According to Pastor Bobby Conway you are.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sTGKocHsXvM
Opinions, thoughts?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sTGKocHsXvM
Opinions, thoughts?
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Are you the 5th Gospel?
- Thread starter evangelist6589
- Start date
plain_n_simple
Active Member
Living Acts 29
Explain please
2Corinthians 3:2 Ye are our epistle written in our hearts, known and read of all men:
"The only ‘real’ lost gospel is the one that remains hidden in the hearts of out-of-commission believers. As believers, Great Commission-living isn’t an option, it’s a commandment." https://www.biblegateway.com/blog/2014/07/you-are-the-fifth-gospel-an-interview-with-bobby-conway/
While the title "the fifth gospel" may be a bit of a catch phrase to grab attention to an already established need, I agree with the pastor. We are called to carry the gospel (just as the "four Gospels" carry the gospel) of Jesus Christ. Too often it appears that the Body of Christ is a bit lethargic, but we are commanded bring the gospel to the world. I sometimes wonder how much others see of the gospel, of Christ, in our daily lives.
While the title "the fifth gospel" may be a bit of a catch phrase to grab attention to an already established need, I agree with the pastor. We are called to carry the gospel (just as the "four Gospels" carry the gospel) of Jesus Christ. Too often it appears that the Body of Christ is a bit lethargic, but we are commanded bring the gospel to the world. I sometimes wonder how much others see of the gospel, of Christ, in our daily lives.
You say this while you are reading Tell the truth? What would Metzger say of such a book?
I do not know Metzger, but I think that he may very well applaud the pastor's position (as outlined in the short summary available). He certainly has Scripture on his side.
Jordan had an excellent argument (and it wasn't even his...Scripture argues against your position, John):
2 Corinthians 3:2-3
2 You are our letter, written in our hearts, known and read by all men;
3 being manifested that you are a letter of Christ, cared for by us, written not with ink but with the Spirit of the living God, not on tablets of stone but on tablets of human hearts.
I think the issue that you have is the title. But we are to exhibit the gospel of Jesus Christ in our daily lives. It is not up to us, BTW, to defend Conway. You need to step your argument and refute the pastor.
Here...this is a good place to start:
"John Calvin, once said, “The gospel is not a doctrine of the tongue, but of life. It cannot be grasped by reason and memory only, but it is fully understood when it possesses the whole soul and penetrates to the inner recesses of the heart.” Calvin knew that the gospel was bigger than a tongue doctrine, that its also a life doctrine. In The Fifth Gospel, I’m stressing a desperate need for the Christian to live louder, not preach louder. That doesn’t mean the believer should put his words on pause. God forbid. As Paul declared in Romans 10:14, “How are they to believe in him of whom they have never heard?” Paul was all about presenting the gospel, but not at the expense of portraying the gospel.
We enhance our impact when our words align with our works. If we want to make a gospel impact the actions of our lives must correspond to the affirmations of our lips. It’s not either/or. It’s both audio and visual. Audio-visual Christianity provides the greatest impact for our witness. The reality is, every Christian is on stage whether they like it or not. And the world is our audience."
Are you up to the challenge?
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No Metzger would not agree. He has clearly said that God brings forth the converts to salvation in his election, and it does not matter how effective one can be given the nature of Gods election in salvation.
Turn to page 28-29 and see what Metzger says on this.
However I do agree with lifestyle evangelism only in the fact that it backs up a gospel presentation. But impact is all up to God and whom the Holy Spirit quickens in his effectual calling.
What about you? Bye the way you post and speak to me on this board I do not detect much gospel in your life.
What are you talking about???? John, you need to take a break from reading these books and get back to Scripture. Stop introducing topics that do not apply to the OP and address the issue.
Again - refute this adequate summery of the "fifth gospel's" goal NOT WITH METZGER BUT WITH SCRIPTURE. We'll address Metzger on the other thread.
"John Calvin, once said, “The gospel is not a doctrine of the tongue, but of life. It cannot be grasped by reason and memory only, but it is fully understood when it possesses the whole soul and penetrates to the inner recesses of the heart.” Calvin knew that the gospel was bigger than a tongue doctrine, that its also a life doctrine. In The Fifth Gospel, I’m stressing a desperate need for the Christian to live louder, not preach louder. That doesn’t mean the believer should put his words on pause. God forbid. As Paul declared in Romans 10:14, “How are they to believe in him of whom they have never heard?” Paul was all about presenting the gospel, but not at the expense of portraying the gospel.
We enhance our impact when our words align with our works. If we want to make a gospel impact the actions of our lives must correspond to the affirmations of our lips. It’s not either/or. It’s both audio and visual. Audio-visual Christianity provides the greatest impact for our witness. The reality is, every Christian is on stage whether they like it or not. And the world is our audience."
John C get back to scripture! Stop defending the 5th gospel and get back to scripture!! Stop quoting John calvin and get back to scripture!
Anyways I was reading a little of the book on amazon and Conway said some things that contradicted scripture as what he was saying did not match what Jesus said on how the world would respond to Christians in the Gospel of John. Yes indeed the world would hate us and this is clearly what Jesus said. Conway seems to want to make the gospel attractive and accepted by the world which is not Biblical as the world will hate us writes there apostle John. You know the passage and you know the book, but read the Gospel of John.
Also the endorsement for a Willow Creek evangelism book in Conway's book set up another flag. I have that book, do not agree with everything in it, nor would I base my evangelism theology on that book. I base it on the scripture, and I base it on those that teach the scripture best for me to understand, such as Will Metzger.
Also the endorsement for a Willow Creek evangelism book in Conway's book set up another flag. I have that book, do not agree with everything in it, nor would I base my evangelism theology on that book. I base it on the scripture, and I base it on those that teach the scripture best for me to understand, such as Will Metzger.
I was not quoting Calvin. I was quoting Conway (who was quoting Calvin in his support for Christians living sanctified lives). That was the topic...remember.
But if you insist...start by refuting these:
1 Peter 2:12
12 Keep your behavior excellent among the Gentiles, so that in the thing in which they slander you as evildoers, they may because of your good deeds, as they observe them, glorify God in the day of visitation.
2 Corinthians 3:2-3
2 You are our letter, written in our hearts, known and read by all men;
3 being manifested that you are a letter of Christ, cared for by us, written not with ink but with the Spirit of the living God, not on tablets of stone but on tablets of human hearts.
Matthew 5:14-16
14 "You are the light of the world. A city set on a hill cannot be hidden;
15 nor does anyone light a lamp and put it under a basket, but on the lampstand, and it gives light to all who are in the house.
16 "Let your light shine before men in such a way that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father who is in heaven.
Ephesians 2:10
10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them.
2 Peter 1:5-8
5 Now for this very reason also, applying all diligence, in your faith supply moral excellence, and in your moral excellence, knowledge,
6 and in your knowledge, self-control, and in your self-control, perseverance, and in your perseverance, godliness,
7 and in your godliness, brotherly kindness, and in your brotherly kindness, love.
8 For if these qualities are yours and are increasing, they render you neither useless nor unfruitful in the true knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.
2 Corinthians 4:6-10
6 For God, who said, "Light shall shine out of darkness," is the One who has shone in our hearts to give the Light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Christ.
7 But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, so that the surpassing greatness of the power will be of God and not from ourselves;
8 we are afflicted in every way, but not crushed; perplexed, but not despairing;
9 persecuted, but not forsaken; struck down, but not destroyed;
10 always carrying about in the body the dying of Jesus, so that the life of Jesus also may be manifested in our body.
Matthew 5:13-16 Ye are the salt of the earth: but if the salt have lost his savour, wherewith shall it be salted? it is thenceforth good for nothing, but to be cast out, and to be trodden under foot of men.
Ye are the light of the world. A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid.
Neither do men light a candle, and put it under a bushel, but on a candlestick; and it giveth light unto all that are in the house.
Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven.
John 13:35 By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another.
Questions: why are we to to let our light shine and do good works?
Why does Jesus care about all men knowing we are disciples?
The issue is not changing the Gospel to make it more attractive, the issue is us living a Spirit filled life and making New Life in Christ attractive to people so they are more open to listening to the Gospel.
And I know your going to keep referring to this effectual call, which I think is hogwash, The scriptures are very clear that the Holy Ghost can be resisted, there is no such things an effectual or shall we just call it what it is "Irresistible Grace" Because if that's really how people are saved, Stop preaching on the streets because it does not matter what we do, why do you even come on here and post if that's what you really believe? stop reading books on evangelism because it's all the Holy Spirit and he regenerates at his will apart from human will or effort, do you really believe what you claim? if so why all the effort to read up on evangelism if you believe in this "effectual call"
God uses Spirit filled individuals to deal with lost sinners, the best thing for someone to share the gospel is that they have a clean heart and be filled with the Spirit. The most powerful thing in the world is a Spirit filled Christian living a changed life sharing the gospel. at this point I don't even know what your on here arguing about brother. seriously what in the world is the point of this thread?
1 Thessalonians 5:19 Quench not the Spirit.
Why is it so important not to quench the Spirit if sinners will automatically get saved by an effectual call?
Heres a hint:
Acts 1:8 But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.
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Good points and passages for him to refute. BTW, I do believe in an effectual call, but that is beside the point. John MacArthur (Evan's fav) has preached sermons saying exactly what the Conway clip says. But more to the point, to deny the call for Christians to live visibly sanctified lives as a light to the world is to deny Scripture (I don't think it even a matter of interpretation...but we'll see if John can reason away those passages).