Are we reaching men?

[Luke2427]

"The stallions hang out in bars; the geldings hang out in church." David Murrow.

Mark Driscol said the church has produced "a bunch of nice, soft, tender, chickified church boys. … Sixty percent of Christians are chicks," he explains, "and the forty percent that are dudes are still sort of chicks."

I think this is true as unpleasant as it may make men who are "chickified" themselves feel.

I grew up in a rough crowd.

Most of the men I grew up with would find this Joel Osteen type ministry to be repulsive. And not just the substance of it, but the STYLE of it. I know most of you would be against the substance but some of you seem to embrace the style.

Men who pull wire, hang sheet rock, roof houses, plow fields, ride horses, lay pipe, hang shingles, pave roads, come home to Monday Night Football and a few beers, rent a UFC pay-per-view every once in a while, etc... tend to find Christian men who mince words and speak sweetly to be effeminate.

I have had the greatest success looking them in the eye and telling them, "Look man- you walk on God's earth, you breath his air. It is wickedness for you to refuse to serve him."

You'll reach them by being REAL a whole lot better than by being "sweet".

We wonder why our churches are full of mostly women- it is the utter repudiation of manliness like that that so many do on this very board often.

 

[HeirofSalvation]

You are "Spot-on"....I was in construction for 7 years....I was in the Marine Corps for 4:

Marines always HATED the Navy Chaplain, because, he "cussed" like them and in his own (idiot) mind, that made him palatable...It didn't..They actually hated hearing a chaplain cuss....He thought it would help: God knows what verses he used to reach that conclusion

The Navy Chaplain was a wussy fellow who tried to "act" like he was a man...none of the Marines bought it:
There were some very REAL "MEN" who were in their platoon who could reach them.....
Similarly, we have in our area a "beast feast" wherein the Southern Baptists...(others are welcome I assume)...get together and commit some senseless murder on some wild animals and then the men (who murdered such creatures) collectively bar-b-que Bambi...and then listen to some real preaching...

It's a GREAT idea...truth is...Satan has destroyed the Church by destroying our familys, he destroyed our familys by destroying the MEN in them...Churches followed suit by appealing to women who went to Church in order to provide what their husbands were supposed to provide at home...

Women simply substituted Godly husbands for effiminate Churches...
And the pain continues:

 

[Scarlett O.]

"Stallions? ..... geldings? ..... chicks?" Really? I think that kind of verbiage says alot about the men that you are quoting.

And really? Driscol thinks that ALL the men who attend church are "chickified" .... "sort of"?

Luke, I'm not aggrevated at you, but at this mindset from the men you've quoted. I've heard it a lot.

I have a lot of "manly men" at my church. Men who fight criminals everyday, men who served their country under terrible conditions, men who build big things, tear things down, defend the law, drive big trucks, go mud hogging, drive in motorcycle gangs, wear scraggly beards and more.

And you know what?

These same manly men aren't afraid to sing in the choir. They aren't afraid to get on floor with 4 year olds and 1st graders in VBS and AWANA and teach children the Word of God.

They aren't afraid to go to the prayer altar and pray - by themselves or with someone who is burdened. They aren't afraid to sing old hymns or contemporary praise songs. They aren't afraid to clap while singing congregational songs. They aren't afraid to share - their testimony or a word from God.

I take offense FOR men that there are other men out there who refuse to go to church and like to blame it on the church being "chickified".

I'd like to see that hold up on Judgment Day. I'd like to see the man who forgoes worshipping in God's house tell God to His Face that "Well, gee, God ..... I would of went to church except they wanted me to sing in the choir and play games at Vacation Bible School with 1st graders. And gosh .... some of those guys cried at the altar and wanted to talk about "spiritual" things all the time. They even wanted me to give my testimony and go visiting. You know me, God. I'm a manly man. I don't do those things. That's women's work"

For men who refuse to attend church because the atmosphere and activities don't measure up to their standards of manhood are giving a poor excuse.

And for people like Mark Driscol to imply that ALL men who attend church are "feminine" is silly and offensive to the men who actually DO attend church and serve God mightily.

Manly men can serve God QUITE mightily whether preaching from pulpit or serving in the nursery.

 

[Amy.G]

So, how can it be fixed? I'm a woman and I don't want sissy men or sissy churches either.

 

[Scarlett O.]

The Navy Chaplain was a wussy fellow who tried to "act" like he was a man...none of the Marines bought it:

(Dear brother .... please look up the etymology of the word "wussy" or "wuss". I promise you that you will never use the word again if you do. Peace to you ....)

 

[Luke2427]

"Stallions? ..... geldings? ..... chicks?" Really? I think that kind of verbiage says alot about the men that you are quoting.

And really? Driscol thinks that ALL the men who attend church are "chickified" .... "sort of"?

Luke, I'm not aggrevated at you, but at this mindset from the men you've quoted. I've heard it a lot.

I have a lot of "manly men" at my church. Men who fight criminals everyday, men who served their country under terrible conditions, men who build big things, tear things down, defend the law, drive big trucks, go mud hogging, drive in motorcycle gangs, wear scraggly beards and more.

And you know what?

These same manly men aren't afraid to sing in the choir.

What does "fear" have to do with it? Why would ANYBODY on EARTH be "AFRAID" to sing in a choir???

Who said manly men don't sing in the choir????

Are you actually addressing ME and I said???

They aren't afraid to get on floor with 4 year olds and 1st graders in VBS and AWANA and teach children the Word of God.

So what's your point??? And to WHOM are you trying to make it??

Who has said ANYTHING contrary to anything you say here???

They aren't afraid to go to the prayer altar and pray - by themselves or with someone who is burdened. They aren't afraid to sing old hymns or contemporary praise songs. They aren't afraid to clap while singing congregational songs. They aren't afraid to share - their testimony or a word from God.

So what's your point?

Who said manliness is not compatible with those things?

Who are you addressing- because you used my name and I can't see why.

I take offense FOR men that there are other men out there who refuse to go to church and like to blame it on the church being "chickified".

Then take offense. That's up to you. But the facts are the facts and most of the men who are like the ones I describe are not going to love Joel Osteen type ministers.

Men who run their homes, who work hard, actually HAVE TESTOSTERONE.... they simply are not going to like that kind of ministry.

You are hopefully not eat up with testosterone so I don't know if you can understand this.

But I think you may have a PROBLEM with men who are authoritative, aggressive, leaders who are not afraid to fight and make the hard decision with or without full support from their wives.

Am I right?

I'd like to see that hold up on Judgment Day. I'd like to see the man who forgoes worshipping in God's house tell God to His Face that "Well, gee, God ..... I would of went to church except they wanted me to sing in the choir and play games at Vacation Bible School with 1st graders. And gosh .... some of those guys cried at the altar and wanted to talk about "spiritual" things all the time. They even wanted me to give my testimony and go visiting. You know me, God. I'm a manly man. I don't do those things. That's women's work"

No man will open his mouth at the judgment. Neither will any woman.

But many women and sissified ministers will HEAR from God a fierce rebuke for making ministry so effeminate when God himself is masculine and always intended for the church to be led by masculine men- not women and woman-like men.

For men who refuse to attend church because the atmosphere and activities don't measure up to their standards of manhood are giving a poor excuse.

No, no, they are GIVEN a good excuse by the likes of women and sissified men.

Will it hold up? Nope. Neither will the excuses given by sissified men for effeminizing the church in this age.

And for people like Mark Driscol to imply that ALL men who attend church are "feminine" is silly and offensive to the men who actually DO attend church and serve God mightily.

It was OBVIOUSLY hyperbole. Driscol pastors one of the largest churches on earth and he doesn't think his men are like that.

He OBVIOUSLY was saying that wussiness is rampant in the church today and he is right.

Manly men can serve God QUITE mightily whether preaching from pulpit or serving in the nursery.

I would not be comfortable with a man keeping my small children- nor should they desire to do so.

 

[Luke2427]

So, how can it be fixed? I'm a woman and I don't want sissy men or sissy churches either.

I don't know all the answers but for one thing we could stop repudiating manliness and aggressiveness or ANYTHING testosterone driven in our churches.

We can stop expecting men to be and think like women.

We can stop being so focused on FEELINGS and focus more on reason and logic.

We can stop our young male singers from singing effeminately for church specials. This is hard to illustrate on a forum like this.

We can encourage men to make most of the decisions in the home and the church and expect women to support them.

We can have activities that are uniquely manly for men- skeet shooting, wilderness camping, quail hunting, wild game suppers, drag races, tractor pulls, etc... (yes I know some of you women like these things too. That's fine, I don't want to argue about that).

We can start teaching our little boys to grow up to be responsible providers and defenders and leaders of the home and start teaching our little girls to support their husbands not try to be their authoritative equals.

I could go on.

 

[salzer mtn]

"The stallions hang out in bars; the geldings hang out in church." David Murrow.

Mark Driscol said the church has produced "a bunch of nice, soft, tender, chickified church boys. … Sixty percent of Christians are chicks," he explains, "and the forty percent that are dudes are still sort of chicks."

I think this is true as unpleasant as it may make men who are "chickified" themselves feel.

I grew up in a rough crowd.

Most of the men I grew up with would find this Joel Osteen type ministry to be repulsive. And not just the substance of it, but the STYLE of it. I know most of you would be against the substance but some of you seem to embrace the style.

Men who pull wire, hang sheet rock, roof houses, plow fields, ride horses, lay pipe, hang shingles, pave roads, come home to Monday Night Football and a few beers, rent a UFC pay-per-view every once in a while, etc... tend to find Christian men who mince words and speak sweetly to be effeminate.

I have had the greatest success looking them in the eye and telling them, "Look man- you walk on God's earth, you breath his air. It is wickedness for you to refuse to serve him."

You'll reach them by being REAL a whole lot better than by being "sweet".

We wonder why our churches are full of mostly women- it is the utter repudiation of manliness like that that so many do on this very board often.

Could it be Luke you are just missing your day's of running with the bad boys and and a rough crowd ? Sounds to me like your heart is already back with them. You know what the scripture say's about a man that put's his hands to the plow and looketh back. You cannot approach all men with a bull in a china shop attitude, maybe some but not all. Some people are weary and heavy laden and have been knocked down by abuse and need a kind word spoken to them rather than a hostile rebuke.

 

[InTheLight]

Nicely played!

[Luke leads the league in the strawmen per threads started category.]

 

[Scarlett O.]

Luke, I addressed the two quotes that you cited. They both state - and the hyperbole is irrelevant, because the meaning was clear - that men who attend church aren't manly men.

I was not talking about you nor referring to you. I told you - I was not aggrevated with you, but with the message of the men who made the quotes.

I do not have issues with masculine men who lead the church.

Consider me now bowed out. :flower:

 

[Luke2427]

Could it be Luke you are just missing your day's of running with the bad boys and and a rough crowd ? Sounds to me like your heart is already back with them. You know what the scripture say's about a man that put's his hands to the plow and looketh back.

How does what I said lead you to that conclusion?

You cannot approach all men with a bull in a china shop attitude, maybe some but not all.

I don't know what you mean by bull in a china shop. Did I say that?

What did I say that made you use that reference.

Some people are weary and heavy laden and have been knocked down by abuse and need a kind word spoken to them rather than a hostile rebuke.

You can do either in a manly way. What is killing us with men is expecting men to talk to men like women talk to women.

Even hurting men do not want to be coddled and caressed by other men. They just want a man to say, "Hey, Dude- I know its tough. Hang in there. God is on his throne and he is going to work this out for his glory. The thing you need to do is make sure you surrender your self to Him."

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

So, how can it be fixed? I'm a woman and I don't want sissy men or sissy churches either.

Testosterone supplements!

 

[HeirofSalvation]

(Dear brother .... please look up the etymology of the word "wussy" or "wuss". I promise you that you will never use the word again if you do. Peace to you ....)

I rarely...use ANY word without knowledge of BOTH it's "denotative" and it's "conotative" meaning...you requested that I etymologically research the "conotative" meaning of that word (I already thought I knew it) but, I did so...
I learned NOTHING that I didn't already know....
I used the word, and I will use it again, I was aware of what I posted the first time...and I am aware of what I post now, but, again....I don't cringe in fear of any sign of indignation from a woman...
That makes me a "man"...and we don't have "MEN" in our Churches...that's the onus of the OP...
I used the word "Wussy" I also meant it...the comedian Christopher Titus is a good one for members of B.B. to familiarize themselves with BTW....
I challenge you to look up the word "MAN"... if you do, you might not like what you see, but you might not use the word again:

Blessings to you.

 

[Luke2427]

Nicely played!

[Luke leads the league in the strawmen per threads started category.]

How so?

Is this yet another drive-by insult post- one in which you make an insulting claim offering no support and then flee for the hills?

I don't know how a person has a conscience that allows them to do this?

Are you a man? I honestly don't know.

 

[Jerome]

"I hear it boasted of a man’s ministry, although it gradually diminishes the congregation, that it is doing a great work among thoughtful young men. I confess that I am not a believer in the existence of these thoughtful young men—those who mistake themselves for such I have generally found to be more conceited than thoughtful." —Charles Spurgeon, "Our Manifesto"

 

[Scarlett O.]

...I don't cringe in fear of any sign of indignation from a woman...

I know I just said I was bowed out, but I must say that cringing in fear of me and speaking to you in an indignant manner never crossed my mind, brother. I spoke to you very respectfully.

I just asked you to research the two words (one being the most very vulgar I can think of) that the word comes from. I've come across a lot of men and women and boys and girls who are younger than me who don't know that.

C'est la vie. Use the word in peace. :flower:

Finis

 

[Luke2427]

"I hear it boasted of a man’s ministry, although it gradually diminishes the congregation, that it is doing a great work among thoughtful young men. I confess that I am not a believer in the existence of these thoughtful young men—those who mistake themselves for such I have generally found to be more conceited than thoughtful." —Charles Spurgeon, "Our Manifesto"

So what is your point?

How in the world do you think this post has anything to do with this thread.

 

[abcgrad94]

I've seen REAL MEN:
cry
change diapers
sing high tenor
talk respectfully to others
defer to their wives in silence

and one more:
I've seen REAL MEN debate on BB without swaggering throughout the forum like a bull in a china shop, arrogantly condemning everyone who dares disagree with their theology. These are the men who know how to debate in LOVE.

Jesus was a real man. He cried. He liked kids. He spent time talking to women. But the "manliest man" attribute I can see in Jesus Christ was that He showed LOVE. When men truly love God and others, being a manly man will soon follow.

 

[Luke2427]

I've seen REAL MEN:
cry
change diapers
sing high tenor
talk respectfully to others
defer to their wives in silence

Yea, I've done all of that, too. What's your point??

Jesus was a real man. He cried. He liked kids. He spent time talking to women.

Once again, what is your point? how have you said anything contrary to what I have purported??

But the "manliest man" attribute I can see in Jesus Christ was that He showed LOVE. When men truly love God and others, being a manly man will soon follow.

Now thats a bit silly.

Love is the manliest attribute?

So when women love they are displaying the manliest attribute of all?

Can you not see how ridiculous that is?

Men should love because they are people- not because they are men.

This is part of the problem with Christians these days. When you ask them what makes a man uniquely a man they start listing stuff that women are just as suited for or more so.

This is the problem. You don't even know what being a man MEANS. You define it as being womanly or at least as doing the same things women excel in.

Being a man means changing diapers and singing high tenor and what else? being dainty (the opposite of a bull in a china shop), wearing lace, deferring to women (wait a minute!!! HA! you actually DID list that one!)

 

[Jerome]

Charles Spurgeon preaching from Romans 16 (v. 3 "Greet Priscilla and Aquila"):

"I should not wonder but he put them in order according to quality rather than according to the rule of sex. He named Priscilla, first, because she was first in energy of character and attainments in Divine Grace. There is a precedence which, in Christ, is due to the woman when she becomes the leader in devotion and manifests the stronger mind in the things of God. It is well when Nature and Grace both authorize our saying, 'Aquila and Priscilla,' but it is not amiss when Grace outruns Nature and we hear of, 'Priscilla and Aquila.'"