Are You a Calvinist or a Non-Cal?

[InTheLight]

Pretty simple question. Do you identify yourself as a Calvinist or a non-Calvinist?

No hedging or defining it. No "I'm a four-pointer" or "I prefer to be called Reformed".

Yes or No.

 

[mandym]

I am a Christian. I don't want to be considered anything in relation to calvinism. Calvinism is not the standard by which to measure one's faith.

 

[InTheLight]

I am a Christian. I don't want to be considered anything in relation to calvinism. Calvinism is not the standard by which to measure one's faith.

So that's a No?

 

[JonC]

I am a Christian. I don't want to be considered anything in relation to calvinism. Calvinism is not the standard by which to measure one's faith.

That’s the hard part with this topic. By choosing “non-cal” you have measured you faith in relation to Calvinism (as you have pointed out).

Calvinism is a little undefined these days. For example, I can accept “perseverance of the saints,” of course my view is more of “OSAS,” so some would point out the difference while others take that to be perseverance. I could accept “limited atonement,” but for me it is actually “limited redemption.” Many who hold to limited atonement actually understand it as limited redemption while others see a difference.

Many hold Calvinism to be restricted to soteriology while others follow the system to a fuller extent. I disagree in the traditional Calvinistic eschatological view. But there are pre-trib Calvinists.

Many Calvinists reject free will in that sinners accept Christ, while others (such as Spurgeon) see themselves as Calvinists with “additions,” (more of a compatiblist view).

“Non-cal” could mean one who has a Reformed soteriology, but holds a pre-tribulation view.

So, undefined Calvinism is just as meaningless as “non-cal.” You almost have to go issue by issue.

 

[Tom Butler]

Yep, I'm one of those DoGs.

Some might call me a Junkyard DoG.

 

[David Lamb]

Surely for this poll to make any sense, we need to know how you, InTheLight, would define "Calvinist". In my time on the BB, I have seen some people say that Calvinism insists you can be saved without believing on the Lord Jesus Christ, some that Calvinists have no concern for evangelism, even one who thought that Calvinists insist on reciting the Lord's Prayer and the Apostles' Creed at least once every service, and doing that, and partaking in the Lord's Supper, are the basis for their assurance!

I don't believe any of those things, yet if I ticked "I am a Calvinist", at least some people may think I did!

 

[jonathan.borland]

Okay, so define Calvinist by the generally agreed upon tulip test:

Total depravity
Unconditional election
Limited atonement
Irresistible grace
Perseverance of saints

If you don't hold to all these click non-Calvinist.

 

[David Lamb]

Okay, so define Calvinist by the generally agreed upon tulip test:

Total depravity
Unconditional election
Limited atonement
Irresistible grace
Perseverance of saints

If you don't hold to all these click non-Calvinist.

Sorry, Jonathan, your "tulip test" would just be to perpetuate a commonly held but mistaken idea of what Calvinism is.

The "Five Points of Calvinism", which gave rise (in English) to the acronym "TULIP", were a response to five Articles of Remonstrance drawn up by the disciples of Jacob Arminius. Suppose (I stress that word! ) Arminius or his followers had six points:

1. God did not create. The universe came into being by chance
2. Human reason, not God's revelation, is the way to know the truth.
3. There are many gods
4. Christ is not God
5. Ungodliness is right
6. There is no need to confess our sins to God.
​

Then Calvinism might have ended up with a CROCUS instead of a TULIP:

1. Creation of the universe by God
2. Revelation from God is necessary for us to know Him
3. One God, not many.
4. Christ is God
5. Ungodliness is wrong
6. Confession of sins to God is essential
​

OK, I know that's very contrived, and I am sure others could think of a far better illustration. But my point is that Calvinism is not defined by TULIP; that just represents the five matters under debate with the followers of Arminius.

 

[jonathan.borland]

I think that generally, though, the popular perception of Calvinism revolves around the TULIP to the extent that saying one is a Calvinist means that one thinks he is what the general perception of that term conveys.

 

[jonathan.borland]

Then when citing the survey, one may say that such and such percent of people who volunteered to take the survey consider themselves Calvinists. Nothing more, nothing less.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

I would suggest you define Calvinism better than this if you want full participation in your survey. BTW, whats your definition of Non Calvinists? Would Roman Catholics & Mormons & Jehovah's Witnesses be Non Calvinists? Also are the hate mongers who post tirades that we have been seeing on this board lately --- are they considered Non Calvinists?

 

[Greektim]

I would suggest you define Calvinism better than this if you want full participation in your survey. BTW, whats your definition of Non Calvinists? Would Roman Catholics & Mormons & Jehovah's Witnesses be Non Calvinists? Also are the hate mongers who post tirades that we have been seeing on this board lately --- are they considered Non Calvinists?

I think some people are so wary of being labeled, that they need everything minutely defined. I'm a calvie... you can mix me up with others as well. I don't mind so long as you hear me before you cast judgment on my position.

And for the non-cals (a nice way of putting it if you ask me), you know who you are. People on the BB are typically shades different from one another in the non-calvinistic persuasion. So let's not be naive and think that JWs and Mormons are a part of this poll.

It is definitely an election year... all the question dodging, fudging, and hedging is leaking down to the constituents

 

[jonathan.borland]

I would suggest you define Calvinism better than this if you want full participation in your survey. BTW, whats your definition of Non Calvinists? Would Roman Catholics & Mormons & Jehovah's Witnesses be Non Calvinists?

No, because this is a BAPTIST only forum!

IAlso are the hate mongers who post tirades that we have been seeing on this board lately --- are they considered Non Calvinists?

Calling brothers and sisters hate mongers isn't very loving, is it?

 

[seekingthetruth]

I would suggest you define Calvinism better than this if you want full participation in your survey. BTW, whats your definition of Non Calvinists? Would Roman Catholics & Mormons & Jehovah's Witnesses be Non Calvinists? Also are the hate mongers who post tirades that we have been seeing on this board lately --- are they considered Non Calvinists?

It's funny to see you calling someone else a hate monger.

FYI, I never had any ill feelings towards Calvinists until I came to the BB. Now I despise Calvinism, and you are one of the main ones that gave that attitude.

After being on the BB, a Calvinist is the last thing I would ever want to be

John

 

[mandym]

Also are the hate mongers who post tirades that we have been seeing on this board lately ---

Usually coming from the cal side.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

I think some people are so wary of being labeled, that they need everything minutely defined. I'm a calvie... you can mix me up with others as well. I don't mind so long as you hear me before you cast judgment on my position.

And for the non-cals (a nice way of putting it if you ask me), you know who you are. People on the BB are typically shades different from one another in the non-calvinistic persuasion. So let's not be naive and think that JWs and Mormons are a part of this poll.

It is definitely an election year... all the question dodging, fudging, and hedging is leaking down to the constituents

Perhaps its my nature, because I dont like being button holed & Im suspicious of anyone who tries.....primarily because there attempting to draw up sides. As a Calvie Tim, do you follow along the lines of infant baptizers? Do you feel that the true Calvie is a severe unbending legalistic minded individual? Do you hold the position that you will not fellowship with Non Calvinists, do you believe in the doctrine of reprobation, do you feel the need to carry the banner of Calvin?

Id prefer to be known as a believer in Christ that honestly attempts to know God through the Loving & Merciful nature of my Lord & Savior. I do not want to be ostracized by people who seemingly have turrets syndrome & continuously cast insults at my belief system....when they dont even understand it. Therefore I refuse to participate. Nothing in this world is black & white.:tongue3:

 

[seekingthetruth]

I think a better way to phrase the question this:

Do you consider yourself a Calvinist? Yes or No

That way the interpretation of Calvinism is left up to individual poster

John

 

[Greektim]

I think a better way to phrase the question this:

Do you consider yourself a Calvinist? Yes or No

That way the interpretation of Calvinism is left up to individual poster

John

Wouldn't that be a distinction w/out a difference? I mean there is not that much difference between "are you a calvinist" vs. "do you consider yourself a calvinist"...

Not to pick at you (although I believe a damnable doctrine according to you), just thought I would point out that there is little difference in what you are offering.

As far as I'm concerned, calvinist should not be shy about it either. It is not a bad word. In our opinion, it is extremely biblical. So why shy away from the various connotations that the label might have? That is not the issue.

 

[seekingthetruth]

Wouldn't that be a distinction w/out a difference? I mean there is not that much difference between "are you a calvinist" vs. "do you consider yourself a calvinist"...

Not to pick at you (although I believe a damnable doctrine according to you), just thought I would point out that there is little difference in what you are offering.

As far as I'm concerned, calvinist should not be shy about it either. It is not a bad word. In our opinion, it is extremely biblical. So why shy away from the various connotations that the label might have? That is not the issue.

Then why are the Calvinists looking for a clarification as to what the OP means? If you consider yourself a Calvinist then it doesnt matter what others think a Calvinist is.

John

 

[preacher4truth]

The poll is horrendously deficient.


As David Lamb states, it leaves loopholes.