Are there even biblical arminians posting On The baptist Board?

[Winman]

Winman,
This is what the text of scripture says...your vain thoughts will not change it. You deny the very words of scripture ...right here....because you have no answer, no response that can stand up to this clear truth.



They sin and died in Adam. We do not have to wait to see the error. Just read what you say and read this text over again.

Augustine, or pagans did not write it....it was given by the Holy Spirit to Paul.

Blah, blah, blah, I have seen this bogus explanation many times. You can always find "scholars" who can make scripture support any point of view, the JWs have "scholars" who can explain away hell.

The whole idea of sin being inherited is ridiculous. No one can sin for another, it is impossible.

If sin is inherited, then why not righteousness? If a man and his wife are born again, having the new nature, then how is it that their children are born with a sin nature? Ridiculous, you cannot possibly explain that. But if our old nature died when we believed, any children should be born with the new nature.

Explain that if you are so knowledgeable. How is it that children born to born again parents are born with a sin nature?

This is going to be good, I can't wait to see your answer. :laugh:

 

[Amy.G]

If sin is inherited, then why not righteousness? If a man and his wife are born again, having the new nature, then how is it that their children are born with a sin nature? Ridiculous, you cannot possibly explain that. But if our old nature died when we believed, any children should be born with the new nature.

Explain that if you are so knowledgeable. How is it that children born to born again parents are born with a sin nature?

This is going to be good, I can't wait to see your answer. :laugh:

Because that which is born of flesh is flesh and that which is born of Spirit is spirit.
Only the Spirit can birth righteousness. Human reproduction cannot accomplish what only God's Spirit can do.

 

[Winman]

Because that which is born of flesh is flesh and that which is born of Spirit is spirit.
Only the Spirit can birth righteousness. Human reproduction cannot accomplish what only God's Spirit can do.

So you think sin is physical? We inherit sin like our eye color or other physical features?

Then how did Jesus escape having a sin nature, he was the "seed of the woman" was he not?

Psa 51:5 Behold, I was shapen in iniquity; and in sin did my mother conceive me.

If this verse teaches that the sin nature is physically inherited, does it teach it is inherited from our father? NO, it does not mention David's father, only his mother. Wow, the Holy Spirit must have made a mistake.

Job 15:14 What is man, that he should be clean? and he which is born of a woman, that he should be righteous?

Job 25:4 How then can man be justified with God? or how can he be clean that is born of a woman?

Was Jesus born of a woman? Then how could he be clean or righteous if these verses are teaching sin is inherited? Do they mention the father? NO.

Men are born upright, just as Adam and Eve were made upright. All men when they are old enough to understand right from wrong willingly choose to sin and spiritually die, just like Adam and Eve. And all men must be born again by trusting in Jesus, just as Adam and Eve did.

 

[Iconoclast]

Blah, blah, blah, I have seen this bogus explanation many times. You can always find "scholars" who can make scripture support any point of view, the JWs have "scholars" who can explain away hell.

The whole idea of sin being inherited is ridiculous. No one can sin for another, it is impossible.

If sin is inherited, then why not righteousness? If a man and his wife are born again, having the new nature, then how is it that their children are born with a sin nature? Ridiculous, you cannot possibly explain that. But if our old nature died when we believed, any children should be born with the new nature.

Explain that if you are so knowledgeable. How is it that children born to born again parents are born with a sin nature?

This is going to be good, I can't wait to see your answer. :laugh:

Winman,

blah blah blah...is not a response that is acceptable to Divine truth.

All mankind are sinners....so when they have children they also are sinners.

Paul in Romans 7 makes this clear to any who understand the text:

21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.

22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:

23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.

24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?

25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

 

[Iconoclast]

Because that which is born of flesh is flesh and that which is born of Spirit is spirit.
Only the Spirit can birth righteousness. Human reproduction cannot accomplish what only God's Spirit can do.

Nice post AmyG....you have clear vision on the issue:wavey::thumbs::applause::wavey:

 

[Winman]

Winman,

blah blah blah...is not a response that is acceptable to Divine truth.

All mankind are sinners....so when they have children they also are sinners.

Paul in Romans 7 makes this clear to any who understand the text:
[/B]

You did not answer my question. How is it when a man and his wife are born again Christians with the new nature their children are born with a sin nature?

Answer this question please.

 

[Iconoclast]

You did not answer my question. How is it when a man and his wife are born again Christians with the new nature their children are born with a sin nature?

Answer this question please.

I have answered the question...but like the text in romans 3;23 that you make fun of and avoid....you are unable to understand it.

Our ouward man is perishing...we do not have a body that is incapable of sin, even as born from above believers.

While we are sinlessly perfect In Christ....we are still in a body that is able to sin...until glorification.No where are we removed from the curse of sin in our members here...That is why Paul commands us to mortify sin...in Romans 8...it is a command for all christians;

6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.

7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

10 And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.

11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.

12 Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh.

13 For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.

14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, [/QUOTE]

We would not be commanded to mortify sin...if we were sinless....


Now you respond to romans 3:23...what it actually says in the greek text...not from augustine or the pagans:

Quote:
8 The use of the aor. in both Romans passages, in their given context, point to an event, i.e., mankind did not simply inherit a sinful nature or tendency from Adam—“all have sinned,” thus referring to personal experience and activity,


but “all sinned” in an event, a point in time (Rom. 3:23, pa,ntej ga.r h[marton kai. u`sterou/ntai th/j do,xhj tou/ qeou/. “For all sinned and are subsequently constantly coming short…”




Rom. 5:12, …diV e`no.j avnqrw,pou h` a`marti,a eivj to.n ko,smon…evfV w-| pa,ntej h[marton. “by one man sin entered into the world…for all sinned.”). Every human being is a sinner by imputation, nature and personal activity.

Winman...I know you cannot respond without looking quite foolish but stick to the verse please:thumbs::thumbs:

 

[Winman]

I have answered the question...but like the text in romans 3;23 that you make fun of and avoid....you are unable to understand it.

Our ouward man is perishing...we do not have a body that is incapable of sin, even as born from above believers.

While we are sinlessly perfect In Christ....we are still in a body that is able to sin...until glorification.No where are we removed from the curse of sin in our members here...That is why Paul commands us to mortify sin...in Romans 8...it is a command for all christians;

6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.

7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

10 And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.

11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.

12 Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh.

13 For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.

14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, [/QUOTE]

We would not be commanded to mortify sin...if we were sinless....


Now you respond to romans 3:23...what it actually says in the greek text...not from augustine or the pagans:



Winman...I know you cannot respond without looking quite foolish but stick to the verse please:thumbs::thumbs:

We will see who is foolish at the judgment.

I disagree with your interpretation of Romans 3:23. God himself clearly said that the son shall not bear the iniquity of his father. You are teaching false doctrine that contradicts the word of God. Not only does it contradict the word of God, but it offends every man's conscience, no man believes it just to impute the sin of one man to another.

You just keep convincing yourself of a falsehood, it will all be revealed.

 

[jbh28]

Because that which is born of flesh is flesh and that which is born of Spirit is spirit.
Only the Spirit can birth righteousness. Human reproduction cannot accomplish what only God's Spirit can do.

:thumbs::thumbs::thumbs::thumbs:

 

[Iconoclast]

Winman]

I have answered the question...but like the text in romans 3;23 that you make fun of and avoid....you are unable to understand it.

Our ouward man is perishing...we do not have a body that is incapable of sin, even as born from above believers.

While we are sinlessly perfect In Christ....we are still in a body that is able to sin...until glorification.No where are we removed from the curse of sin in our members here...That is why Paul commands us to mortify sin...in Romans 8...it is a command for all christians;

We will see who is foolish at the judgment

.

Well I give you credit for your open denial of the text.You own your falsehood but I would urge you to continue to search this out on your own.

One of us is completely wrong.....I am confident of my post to you on this matter. I think you should re-read your own posts and see that you oppose all confessional churches throughout history. You offer novelties and certain error.
I thank you for your honesty but I think we believe different gospels.:thumbs::wavey:

I disagree with your interpretation of Romans 3:23. God himself clearly said that the son shall not bear the iniquity of his father. You are teaching false doctrine that contradicts the word of God. Not only does it contradict the word of God, but it offends every man's conscience, no man believes it just to impute the sin of one man to another.

You just keep convincing yourself of a falsehood, it will all be revealed

.

Winman...it is not My interpretation as you try to avoid yet again...it is the actual grammar of the text itself that you are rejecting.I would be concerned when someone denies the text itself...

 

[Amy.G]

You did not answer my question. How is it when a man and his wife are born again Christians with the new nature their children are born with a sin nature?

Answer this question please.

Because spiritual birth has zero to do with the physical birth. Jesus explained this to Nicodemus and he didn't understand it either.

 

[Iconoclast]

Because spiritual birth has zero to do with the physical birth. Jesus explained this to Nicodemus and he didn't understand it either.

:wavey::thumbs::applause:

 

[Winman]

Because spiritual birth has zero to do with the physical birth. Jesus explained this to Nicodemus and he didn't understand it either.

And what none of you Calvinists understand is the word AGAIN.

Jesus said we must be born AGAIN. The word regeneration means to be made alive AGAIN.

The scriptures say death passed upon all men for that all have sinned. You must first be alive to die.

A man must be born alive the first time to be born alive AGAIN.

Jesus said the prodigal son was alive AGAIN.

No one can be born dead. To be born, you must be alive for at least a short period of time. We speak of a miscarriage , we say that a child is born dead, but that child was alive for a period of time before it died. You must be alive to die.

You Calvinists teach the false and illogical idea that we were always dead. That is impossible and illogical, nothing can be dead that was not first alive. A stone cannot be said to be dead, because it was never alive.

No man can be dead in sin that was not first alive.

Rom 7:9 For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.

Paul never taught he was born dead, he taught he was alive once, but when the commandment came, sin revived and he died. You must be alive to die. And you must be born alive once to be born alive AGAIN.

All you Calvinists teach is error.

 

[psalms109:31]

Our first birth

Psalm 51:5
Surely I was sinful at birth, sinful from the time my mother conceived me.

Our born again by His word by the Holy Spirit our new Mother.

Psalm 139
13 For you created my inmost being;
you knit me together in my mother’s womb.
14 I praise you because I am fearfully and wonderfully made;
your works are wonderful,
I know that full well.
15 My frame was not hidden from you
when I was made in the secret place,
when I was woven together in the depths of the earth.
16 Your eyes saw my unformed body;
all the days ordained for me were written in your book
before one of them came to be.
17 How precious to me are your thoughts,[Or How amazing are your thoughts concerning me] God!
How vast is the sum of them!
18 Were I to count them,
they would outnumber the grains of sand—
when I awake, I am still with you.

The question is was we chosen by our first birth before the foundation of the world or by our new birth, our new creation us being born again through enduring word in Him chosen before the foundation of the world? I do believe my first birth who i was was headed for destruction and Jesus saved me from this body of death and He made me a new creation by His enduring word in my inner most parts hidden while the outside of me is decaying and dying still.

Psalm 119:133
Direct my footsteps according to your word; let no sin rule over me.

Romans 8

8 Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus, 2 because through Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit who gives life has set you[The Greek is singular; some manuscripts me] free from the law of sin and death. 3 For what the law was powerless to do because it was weakened by the flesh,[In contexts like this, the Greek word for flesh (sarx) refers to the sinful state of human beings, often presented as a power in opposition to the Spirit; also in verses 4-13.] God did by sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh to be a sin offering.[Or flesh, for sin] And so he condemned sin in the flesh, 4 in order that the righteous requirement of the law might be fully met in us, who do not live according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.

 

[jbh28]

And what none of you Calvinists understand is the word AGAIN.

Jesus said we must be born AGAIN. The word regeneration means to be made alive AGAIN.

The scriptures say death passed upon all men for that all have sinned. You must first be alive to die.

A man must be born alive the first time to be born alive AGAIN.

Jesus said the prodigal son was alive AGAIN.

No one can be born dead. To be born, you must be alive for at least a short period of time. We speak of a miscarriage , we say that a child is born dead, but that child was alive for a period of time before it died. You must be alive to die.

You Calvinists teach the false and illogical idea that we were always dead. That is impossible and illogical, nothing can be dead that was not first alive. A stone cannot be said to be dead, because it was never alive.

No man can be dead in sin that was not first alive.

Rom 7:9 For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.

Paul never taught he was born dead, he taught he was alive once, but when the commandment came, sin revived and he died. You must be alive to die. And you must be born alive once to be born alive AGAIN.

All you Calvinists teach is error.

Born again(or from above) was in contrast to physical birth.

Birth 1 - physical
birth 2 - spiritual.

 

[convicted1]

Men are conceived in sin Willis....because their parents are sinners.That is the scriptural teaching. Physically alive, spiritually dead.

No, it is not scriptural, but taught in the Reformed circles.


You have to distinguish between the "inner man" and the "outer man", when you are talking about conception. What is conceived in conception? The fertilization of an egg by a sperm is what starts the formation of the human body. Now, the soul isn't conceived, because if we conceived the soul as well as the physical, then we have the ability to create life. Once the egg is fertilized, it start's it growth process, with God shaping that body the way it pleases Him. Remember, He told Jeremiah that He knew him before He formed him in his mother's womb. Once the egg starts growing, God places the soul(inner man) in that body. So, if the soul is dead at conception, then it came from God in a dead state of sin, therefore, making God the Author of sin.


Are you ready to concede this point, Brother?

BTW, I am a dichotomist, so I see man as soul and physical body, and not soul, spirit, and body. Whenever I say "soul" or "spirit", I am talking about the "inner man".

That which is born of the flesh, is flesh(physical body). That which is born of spirit, is spirit(inner man).

 

[Winman]

Born again(or from above) was in contrast to physical birth.

Birth 1 - physical
birth 2 - spiritual.

You are still not getting it, to be born AGAIN means to be alive AGAIN. To be regenerated means to be alive AGAIN. The scriptures do not say we are "generated", that is, made alive once, they say we are "regenerated" which means made alive AGAIN. We were not born dead, we were born alive, but when we sinned we spiritually died. When we trust Christ we are made alive AGAIN, we are born AGAIN.

You don't get it, you don't know what the word "AGAIN" means. Or, you do, but ignore it.

Luk 15:24 For this my son was dead, and is alive again; he was lost, and is found. And they began to be merry.

Luk 15:32 It was meet that we should make merry, and be glad: for this thy brother was dead, and is alive again; and was lost, and is found.


Did Jesus say the prodigal son was alive for the first time? NO, he said he was alive AGAIN. You can listen to Augustine and your Reformed "scholars", I will believe what Jesus said.

See, you can't explain what Paul meant when he said he was alive once without the law, because if your doctrine is true that would be impossible. But if you believe what Jesus REALLY taught, that a man is born alive, you would easily understand Paul, and see there is no contradiction.

 

[psalms109:31]

We have to be born again and this happen in this dead grave that we live in and it comes from the enduring word of God through Jesus Christ. When we walk away from Jesus and His word we walk away from life.

Matthew 23:
29 “Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You build tombs for the prophets and decorate the graves of the righteous. 30 And you say, ‘If we had lived in the days of our ancestors, we would not have taken part with them in shedding the blood of the prophets.’ 31 So you testify against yourselves that you are the descendants of those who murdered the prophets. 32 Go ahead, then, and complete what your ancestors started!

33 “You snakes! You brood of vipers! How will you escape being condemned to hell? 34 Therefore I am sending you prophets and sages and teachers. Some of them you will kill and crucify; others you will flog in your synagogues and pursue from town to town. 35 And so upon you will come all the righteous blood that has been shed on earth, from the blood of righteous Abel to the blood of Zechariah son of Berekiah, whom you murdered between the temple and the altar. 36 Truly I tell you, all this will come on this generation.

37 “Jerusalem, Jerusalem, you who kill the prophets and stone those sent to you, how often I have longed to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, and you were not willing. 38 Look, your house is left to you desolate. 39 For I tell you, you will not see me again until you say, ‘Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord.’[Psalm 118:26]”

Jeremiah 6:16
This is what the LORD says: “Stand at the crossroads and look; ask for the ancient paths, ask where the good way is, and walk in it, and you will find rest for your souls. But you said, ‘We will not walk in it.’

John 1:11
He came to that which was his own, but his own did not receive him.

Matthew 10:33
But whoever disowns me before others, I will disown before my Father in heaven.

Luke 12:9
But whoever disowns me before others will be disowned before the angels of God.

Revelation 3:5
He who overcomes shall be clothed in white garments, and I will not blot out his name from the Book of Life; but I will confess his name before My Father and before His angels.


I am not talking about a Peter denial, but a total disowning we all are going to have times we stumble, but we are to be assured in Christ Jesus our refuge. We will not be disowned even if we are faithless in times of weakness, because in Christ, Christ cannot disown Himself.

 

[Iconoclast]

And what none of you Calvinists understand is the word AGAIN.

Jesus said we must be born AGAIN. The word regeneration means to be made alive AGAIN.

The scriptures say death passed upon all men for that all have sinned. You must first be alive to die.

A man must be born alive the first time to be born alive AGAIN.

Jesus said the prodigal son was alive AGAIN.

No one can be born dead. To be born, you must be alive for at least a short period of time. We speak of a miscarriage , we say that a child is born dead, but that child was alive for a period of time before it died. You must be alive to die.

You Calvinists teach the false and illogical idea that we were always dead. That is impossible and illogical, nothing can be dead that was not first alive. A stone cannot be said to be dead, because it was never alive.

No man can be dead in sin that was not first alive.

Rom 7:9 For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.

Paul never taught he was born dead, he taught he was alive once, but when the commandment came, sin revived and he died. You must be alive to die. And you must be born alive once to be born alive AGAIN.

All you Calvinists teach is error.

:laugh::laugh::laugh: Great post Winman....I guess it does not bother you at all....that the word means....born from above:thumbsup:

So you post the error yet again.......got to love it!!!!!!

You are still not getting it, to be born AGAIN means to be alive AGAIN.

3 Jesus answered and said to him, `Verily, verily, I say to thee, If any one may not be born from above, he is not able to see the reign of God;'

4 Nicodemus saith unto him, `How is a man able to be born, being old? is he able into the womb of his mother a second time to enter, and to be born?'

5 Jesus answered, `Verily, verily, I say to thee, If any one may not be born of water, and the Spirit, he is not able to enter into the reign of God;

6 that which hath been born of the flesh is flesh, and that which hath been born of the Spirit is spirit.

7 `Thou mayest not wonder that I said to thee, It behoveth you to be born from above;

 

[Iconoclast]

Willis,

I cannot agree to your idea ,as I believe it is unbiblical in several ways

In your idea...men are born spiritually alive.


That would mean they are born indwelt with the Holy Spirit.
That would mean they lose salvation when they commit and act of sin.
that would mean they were not sealed with the Spirit like Eph 1 says.
that would mean romans 3 :23 does not say this as i posted to Winman:


Quote:
8 The use of the aor. in both Romans passages, in their given context, point to an event, i.e., mankind did not simply inherit a sinful nature or tendency from Adam—“all have sinned,” thus referring to personal experience and activity,


but “all sinned” in an event, a point in time (Rom. 3:23, pa,ntej ga.r h[marton kai. u`sterou/ntai th/j do,xhj tou/ qeou/. “For all sinned and are subsequently constantly coming short…”




Rom. 5:12, …diV e`no.j avnqrw,pou h` a`marti,a eivj to.n ko,smon…evfV w-| pa,ntej h[marton. “by one man sin entered into the world…for all sinned.”). Every human being is a sinner by imputation, nature and personal activity.