption would be "through the Word of God." You also said, "I don't take the Word of God lightly," and "Jesus has said nothing directly to anyone lately." Thus I take it that you also mean that "in searching" the Word of God is always your foundation and basis.
DHK
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My actual statement was this (to Bmerr) Dear Bmerr,

I'm sorry, but when I read your post it just really struck me funny.

The Bible says that "my sheep know my voice and another they will not follow". So when you said:Jesus has said nothing directly to anyone lately., I coudn't help but wonder how we could know his voice if nobody hears from him. If he didn't mean what he said then what do you think he meant?

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I wish to clarify that statement.

I believe that Jesus speakes to us today. In His word, the bible.

He also speaks to us through the Holy Ghost. Not out loud, but with impressions, and His thoughts.

Mark 12-36 For David himself said by the Holy Ghost, The LORD said to my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, till I make thine enemies thy footstool.

Luke 2-26 And it was revealed unto him by the Holy Ghost, that he should not see death, before he had seen the Lord's Christ.

Acts 13-2 As they ministered to the Lord, and fasted, the Holy Ghost said, Separate me Barnabas and Saul for the work whereunto I have called them.

2 As they ministered to the Lord, and fasted, the Holy Ghost said, Separate me Barnabas and Saul for the work whereunto I have called them.

The Holy Ghost and the Comforter and Jesus, speak with the same voice.

This is what I mean about hearing the voice of the Lord, by reading the word and by the Holy Ghost speaking.

I of course beleive that all the Gifts of the Spirit are still in effect today.

So, that's how I hear God.

I know that may sound foreign to some of you, but that's what Jesus meant when He said" my sheep hear my voice".

John 10-27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:

The words posted earlier:Jesus has said nothing directly to anyone lately.was what Bmerr said. Those were not my words.

Working for Jesus,

Tam

[ December 02, 2005, 09:56 AM: Message edited by: tamborine lady ]

 

[DHK]

I think, Tam, we may not be as far as part as you think.
However, what do you think of the ikes of Kenneth Hagin, who in his booklet, "How to Write your Own Ticket to God," tells of a vision of Jesus, where he says to him:
"Dear Lord, I have two sermons I preach concerning the woman who touched your clothes and was healed when you were on earth. I received both sermons by inspiration."

God speaks (supposedly) to Hagin, on the same level as he did to the Apostles. His words are just as inspired as the Apostles (he claims). He doesn't believe we have a closed canon. Revelation is still being given--especially to him.
Personally I believe that is heresy. The Bible is God's Word, inspired by the Holy Spirit. It is what we call a closed canon, and anyone who adds to it brings the curse of God upon him. To add or take away anything from the Word of God is a serious thing.

However, regarding the ministry of the Holy Spirit--He still is very active today.

I am on a mission field. It was the Holy Spirit that both led me and sent me here.
Contrary to some false teacher (like a J.W. I know that the Holy Spirit "bears witness" with my spirit that I am a child of God. He testifies; bears witness...
He speaks to me (in the same manner that you described--not audibly but...)
In other words if there is a man sitting on a bench in a mall, the Holy Spirit might impress upon my mind, (or tell me) go witness to that man.
And if I don't, I may "grieve" the Holy Spirit.
Almost daily do I look to Him for his guidance and leading.
I pray for his filling before preaching or witnessing.
I pray that there would be conviction of sin because of the preaching of His Word, as it is He who will use the Word to convict of sin.
1Cor.2:11,12 teaches that he illuminates our mind, gives us understanding as we read His Word. Thus I look to Him for understanding in the reading and study of His Word.

However, I do not receive "special revelation." God has stopped giving that out. The Bible is complete. No one today can claim that they are receiving "words of knowledge" that are on par with the inspired Word of God.

Now how much differently do you believe?
DHK

 

[tamborine lady]

I do believe that God can still speak to us as he did to Paul in the following scripture.

Acts 13-2 As they ministered to the Lord, and fasted, the Holy Ghost said, Separate me Barnabas and Saul for the work whereunto I have called them.

Let me give an example.

I decide that I want to go see a particular person. Then the Holy Ghost says" no, I do not want you to visit them, it is not time yet"

That is not scripture, but it is from God. I know because it has happened to me.

Do we still believe the same??

Selah,

Tam

 

[Rev. Lowery]

Someone may have said this allready I know I have.

The word of God, The Bible, is all there is the is no more.

If there are apostles now, then I guess we need more Bible.

And if we need more than what we have its contradicting itself which means its a lie which makes God a lier which is not true.

Even the dictionary supports in its definition the lacking of apostles today.

What are we trying to say here that there is people among us today hand picked by Christ to spread his Gospel thats unbiblical he commanded us all to go a preach the Gospel.

Rev. Jerry D. Lowery

 

[Rev. Lowery]

Originally posted by tamborine lady:


That is not scripture, but it is from God. I know because it has happened to me.

Do we still believe the same??

Selah,

Tam

Oh sister you error here. Gods word sister, The Bible, is it from God if its not scripture.
Human experiance doesnt mean that its of God is our experiance Final authority on what is God and What is not.....If so the Man is God....
Oh Lord what have we come to that we believe not in your word but in ourselves, our own experiance. How ungodly, how wrong the human flesh is, that it thinks it is good enough to know what God is.

Rev. Jerry D. Lowery

 

[bmerr]

Tam, DHK,

bmerr here. 2 Tim 3:16, 17 (as you surely know) reads,

"All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works."

If there is a good work for us to do, the Bible is sufficient to throughly furnish us to do it. To hold that the Holy Spirit "...also speaks to us through the Holy Ghost. Not out loud, but with impressions, and His thoughts" is to say that "all scripture" is insufficient.

Additionally, God never led anyone in the Bible with "impressions", or "feelings". He always spoke to those He dealt with.

- Acts 8:26 - "And the angel of the Lord spake unto Phillip, saying..."

- Acts 10:13 - "And there came a voice to him, Rise, Peter; kill and eat..."

- Acts 10:15 - "And the voice spake unto him a second time..."

- Acts 10:19 - "...the Spirit said unto him, Behold..."

- Acts 11:12 - "And the Spirit bade me go with them..."

- Acts 12:8 - "And the angel said unto him..."

- Acts 13:2 - "...The Holy Ghost said, Separate me Barnabas and Saul..."

- Acts 20:23 - "...the Holy Ghost witnesseth in every city saying that bonds and afflictions abide me."

You get the idea, right?

During the infancy of the church, there was a need for God to speak directly to some men, and He did so. However, we now have His complete revelation to man in the pages of the Bible. It is all man needs in order to understand what God requires of him in order to be saved. It is sufficient.

The danger inherent in the idea that God leads people today with "feelings" and "impressions" is that whenever someone "feels" a strong desire to do something, they tend to attribute it to God "leading" them to do it.

Many times what such a person desires to do is a good thing, something the Bible says he ought to do. Others, however, have killed their babies, and done other horrific acts, because they felt that "God told me to ________."

If we know from the Bible that we are to tell others of Christ, or help the poor, or give aid to widows, then What need is there for God to tell us again with a "feeling", or an "impression" or something like that? We already have God's word on it. Isn't that enough?

In Christ,

bmerr

 

[tamborine lady]

Rev Lowrey said:Oh sister you error here. Gods word sister, The Bible, is it from God if its not scripture.
Human experiance doesnt mean that its of God is our experiance Final authority on what is God and What is not.....If so the Man is God....
Oh Lord what have we come to that we believe not in your word but in ourselves, our own experiance. How ungodly, how wrong the human flesh is, that it thinks it is good enough to know what God is.

Rev. Jerry D. Lowery

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Tam says: Oh Brother Lowrey, you don't even get it!

2 Tim 3-16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
17 That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.

Notice that I have highlighted "scripture". The reason for that is that scripture is given by inspiration of God. And what we have is all there is.

However, the sctipture is what I check my thoughts, revelations etc with. It must line up with the word.

Show me in the bible where it says God stopped talking to man!!

God talks to me and I talk to Him and that's the way it is.

No need to debate me anymore, because my mind is made up. I will follow Jesus instead of man!!

I will not be moved.

Good day and may the good Lord take a likeing to ya.!

Tamborone Lady

 

[tamborine lady]

I asked this question yesterday and I haven't seen an answer yet!!

Show me in the bible where it says God stopped talking to man!!

Does anybody have a scripture to answer that question?

Tam

 

[John of Japan]

Boy, has this gotten off topic. Sorry, but I lost interest pages ago. Sayonara.

 

[Link]

Originally posted by Rev. Lowery:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by tamborine lady:


That is not scripture, but it is from God. I know because it has happened to me.

Do we still believe the same??

Selah,

Tam

Oh sister you error here. Gods word sister, The Bible, is it from God if its not scripture.
Human experiance doesnt mean that its of God is our experiance Final authority on what is God and What is not.....If so the Man is God....
Oh Lord what have we come to that we believe not in your word but in ourselves, our own experiance. How ungodly, how wrong the human flesh is, that it thinks it is good enough to know what God is.

Rev. Jerry D. Lowery </font>[/QUOTE]If someone experiences something, the fact that it is an experience does not mean that it is not from God.

Romans 5 has the following to say about experience:
3. And not only so, but we glory in tribulations also: knowing that tribulation worketh patience;
4. And patience, experience; and experience, hope:

Experience can be a good thing. Someone can experience something from God without knowing where to find that thing in the Bible. It does not mean that the experience is necessarily unbiblical or not from God.

 

[music4Him]

God talked to Paul while he was still a sinner and only later became an Apostle (bugt not of the "12" but and apostle of the Gentiles. God talked to men in the OT starting with Adam and even on to Paul. It would not be strange for God to speak to us today. God never changes.... we do. So why then would he quit talking to us?

 

[tamborine lady]

Originally posted by tamborine lady:

I asked this question yesterday and I haven't seen an answer yet!!

Show me in the bible where it says God stopped talking to man!!

Does anybody have a scripture to answer that question?

Tam

Still waiting!!

And BTW, we are not off topic, bacause God talked to the Apostles.

Show me where God stopped talking to men and women!!

God Bless,

Tam

 

[Rev. Lowery]

HAHA oh I see what tam is saying lol

Yes it makes sense now but I have a question for your question.

Just because the holy spirit talks to us does that make us apostle's no.

An apostle is someone hand picked by Jesus to spread his word.

Rev. Jerry D. Lowery

 

[music4Him]

Thats right Rev Lowery it don't make us apostles but we are still His sheep and can still hear His voice.

 

[tamborine lady]

Originally posted by Rev. Lowery:
HAHA oh I see what tam is saying lol

Yes it makes sense now but I have a question for your question.

Just because the holy spirit talks to us does that make us apostle's no.

An apostle is someone hand picked by Jesus to spread his word.

Rev. Jerry D. Lowery

We have establised that there are a lot more than 12 Apostles. Jesus picked the main 12 while He was here on earth.

But he picked the rest too.

And no, it doesn't mean we are apostles, but God talks to all His sheep!

But all his sheep don't listen to Him!!

Selah,

Tam

 

[fatbacker]

I have read alot fo the comments made here but I tend to believe that the bible never says that the Apostles will just fade away and cease to exists. There is no reason to believe that there should not be Apostles but the underlying issue should be can we accept the term in our churches today? I myself would look at someone like they are cracked if they called themselves an Apostle. I am so tuned into the ones that are in the bible that anything outside of that just seems absurd.

EPH: 4:11 the Apostle Paul says some are to be Apostles, teachers, evangelists...etc.

I would say the expectations of an Apostle today would have to meet the same standards of healings, miracles and ability to testify about Jesus in the same powerful way as they did in the books of the new testament.

I will say again that no where in the bible does it say there will no longer be Apostles after a certain time the same as it never says speaking in tounges will cease to be used.

 

[Rev. Lowery]

I agree tam

Where did we establish more than 12 apostles ?

I may have missed a post or 2?

Rev. Jerry D. Lowery

 

[tamborine lady]

Here you go Bro Lowery:

This is the last post on page 2. by John of Japan:

quote:

Originally posted by FWBPastor:
Rev. 21:14 states that were only 12 apostles, as each of the 12 foundations of New Jerusalem are named for these 12 men.

Bill

Well yes, but no. What about Paul and Barnabas (Acts 14:14), Andronicus and Junia (Rom. 16:7), James the Lord's brother (Gal. 1:19), Epaphroditus (the original of Phil. 2:25 is apostolos), the messengers (apostles) of the church at Corinth (2 Cor. 8:23), etc.? In fact, Jesus Christ Himself was an Apostle (Heb. 3:1).

Guess what, folks. Many of us missionaries have a dirty little secret. We equate being a missionary with the Bible word apostle, simply because if the apostles weren't missionaries then there are no missionaries in the Bible!
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Then there's this one in the middle of page 3 by DHK listing 19, and explaining why there coud be more.:


DHK says:
can't remember the exact number, close to 19 apostles just counting those who are specifically called apostles such as those mentioned above--Paul and Barnabas, apostles of Christ.

There are two meanings of the word "Apostle" used in the Bible. Often the word "Apostle" is used in the sense of "The Twelve." The context of the passage bears this out.
But there is a more general meaning of the word apostle, which has already been pointed out--one sent with a message. That is what the word actually means. In that sense every Christian ought to be a missionary. We are sent with the message of the gospel of Christ to the unsaved around us.

When the Greek word "apostolos" was translated into the Latin, the Latin word for apostle is "mittere" from which we get our English word "missionary." Thus, John is right. The word missionary has its roots in the same derivation that "apostle" does. It means the same--one sent with a message.
DHK
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the bottom few posts on page 3 is interesting.

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Then page 4 is full of information. Here's the link:
http://www.baptistboard.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi/topic/28/3441/4.html?

Just keep reading page after page. But of course you have to weed out the "dross" from the gold.

Happy reading,

Tam