OldRegular
Well-Known Member
I use those Scripture on occasion. They make a significant point which I would state as :Christians are Spiritual Jews.
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Are we now living in the Messainic Age promised thru the OT Prophets/NT Apostles?
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I use those Scripture on occasion. They make a significant point which I would state as :Christians are Spiritual Jews.
Yes, and Psalm 14:1 says "There is no God." And it literally says that, word for word. It isn't even a paraphrase such as you have.
OldRegular
Well-Known Member
Psalms 14:1. KJV
The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that doeth good.
Psalms 14:1. NASB
The fool has said in his heart, “There is no God.” They are corrupt, they have committed abominable deeds; There is no one who does good.
I used extra large print so you could see what Psalms 14:1 really says, DHK. I take that verse from the KJV and the NASB. Perhaps you should buy one of each.
I am not sure what you mean by paraphrase other than you are referring to the HCSB. However if we look at the more literal KJV or NASB we learn the same thing!
Romans 2:28, 29 KJV
28. For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:
29. But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.
Romans 2:28, 29 NASB
28. For he is not a Jew who is one outwardly; neither is circumcision that which is outward in the flesh.
29. But he is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is that which is of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the letter; and his praise is not from men, but from God.
Philippians 3:2,3 KJV
2. Beware of dogs, beware of evil workers, beware of the concision.
3. For we are the circumcision, which worship God in the spirit, and rejoice in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh.
Philippians 3:2,3 NASB
2. Beware of the dogs, beware of the evil workers, beware of the false circumcision;
3. for we are the true circumcision, who worship in the Spirit of God and glory in Christ Jesus and put no confidence in the flesh,
Then there are additional Scripture to support the position by Bosley and me.
Colossians 2:9-12 KJV
9. For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.
10. And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:
11. In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:
12. Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.
Colossians 2:9-12 NASB
9. For in Him all the fulness of Deity dwells in bodily form,
10. and in Him you have been made complete, and He is the head over all rule and authority;
11. and in Him you were also circumcised with a circumcision made without hands, in the removal of the body of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ;
12. having been buried with Him in baptism, in which you were also raised up with Him through faith in the working of God, who raised Him from the dead.
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:thumbs: good stuff OR. Of course "you ripped it out of context" and blah blah... :BangHead: And I don't understand that "paraphrase" comment either. If DHK thinks the HCSB is a paraphrase then he needs serious help.
DHK, this is the extend of my reply to you. You are wrong. Those verses, in their context, still say the same thing - Christians are spiritually true Israel, true Jews. That does not mean that Jews according to the flesh don't exist, that's nonsense and not my position. Your explanations are almost as bad a twisting of the scriptures as Winman's.
Anyway, I will not again discuss things with you, at least for a time. I would block you, but sadly as you are (somehow) a mod I cannot.
OldRegular
Well-Known Member
I have responded in depth to the above nonsense using Scripture. However, I must say it is disgusting that you would extract that statement from a single verse to achieve your purpose! I would never post the words you did on a Forum and declare it was taught in the Bible. The verse actually tells us:
Psalms 14:1. KJV
The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that doeth good.
Psalms 14:1. NASB
The fool has said in his heart, “There is no God.” They are corrupt, they have committed abominable deeds; There is no one who does good.
This is an irrational post.
You have taken your positon and assumed you are right.
Upon that assumption you assume I am wrong without any evidence.
From there you build an irrattional and emtional case which includes innuendos. You are right and I am wrong be default. That is your position. Fairly ridiculous.
I note that you avoid any debate on Romans 2:27,28. Perhaps you won't debate that passage because you know deep down in your heart your interpretation of it is wrong. You just can't come out and say I am wrong without evidence, and yet you do. Arrogantly, dogmatically, with an air of authority (but with no evidence) you give the papal announcement that I am wrong and you are right.
You haven't given one ounce of time to the discussion of Romans 2:28,29.
You should be ashamed of yourself.
I freely admit I took Psalm 14:1 out of context. I did so on purpose. Will you freely admit that others, including yourself took Romans 2:27-29 out of context? What is good for the goose is good for the gander.
http://www.baptistboard.com/editpost.php?do=editpost&p=2139571
I know exactly what they say. I quoted it word for word out of the KJV. I may have quoted it out of context. I had a reason for doing so.
My reason was just the same as most of you have a reason for using Romans 2:27-29 out of context, but you won't admit that, will you?
It was an example. It made my point quite clearly.
I simply used the word paraphrase because you were not quoting directy from the passage in Romans 2. You were stating a teaching that is a false conclusion.
Let's look at scripture one by one, and in the contexts they are given. I believe that is more beneficial.
So prove that Romans 2:27-29 was not taken out of context and teaches what you think it teaches. Otherwise it is just as valid as the portion of Psalm 14:1 that I quoted to you--IOW, not valid at all.
It is not teaching what you purport it to be teaching. You must prove it to be so.
OldRegular
Well-Known Member
Show me where I have been "bested in a debate" on this thread.
Not one of you have even attempted to answer this post:
http://www.baptistboard.com/showpost.php?p=2139359&postcount=40
I explained what Romans 2:27-29 means there.
You just flatly refuse and say "I am right and you are wrong."
That is what children do. If you have an ounce of maturity in you, take the passage and exegete it. Expound it within its context and show from the context that I am wrong. No one has done that.
No we are not!
Apostle paul point that he was making is that the spiritual Jews are physical ones, who have become Christians by receiving Jesus as promised Messiah, that makes them real descendants of Abraham, NOT that somehow gentiles become jews!
OldRegular
Well-Known Member
No one said Christians are Israelites. In fact a Christian should be offended if called an unbelieving Israelite. I said Christians are spiritual Jews on the basis of Scripture presented by both Bosley and me.
Regardless of your exaggerations that does not excuse the blasphemy of your post:
OldRegular
Well-Known Member
You are as unlearned as DHK! You need to study the Scripture presented by Bosley and me!
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What are you saying? You can't refute the post or give an intelligent answer.
The chapter is addressed to Jews, not Christians.
Romans 2:28,29 in no way teaches the Biblical error that Christianity came out of Israel, is an extension of Israel, or replaced Israel. All of the above is false.
What does it say:
Rom 2:28 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:
Rom 2:29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.
It simply says that being a Jew is more than adhering to an outward appearance and obeying physical religious rites. Being a Jew is havng a change of heart inwardly. Not only did they have to obey the law of circumcision outwardly, but also inwardly. They couldn't simply boast "Look I've been circumcised of the flesh, and therefore I am a Jew." God does't accept that. God accepts a change of heart. That change had to come from the Spirit, not by the letter.
He is speaking to Jews, not to Christians.
You haven't answered my post yet.
You are quite emotional here, and quick to accuse of blasephemy.
Consider what David said, and then accuse him of blashemy. I simply quoted his words.
Psa 14:1 To the chief Musician, A Psalm of David. The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that doeth good.
I freely admitted I quoted the verse out of context. But the words are still there. The point is that you take Romans 2:28,29 just like I took that phrase out of its context. Why are you so angry?
You can't make Romans 2:28,29 to teach replacement theology or anything close to it. The church is not an extension of Israel, and that verse does not even come close to teaching it. It teaches replacement theology just like Psalm 14:1 teaches atheism. The context in both are ignored. That is the point. Consider it well.
Greektim
Well-Known Member
Read it again... wolves w/ lambs... and this is why we don't trust your theology.
There is more to it than what the OP had. The kingdom/reign of God has begun in Jesus. New creation has broken into the world. But the present evil age continues as well until the return of Jesus. The time between the times.
OldRegular
Well-Known Member
An intelligent Christian takes all of Scripture. You are ignoring the passages from Colossians and Philippians!
Romans 2:28, 29 KJV
28. For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:
29. But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.
Romans 2:28, 29 NASB
28. For he is not a Jew who is one outwardly; neither is circumcision that which is outward in the flesh.
29. But he is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is that which is of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the letter; and his praise is not from men, but from God.
Philippians 3:2,3 KJV
2. Beware of dogs, beware of evil workers, beware of the concision.
3. For we are the circumcision, which worship God in the spirit, and rejoice in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh.
Philippians 3:2,3 NASB
2. Beware of the dogs, beware of the evil workers, beware of the false circumcision;
3. for we are the true circumcision, who worship in the Spirit of God and glory in Christ Jesus and put no confidence in the flesh,
Colossians 2:9-12 KJV
9. For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.
10. And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:
11. In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:
12. Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.
Colossians 2:9-12 NASB
9. For in Him all the fulness of Deity dwells in bodily form,
10. and in Him you have been made complete, and He is the head over all rule and authority;
11. and in Him you were also circumcised with a circumcision made without hands, in the removal of the body of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ;
12. having been buried with Him in baptism, in which you were also raised up with Him through faith in the working of God, who raised Him from the dead.
Now compare what we are told in Romans with the passages from Colossians and Philippians!
And I still contend it is blasphemy to post the words you did. Is that the way you evangelize?
Not only is it blasphemy it is a lie. Scripture does not say that.
Psalms 14:1. KJV
The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that doeth good.
Psalms 14:1. NASB
The fool has said in his heart, “There is no God.” They are corrupt, they have committed abominable deeds; There is no one who does good.
I used extra large print so you could see what Psalms 14:1 really says, DHK. I take that verse from the KJV and the NASB.
An intelligent Christian would be able to explain the passage within the context. You cant do that. I can explain the other passages. I prefer to take one at a time. First Romans 2:28,29.
Romans 2:28, 29 KJV
28. For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:
29. But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.
Now compare what we are told in Romans with the passages from Colossians and Philippians![/quote]
Absolutely nothing different. The teaching is the same. But first explain Romans 2:28,29.
The Bible doesn't teach error, nor does it keep on repeating error.
You keep repeating error and are unable to support your error with any explanation of scripture. I simply quoted a part of a verse to show what you do. You quote scripture out of context. That is not blaspemy at all. Are the words in scripture or not? Yes or no.
It is never blasphemous to quote the Word of God.
It is wrong to take it out of context. I already admitted that I did that. However, I did it to teach you that you do the same thing with the Scripture that you post. Don't learn do you?
I have the verse memorized. I don't need your help.
OldRegular
Well-Known Member
I agree! The Bible does not teach error. However, that is a strange comment coming from a dispensationalist, you teach error!
You lie and you know it! You did not quote the Word of God, you blasphemed God and His Word!
I show again just what you posted!
Scripture says!
Psalms 14:1. KJV
The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that doeth good.
Psalms 14:1. NASB
The fool has said in his heart, “There is no God.” They are corrupt, they have committed abominable deeds; There is no one who does good.
I used extra large print so you could see what Psalms 14:1 really says, DHK. If you claim God said what you posted you are clearly blaspheming God.
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Enough is enough OR.
Either expound or explain Romans 2:27-29 according to your view in a biblical manner, or drop out of this discussion.
Stop with the name-calling and innuendos. Stick with the Scriptures.
If you can't explain Romans 2:27-29 within its context then I will have good reason to believe you are teaching error.
Here's the situation.
Without offence to anyone:
One can make the Bible say anything that they want to make it say.
They can make it teach atheism.
Madelyn O'Hare used to teach that the Bible was harmful, especially to children. It taught that people should cut off their hands, and pluck out their eyes. Very ugly teaching indeed!
I spend much of my time in the Other Christian Denominations Forum.
Catholics take Scripture and try to prove Purgatory.
But then so do some Baptists. It is called Millennial Exclusion--a type of Baptist Purgatory.
Catholics will also use the Bible to prove transubstantiation. They claim the ECF believed in it.
They will also use Scripture to demonstrate baptismal regeneration.
The point is that you can use the bible to teach anything you want it to teach, including Replacement Theology, or that Christianity is an extension of Israel.
But if you are unable to take a passage and explain it from its context showing what it means then perhaps you should consider that you are wrong.
Doctrine does not come by "Papal Decree."
It comes by sound exegesis, and expository teaching of the Word of God.
It does not come by proof-texting.
Without offence to anyone:
One can make the Bible say anything that they want to make it say.
They can make it teach atheism.
Madelyn O'Hare used to teach that the Bible was harmful, especially to children. It taught that people should cut off their hands, and pluck out their eyes. Very ugly teaching indeed!
I spend much of my time in the Other Christian Denominations Forum.
Catholics take Scripture and try to prove Purgatory.
But then so do some Baptists. It is called Millennial Exclusion--a type of Baptist Purgatory.
Catholics will also use the Bible to prove transubstantiation. They claim the ECF believed in it.
They will also use Scripture to demonstrate baptismal regeneration.
The point is that you can use the bible to teach anything you want it to teach, including Replacement Theology, or that Christianity is an extension of Israel.
But if you are unable to take a passage and explain it from its context showing what it means then perhaps you should consider that you are wrong.
Doctrine does not come by "Papal Decree."
It comes by sound exegesis, and expository teaching of the Word of God.
It does not come by proof-texting.
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