Are we deceiving children ....

[webdog]

I understand your point, but mine is that no, I didn't spend years building up hopes and dreams and going out of my way to reinforce a false belief that for a child, is about as close as you can get to a belief in G-d, except with the bonus of wrapped presents to show for for it, and the concept of "oh that must have been good enough."

If you are talking about someone raising their kids in a Godless home, I might agree (Why do you spell G_d, BTW? I've only seen orthodox Jews spell if like this)

I know it's an excuse for atheists, but the human brain is interesting. Think about it. With all we know about human behavior and connections, it would REALLY amaze me if a human beings that were raised with a belief for years and then had it taken away did not have that impact them in a major way, both known and unknown in the human psyche. Even wonderful things in our lives that happen for just a day tend to affect us for a lifetime. How much more then something of this magnitude?

Don't be trite with it. Really think about it.

I have. That gives more power to the mind than the Spirit.

For those who celebrate Christmas, why not enjoy the fun of it, but do it by teaching your kids the idea of what Santa is about? Giving to others. Being happy. Finding a critter who is not being treated nice and boosting him up. :love2: (quit wondering what I'm talking about and go read about Rudolph!) There's no need for elaborate tricks. One can still enjoy the concept of Santa without having to kill him off later!

It doesn't have to be an either / or proposition. Everything you mention we do.

 

[Jordan Kurecki]

Yes it is wrong to lie to your children and tell them a fictitious entity with the characteristics of God brings them presents.

The Bible says thou shalt not lie... which is exactly what you are doing.

You know what happens when they find out Santa Clause isn't real? they start questioning God, If I remember correctly in my youth that's what I did..

There is a huge difference between Jesus telling a parable to illustrate truth and flat out lying to your kids to create some sort of sense of thrill.

When you read a fictional book you know it's fictional and that it is only there to tell a story with some value, it's the same thing with a parable. I'm sure the people knew Jesus was not telling literal stories with his parables, I do recall after one of the parables Jesus told the Pharisees knew he was actually talking about them.

 

[Baptist4life]

My grandparents were Christians. My parents were Christians. I grew up in a very God centered home. I can remember at my Baptist church, when I was a child, we always did our children's Christmas play on the last Sunday night before Christmas. We had an older gentleman named Charlie, who, after the Christmas play was over, would come through the back door of the church dressed as Santa Claus and pass out candy to all the kids. IN CHURCH!

That being said, I know of......NONE...........ZERO..........NADA.................ZILCH.........people that lost their belief in God because of Santa Claus. Sorry, but that's the truth.

 

[webdog]

Yes it is wrong to lie to your children and tell them a fictitious entity with the characteristics of God brings them presents.

The Bible says thou shalt not lie... which is exactly what you are doing.

You know what happens when they find out Santa Clause isn't real? they start questioning God, If I remember correctly in my youth that's what I did..

There is a huge difference between Jesus telling a parable to illustrate truth and flat out lying to your kids to create some sort of sense of thrill.

When you read a fictional book you know it's fictional and that it is only there to tell a story with some value, it's the same thing with a parable. I'm sure the people knew Jesus was not telling literal stories with his parables, I do recall after one of the parables Jesus told the Pharisees knew he was actually talking about them.

Pure legalism. Good article against modern day phariseeism...
http://www.bibleissues.org/lying1.html

 

[evenifigoalone]

We used to use this Christmas decoration when our kids were little. They understood:

Awesome! I saw a lawn decoration like that once, I think.

 

[Gina B]

If you are talking about someone raising their kids in a Godless home, I might agree (Why do you spell G_d, BTW? I've only seen orthodox Jews spell if like this)

I have. That gives more power to the mind than the Spirit.

It doesn't have to be an either / or proposition. Everything you mention we do.

As a reminder to think about what I'm typing - that it's not just another name or title to be slammed down and not thought twice of, just put out there like the next guy. It actually feels pretty weird to not do so. I tried it for a few years, never did feel right.

If you're already doing all that and it's not a belief, what are we talking about?! LOL

For those saying it's legalism, how on earth do you get "lying about one thing for years is okay and it's legalism to call it wrong?"

 

[Aaron]

" ... teach your children to 'really' believe ... "??

Oh, wait, that changes the whole thing! I thought you meant just to "believe" in him, but you're talking about "really" believing! That's a whole different ball of wax!

Your initial replies in the thread compel one to go to extreme measures to clarify his meaning.

 

[DocTrinsoGrace]

.... when we tell them things that we know are not true?

Isn't that pretty close to the definition of deception?

 

[thisnumbersdisconnected]

Your initial replies in the thread compel one to go to extreme measures to clarify his meaning.

If you don't understand plain English, that's my problem??

 

[Aaron]

They REALLY believe...because they see me each and every Christmas Eve. I don't know what you are grasping for. I don't sit down with them and teach them the doctrine of Santa or anything. They believe due to going to bed with no presents under the tree, seeing me after midnight and running downstairs to find the living room filled with toys and the cookie gone and milk half gone. Santa also tells them that when they wake up in the morning to remember the greatest gift of all, something Santa or no man can give.

How about a yes or a no?

 

[Aaron]

If you don't understand plain English, that's my problem??

The problem is yours, indubitably, but not for the reason you think.

 

[webdog]

How about a yes or a no?

No thanks. You are not an attorney and I'm not in court. I spent enough time replying in great detail what my position is on an ancient thread that should have been put out of its misery long ago.

 

[InTheLight]

... thread that should have been put out of its misery long ago.

Doesn't the Santa Claus thread come up every year? Anyway, my take on this is there are degrees of deception and telling kids about Santa Claus barely moves the needle. It's harmless. There's a bunch of curmudgeons and killjoys weighing in on trivial concerns here. "Telling your kids there is a Santa Claus is A SIN!" - - absurd.

So to all you holier-than-thou's out there how would you handle these thorny questions from your child? Remember, don't lie.

10 year old: "Mom, will we see our dog Muffy in heaven after she dies?"

18 year old: "Have you ever smoked pot?"

17 year old: "dad, do you ever wonder what it would be like to have s@x with another woman besides Mom?"

20 year old: "Did you ever drink beer before you turned 21?"

8 year old : "Mom, have you ever lied to Dad?"

12 year old: "Have you ever used the Lord's name when cussing?"

And the classic--Nazi soldiers knock on door of household hiding Anne Frank: " Are you hiding any Jews in your house?"

 

[Jordan Kurecki]

Pure legalism. Good article against modern day phariseeism...
http://www.bibleissues.org/lying1.html

So telling the truth is legalism?

if that's so than I'd rather be legalistic than a sinner any day.

 

[Jordan Kurecki]

So to all you holier-than-thou's out there how would you handle these thorny questions from your child? Remember, don't lie.

10 year old: "Mom, will we see our dog Muffy in heaven after she dies?"
I don't know.
18 year old: "Have you ever smoked pot?"
Yes and it ruined my life and my relationship with God and the bible says it is a sin.

17 year old: "dad, do you ever wonder what it would be like to have s@x with another woman besides Mom?" Depends on the context/environment, if alone explain that lust is a real problem that some people have a hard time with, explain what Jesus said about looking at a woman to lust after and explain why we need to depend on God to give us victory over these things

20 year old: "Did you ever drink beer before you turned 21?"
Yes and it ruined my life and relationship with God

8 year old : "Mom, have you ever lied to Dad?"
Yes and lying is a sin and I shouldn't do that.

12 year old: "Have you ever used the Lord's name when cussing?"
Yes and that is a sin that we shouldn't do
And the classic--Nazi soldiers knock on door of household hiding Anne Frank: " Are you hiding any Jews in your house? Personally I would tell the truth, Their life is in God's hands not mine, God put them in that authority and I am to obey authority unless they are asking me to sin, My lying could ruin the testimony of Christ to those in authority that God would want to save them, in instances like this you just have to do right and trust God

Seriously what are you going to do, put a false image of yourself in front of your kids? Kid needs to see that we are humble and willing to admit our mistakes, Parents are still human and make mistakes and shame on you if you lie to your kids to hide your own sins. God honors those who are humble, and it takes humility to admit your failures in front of your kids.

 

[Aaron]

No thanks. You are not an attorney and I'm not in court. I spent enough time replying in great detail what my position is on an ancient thread that should have been put out of its misery long ago.

Then your answer is yes. You teach your children to believe in Santa Claus.

What would be the counsel of Christ and His Apostles?

 

[Aaron]

So to all you holier-than-thou's out there how would you handle these thorny questions from your child? Remember, don't lie.

10 year old: "Mom, will we see our dog Muffy in heaven after she dies?"

18 year old: "Have you ever smoked pot?"

17 year old: "dad, do you ever wonder what it would be like to have s@x with another woman besides Mom?"

20 year old: "Did you ever drink beer before you turned 21?"

8 year old : "Mom, have you ever lied to Dad?"

12 year old: "Have you ever used the Lord's name when cussing?"

And the classic--Nazi soldiers knock on door of household hiding Anne Frank: " Are you hiding any Jews in your house?"

Thorny? These are easy—for Calvinists, anyway. For you whose acceptance depends upon some sort of inherent goodness, I would understand why your first recourse would be to lie.

 

[evenifigoalone]

"OMG (oh my glob), your kids believe in Santa Claus! How dare you call yourself a Christian!"
"OMG, your kids don't believe in Santa Claus! Legalist!"

It's perfectly fine to agree to disagree, y'know. Our opinions don't need to be forced on others.:thumbsup:

 

[Gina B]

Doesn't the Santa Claus thread come up every year?

Yep. Isn't the board fun? Hehehe!

Anyway, my take on this is there are degrees of deception and telling kids about Santa Claus barely moves the needle. It's harmless. There's a bunch of curmudgeons and killjoys weighing in on trivial concerns here. "Telling your kids there is a Santa Claus is A SIN!" - - absurd.

It's the bigger picture in question here - not trying to take joy away, because the whole idea can still be had, and much joy and fun along with it too, without the lie. Like I said, the concept, the idea of giving. Having that embodied in a jolly old dude? Why not? It doesn't mean you actually have to teach them it's real to have all that though, right?

So to all you holier-than-thou's out there how would you handle these thorny questions from your child? Remember, don't lie.

I take it you mean anyone who doesn't agree with you...

Your questions aren't thorny. They're just questions kids ask. You sound young. I deal with multiple kids on a regular basis. The questions from kids are all perfectly normal. I work with kids and have had questions asked that would make a street walker pass out. :tonofbricks:

There's no reason to lie about any of the questions to the kids. I've had those, including the drugs and drinking ones (btw, 18 used to be the drinking age) and I don't get your point. You lie about those too?! Why? That's pretty crazy.
And for the record, here are my answers, but in random order and only to some.

No.
Yes.
Glory be.
Would like to explore that one some more!



Your questions all deal with one time situations and then you jump to a life and death situation. None of these address establishing faith in something that mimics the Christian savior, which is the heart of the original question.

 

[saturneptune]

" ... teach your children to 'really' believe ... "??

Oh, wait, that changes the whole thing! I thought you meant just to "believe" in him, but you're talking about "really" believing! That's a whole different ball of wax!

What??? And why do I get the impression you're preparing an Inquisition trial complete with a pile of kindling around a telephone pole out back, depending on his answer?

This thread is getting more ludicrous by the (Aaron) post.

And this from a guy that puts a Santa hat on Moses. Wonder if he was wearing that when he came down from the mountain with the tablets or parted the Red Sea?

Also, when Moses was confronting pharaoh, his quote was "let my people go, ho, ho, ho."

On the serious side, this has got to take the cake for meaningless threads. I raised a family like everyone else here, and IMO, excluding Santa, Easter Bunny, etc, took away from your children a normal and happy part of growing up. It does not take away from Scripture or the Gospel, or Jesus Christ one bit. That is the type of warped thinking that accomplishes nothing. If you had spent as much time telling others about Jesus as you did keeping Santa and the flying reindeer at bay, lots more people would have heard the Gospel.

With all those who believe in KJVO on this board, I would think belief in Santa would be a natural thing.