Arminian, Calvinist, Biblicist

[psalms109:31]

We're obviously not communicating very well. Have a blessed Lord's Day tomorrow.

You to, my desire is that no one turn away from Jesus, but continue to trust in Him over their own understanding. Jesus will open their eyes.


James 1 :
2 Consider it pure joy, my brothers and sisters,[The Greek word for brothers and sisters (adelphoi) refers here to believers, both men and women, as part of God’s family; also in verses 16 and 19; and in 2:1, 5, 14; 3:10, 12; 4:11; 5:7, 9, 10, 12, 19.] whenever you face trials of many kinds, 3 because you know that the testing of your faith produces perseverance. 4 Let perseverance finish its work so that you may be mature and complete, not lacking anything. 5 If any of you lacks wisdom, you should ask God, who gives generously to all without finding fault, and it will be given to you. 6 But when you ask, you must believe and not doubt, because the one who doubts is like a wave of the sea, blown and tossed by the wind. 7 That person should not expect to receive anything from the Lord.

 

[convicted1]

Arminian

Man's depravity is only partial. Man is not left in totally helpless state. His will is not affected by sin. It is still free to choose good over evil, and could repent and believe. Faith is the sinner's contribution to his salvation. His eternal destiny depends on how he uses his free will.

Calvinist

Man is a free moral agent, and his will is in bondage to his nature. He cannot change his nature. He cannot make choices contrary to his nature. He is dead in his trespasses and sins and is drawn to the god of the dead.

Biblicist

When someone is born into this world, they are two parts, inner and outer man. The outer man is conceived in sin(through union of sperm/egg), and it is created in an already fallen condition because of Adam. The soul comes from God(Ecc. 12:7) and is not in the condemned state until God imputes/accounts sin unto said soul.

Arminian

Election is based upon God's foreknowledge, which means He looked down the corridors of time and saw who would believe the gospel, and so chose those who were willing to choose Him.

Calvinist

God saw that no one would believe on his own, so He chose some before the foundation of the world, according to His own pleasure and purpose, and gives them the faith to believe.

Biblicist

God chose Israel as a whole in the OT days. Eventhough God chose them as a whole, most died and did not make it to the Promised Land, not for a lack of an atonement, but for a lack of belief. When Jesus died upon the cross, God chose the Gentiles as a whole, and those who place their faith in Christ(the whosoevers), God saves them.

Arminian

Christ's death was "sufficient" for all but "efficient" only for the ones who would believe. It had unlimited purpose but a limited power (limited by man's free will). It did not in fact secure the salvation for anyone, it only made salvation possible.

Calvinist

The intention of Christ's redeeming work was to save the elect and in fact secured salvation for them. God has a limited purpose (save the elect) and an unlimited power. Christ secured the salvation of those for whom He died.

Biblicist

Christ tasted death for every man(Hebrews 2:9), the ungodly(Romans 5:6), God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son(John 3:16), Jesus took the sin of the world(John 1:29), was/is the Scapegoat(Leviticus 16:20-22), was the Rock that Moses smote in the valley of Zin(Numbers 20).

Arminian

God wants to save everybody, but inasmuch as man is free, he can resist God's will. The Holy Spirit can draw only those that allow Him to draw them. They first have to be willing to believe.

Calvinist

The external call given to the all who hear the gospel can be and often is rejected. The internal call made by the Spirit to the elect cannot be ultimately resisted. The Spirit graciously causes the elect sinner to believe, repent, and come willingly to Christ.

Biblicist

God is not willing that anyone perish. He has no pleasure in the death of the wicked. He resists the proud, but gives grace to the humble. God wants to save everyone, but will only save those who humble themselves under His mighty hand.

Arminian

Believers who are truly saved can lose their salvation by failing to keep up their faith. As man's will is the instrument of his salvation, it can also be the instrument of his falling from grace. The Christian must persevere to the end or be lost. (Some who believe in the other points of Arminianism reject the idea of falling from grace and embrace eternal security.)

Calvinist

While the saint is preserved by God, true faith will persevere, even though it may stumble and fail. They will arise and go on in the faith. They are eternally saved.

Biblicist

When God saves, He saves them for eternity. There is no power that can seperate us from His love. He is with us all the way, even to the end of the world. Nope, we can not lose/forfeit our salvation.

 

[Michael Wrenn]

Biblicist

When someone is born into this world, they are two parts, inner and outer man. The outer man is conceived in sin(through union of sperm/egg), and it is created in an already fallen condition because of Adam. The soul comes from God(Ecc. 12:7) and is not in the condemned state until God imputes/accounts sin unto said soul.




Biblicist

God chose Israel as a whole in the OT days. Eventhough God chose them as a whole, most died and did not make it to the Promised Land, not for a lack of an atonement, but for a lack of belief. When Jesus died upon the cross, God chose the Gentiles as a whole, and those who place their faith in Christ(the whosoevers), God saves them.




Biblicist

Christ tasted death for every man(Hebrews 2:9), the ungodly(Romans 5:6), God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son(John 3:16), Jesus took the sin of the world(John 1:29), was/is the Scapegoat(Leviticus 16:20-22), was the Rock that Moses smote in the valley of Zin(Numbers 20).




Biblicist

God is not willing that anyone perish. He has no pleasure in the death of the wicked. He resists the proud, but gives grace to the humble. God wants to save everyone, but will only save those who humble themselves under His mighty hand.




Biblicist

When God saves, He saves them for eternity. There is no power that can seperate us from His love. He is with us all the way, even to the end of the world. Nope, we can not lose/forfeit our salvation.

So, do you believe we have the freedom to choose until we are born again, but after that we no longer have that freedom?

 

[convicted1]

So, do you believe we have the freedom to choose until we are born again, but after that we no longer have that freedom?

I see it like this. If we have the power/ability to save ourself, then we would have the power to unsave ourself. If we don't have the power/ability to save ourself, then we don't have the power/ability to unsave ourself.

Why would anyone want to go back into bondage after they have been set free? I remember what my life was like prior to Christ coming in and taking up His abode in my life, and I have no desire to go back there. Sure, satan tempts me, and my flesh rises up, but that sweet Spirit kicks me in the "backside", and I get back in line. Oh how sweet it is to be His!!!

 

[Luke2427]

I came across a neat little pamphlet that addresses those who call themselves Biblicists.

Now, us Calvinists and Arminians know who we are. But what of those who claim to hold to a third position? They claim to be neutral, but are they really? The pamphlet lists the Arminian and Calvinist positions and then asks the Biblicist to state his own position.

------------------------------------------------------------------------
What is a Biblicist? In the on-going controversy of the Doctrines of Grace, we constantly come across the argument, "Well, I am either a Calvinist nor an Arminian. I am a Biblicist." The person making the statement is clearly attempting to separate himself from either of the first two positions named and is alleging that he is of the third position. We can only assume that he can can see a difference between his position and the other two. But most I have talked to have had some real difficulty clarifying their position. In the hope of getting that clarification, I offer this worksheet. If you consider yourself a "Biblicist," please fill out the middle column and show your "third" view on each point.

Arminian

Man's depravity is only partial. Man is not left in totally helpless state. His will is not affected by sin. It is still free to choose good over evil, and could repent and believe. Faith is the sinner's contribution to his salvation. His eternal destiny depends on how he uses his free will.

Calvinist

Man is a free moral agent, and his will is in bondage to his nature. He cannot change his nature. He cannot make choices contrary to his nature. He is dead in his trespasses and sins and is drawn to the god of the dead.

Biblicist

[State position]


Arminian

Election is based upon God's foreknowledge, which means He looked down the corridors of time and saw who would believe the gospel, and so chose those who were willing to choose Him.

Calvinist

God saw that no one would believe on his own, so He chose some before the foundation of the world, according to His own pleasure and purpose, and gives them the faith to believe.

Biblicist

[State position]


Arminian

Christ's death was "sufficient" for all but "efficient" only for the ones who would believe. It had unlimited purpose but a limited power (limited by man's free will). It did not in fact secure the salvation for anyone, it only made salvation possible.

Calvinist

The intention of Christ's redeeming work was to save the elect and in fact secured salvation for them. God has a limited purpose (save the elect) and an unlimited power. Christ secured the salvation of those for whom He died.

Biblicist

[State position]


Arminian

God wants to save everybody, but inasmuch as man is free, he can resist God's will. The Holy Spirit can draw only those that allow Him to draw them. They first have to be willing to believe.

Calvinist

The external call given to the all who hear the gospel can be and often is rejected. The internal call made by the Spirit to the elect cannot be ultimately resisted. The Spirit graciously causes the elect sinner to believe, repent, and come willingly to Christ.

Biblicist

[State position]


Arminian

Believers who are truly saved can lose their salvation by failing to keep up their faith. As man's will is the instrument of his salvation, it can also be the instrument of his falling from grace. The Christian must persevere to the end or be lost. (Some who believe in the other points of Arminianism reject the idea of falling from grace and embrace eternal security.)

Calvinist

While the saint is preserved by God, true faith will persevere, even though it may stumble and fail. They will arise and go on in the faith. They are eternally saved.

Biblicist

[State position]

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Now, the purpose of this post isn't to pit Arminians vs. Calvinists against each other. There's enough of that. The purpose is to find out whether there really is a third position on the Doctrines of Grace.

In order to make the exercise honest the author of the pamphlet continues:



If some of you fall into the category of "Biblicist", how would you respond to the third position?

I could not agree more.

I have found, unfortunately, that terms like "biblicist" are just words that people who really have no theology of their own to present, systematize and defend hide behind.

There is a term that is worse in this respect, in my opinion. It is the term "non-calvinist".

What does that mean??? What are the doctrines of these people?

How do they work out these doctrines systematically?

I respect people like Skandelon who are not afradi to identify themselves with a particular systematic theology which BEST represents the way they understand the difficult doctrines of the faith.

I wish all of my brethren had that kind of courage, would stop trying to straddle the fence and NAME their theology so that it can be critiqued, examined, dismantled (if possible) and tested in the holy fires of godly scrutiny to see if it is gold and silver or wood, hay and stubble.

Say what you will about Calvinists and Arminians, dear brethren of nameless theologies, but at least we of both stripes have the courage to systematize and publicize ours for all to scrutinize.

 

[Van]

Hebrews 6 refutes that. So, calling this the "Biblical Position" is not justifiable.

Hebrews 6 supports the Biblical positions taken. Why not post something specific, i.e quote the "biblical position" and quote the passage from Hebrews 6 and then explain why you think the Hebrews 6 passage contradicts the "biblical position." Any empty suit can post "that's wrong!"

 

[Van]

So, do you believe we have the freedom to choose until we are born again, but after that we no longer have that freedom?

We are allowed to make autonomous decisions within the purview allowed by God. For example, as fallen men of flesh we are predisposed to sin and choose something other than God's will. We cannot choose not to be predisposed to sin.

But on the other hand, we can choose to seek God and trust in Christ. And we can choose to go "all in" for Christ, or only bet "part of our pot." It is God who decides whether our faith should be credited as righteousness or not. But if we do commit with all our heart to Christ, and God credits that faith as righteousness, God causes us to be born again from above.
And if we are, then God also protects our faith in order to keep us for our reward in heaven. So we loose our ability to put our heartfelt faith somewhere other than Christ, 1 Peter 1:3-5.

Our walk, our service to Christ is not protected and so we can engage in ineffective ministry where we build on the foundation of Christ with perishable stuff. We still get to heaven but as one escaping from a fire.

 

[psalms109:31]

I don't know what it was like back in 1689 or days way back. If men understanding was influenced by laws, being labeled a heretic and murdered for going against the church belief. That men had to do what they had to, to continue to spread the Gospel within the laws around them.

I do know that men came to America to have freedom of religion without being murdered for it.

Using Spurgeon as a biblicists would not go against the translated word like change all men to fit their doctrine, that is why I have great respect for him, he was able to preach the Gospel in those times.


"My fear is lest the reader should rest content with understanding what is to be done, and yet never do it. Better the poorest real faith actually at work, than the best ideal of it left in the region of speculation. The great matter is to believe on the Lord Jesus at once. Never mind distinctions and definitions. A hungry man eats though he does not understand the composition of his food, the anatomy of his mouth, or the process of digestion: he lives because he eats. Another far more clever person understands thoroughly the science of nutrition; but if he does not eat he will die, with all his knowledge. There are, no doubt, many at this hour in Hell who understood the doctrine of faith, but did not believe. On the other hand, not one who has trusted in the Lord Jesus has ever been cast out, though he may never have been able intelligently to define his faith. Oh dear reader, receive the Lord Jesus into your soul, and you shall live forever! "He that believeth in Him hath everlasting life.""

C. H. Spurgeon

 

[Michael Wrenn]

I see it like this. If we have the power/ability to save ourself, then we would have the power to unsave ourself. If we don't have the power/ability to save ourself, then we don't have the power/ability to unsave ourself.

Why would anyone want to go back into bondage after they have been set free? I remember what my life was like prior to Christ coming in and taking up His abode in my life, and I have no desire to go back there. Sure, satan tempts me, and my flesh rises up, but that sweet Spirit kicks me in the "backside", and I get back in line. Oh how sweet it is to be His!!!

God did not force you to believe; you had to accept or reject salvation. You have that same ability after you are saved; God does not force you to stay. To do so would be against His nature and the gift of free will that He bestowed on all His sentient creatures -- yes, even Lucifer in heaven in the beginning.

 

[Michael Wrenn]

Hebrews 6 supports the Biblical positions taken. Why not post something specific, i.e quote the "biblical position" and quote the passage from Hebrews 6 and then explain why you think the Hebrews 6 passage contradicts the "biblical position." Any empty suit can post "that's wrong!"

Since I have done that at various times on this forum, that should suffice.

 

[Michael Wrenn]

We are allowed to make autonomous decisions within the purview allowed by God. For example, as fallen men of flesh we are predisposed to sin and choose something other than God's will. We cannot choose not to be predisposed to sin.

But on the other hand, we can choose to seek God and trust in Christ. And we can choose to go "all in" for Christ, or only bet "part of our pot." It is God who decides whether our faith should be credited as righteousness or not. But if we do commit with all our heart to Christ, and God credits that faith as righteousness, God causes us to be born again from above.
And if we are, then God also protects our faith in order to keep us for our reward in heaven. So we loose our ability to put our heartfelt faith somewhere other than Christ, 1 Peter 1:3-5.

Our walk, our service to Christ is not protected and so we can engage in ineffective ministry where we build on the foundation of Christ with perishable stuff. We still get to heaven but as one escaping from a fire.

God protects out faith, as long as we continue to have faith, but he doesn't take away our freedom of will to be able to turn away from that faith. To do so would violate WHO He is and how He made us.

 

[DiamondLady]

Arminian

Man's depravity is only partial. Man is not left in totally helpless state. His will is not affected by sin. It is still free to choose good over evil, and could repent and believe. Faith is the sinner's contribution to his salvation. His eternal destiny depends on how he uses his free will.

Calvinist

Man is a free moral agent, and his will is in bondage to his nature. He cannot change his nature. He cannot make choices contrary to his nature. He is dead in his trespasses and sins and is drawn to the god of the dead.

Biblicist

[State position] My position...ALL have sinned and come short of the glory of God. Our best is as filthy rags and we can do nothing to change it in and of ourselves.


Arminian

Election is based upon God's foreknowledge, which means He looked down the corridors of time and saw who would believe the gospel, and so chose those who were willing to choose Him.

Calvinist

God saw that no one would believe on his own, so He chose some before the foundation of the world, according to His own pleasure and purpose, and gives them the faith to believe.

Biblicist

[State position] For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son that whosever believeth in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. God provided the only way to salvation, Jesus Christ. God deals with mankind and believing comes from hearing the Word of God.


Arminian

Christ's death was "sufficient" for all but "efficient" only for the ones who would believe. It had unlimited purpose but a limited power (limited by man's free will). It did not in fact secure the salvation for anyone, it only made salvation possible.

Calvinist

The intention of Christ's redeeming work was to save the elect and in fact secured salvation for them. God has a limited purpose (save the elect) and an unlimited power. Christ secured the salvation of those for whom He died.

Biblicist

[State position] "For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures" Christ Jesus died for all men, once and for everyone.


Arminian

God wants to save everybody, but inasmuch as man is free, he can resist God's will. The Holy Spirit can draw only those that allow Him to draw them. They first have to be willing to believe.

Calvinist

The external call given to the all who hear the gospel can be and often is rejected. The internal call made by the Spirit to the elect cannot be ultimately resisted. The Spirit graciously causes the elect sinner to believe, repent, and come willingly to Christ.

Biblicist

[State position] For I will not contend for ever, neither will I be always wroth: for the spirit should fail before me, and the souls which I have made. God deals with mankind, but there comes a time He will let one go who rejects him time and time again. It is a deliberate choice by mankind to reject God, that is the unpardonable sin.


Arminian

Believers who are truly saved can lose their salvation by failing to keep up their faith. As man's will is the instrument of his salvation, it can also be the instrument of his falling from grace. The Christian must persevere to the end or be lost. (Some who believe in the other points of Arminianism reject the idea of falling from grace and embrace eternal security.)

Calvinist

While the saint is preserved by God, true faith will persevere, even though it may stumble and fail. They will arise and go on in the faith. They are eternally saved.

Biblicist

[State position] "By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all. " One can not lose their salvation anymore than one can save themselves. "And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day. " Jesus promises He will never lose one He has been given. We can walk away from fellowship but never kinship.

QUOTE]

I am neither a Calvanist or an Arminian. I am a Bible-believing, Jesus-depending (I depend solely upon his blood for my salvation), God leaning (I lean upon his Grace and Mercy each day) Christian. I believe what the Bible says. As I told my children when they were in school...Answer the question given, don't try to read things into it or make it say what you want it to say. To me it's the same with Christianity. God made it so simple a child can ask Jesus into their hearts. It's grown-ups that make it hard.

 

[Michael Wrenn]

Arminian

Man's depravity is only partial. Man is not left in totally helpless state. His will is not affected by sin. It is still free to choose good over evil, and could repent and believe. Faith is the sinner's contribution to his salvation. His eternal destiny depends on how he uses his free will.

Calvinist

Man is a free moral agent, and his will is in bondage to his nature. He cannot change his nature. He cannot make choices contrary to his nature. He is dead in his trespasses and sins and is drawn to the god of the dead.

Biblicist

[State position] My position...ALL have sinned and come short of the glory of God. Our best is as filthy rags and we can do nothing to change it in and of ourselves.


Arminian

Election is based upon God's foreknowledge, which means He looked down the corridors of time and saw who would believe the gospel, and so chose those who were willing to choose Him.

Calvinist

God saw that no one would believe on his own, so He chose some before the foundation of the world, according to His own pleasure and purpose, and gives them the faith to believe.

Biblicist

[State position] For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son that whosever believeth in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. God provided the only way to salvation, Jesus Christ. God deals with mankind and believing comes from hearing the Word of God.


Arminian

Christ's death was "sufficient" for all but "efficient" only for the ones who would believe. It had unlimited purpose but a limited power (limited by man's free will). It did not in fact secure the salvation for anyone, it only made salvation possible.

Calvinist

The intention of Christ's redeeming work was to save the elect and in fact secured salvation for them. God has a limited purpose (save the elect) and an unlimited power. Christ secured the salvation of those for whom He died.

Biblicist

[State position] "For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures" Christ Jesus died for all men, once and for everyone.


Arminian

God wants to save everybody, but inasmuch as man is free, he can resist God's will. The Holy Spirit can draw only those that allow Him to draw them. They first have to be willing to believe.

Calvinist

The external call given to the all who hear the gospel can be and often is rejected. The internal call made by the Spirit to the elect cannot be ultimately resisted. The Spirit graciously causes the elect sinner to believe, repent, and come willingly to Christ.

Biblicist

[State position] For I will not contend for ever, neither will I be always wroth: for the spirit should fail before me, and the souls which I have made. God deals with mankind, but there comes a time He will let one go who rejects him time and time again. It is a deliberate choice by mankind to reject God, that is the unpardonable sin.


Arminian

Believers who are truly saved can lose their salvation by failing to keep up their faith. As man's will is the instrument of his salvation, it can also be the instrument of his falling from grace. The Christian must persevere to the end or be lost. (Some who believe in the other points of Arminianism reject the idea of falling from grace and embrace eternal security.)

Calvinist

While the saint is preserved by God, true faith will persevere, even though it may stumble and fail. They will arise and go on in the faith. They are eternally saved.

Biblicist

[State position] "By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all. " One can not lose their salvation anymore than one can save themselves. "And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day. " Jesus promises He will never lose one He has been given. We can walk away from fellowship but never kinship.

QUOTE]

I am neither a Calvanist or an Arminian. I am a Bible-believing, Jesus-depending (I depend solely upon his blood for my salvation), God leaning (I lean upon his Grace and Mercy each day) Christian. I believe what the Bible says. As I told my children when they were in school...Answer the question given, don't try to read things into it or make it say what you want it to say. To me it's the same with Christianity. God made it so simple a child can ask Jesus into their hearts. It's grown-ups that make it hard.

Yes, indeed; so true!

 

[Herald]

I've been reading the various responses with much interest. I understand why people are adverse to calling themselves Arminian or Calvinist. It's actually not necessary to put a label on yourself, although how you answered does say a lot about what you believe. When it comes to soteriology (the study of salvation) either you believe man cooperates with God or you don't. Depravity is either complete (Calvinist position) or not complete (Arminian position). Election falls into one or two camps. Either God chose His elect, in eternity past, not based on their future choice or He did choose those who would choose Him. There really is no third position. I can go on but this exercise worked the way I thought it would. And notice that I'm not casting stones. I am not arguing for or against either position. I'll save that for other threads.

About labels in general; I think they are helpful. If you are in a new town and looking for a Baptist church to join, would it not be beneficial if you know what each church believed? Even if you don't want a label placed on you, the individual, you would probably use a label to define the churches you visit in the new town: free will Baptist, Reformed Baptist, Southern Baptist, KJV only Baptist, fundamentalist Baptist, Landmark Baptist, Missionary Baptist etc. Given the regular Calvinist-Arminian debates on this board you may narrow down you labels to two: Calvinist or Free will.

I guess my point is that no one is really a true independent Biblicist. By answering the questions in this exercise you probably gravitate to a specific theological position even if you decide not to identify yourself with that position.

 

[Van]

Since I have done that at various times on this forum, that should suffice.

I certainly agree, and my analysis of Hebrews 6 and 10 certainly will suffice to demonstrate the Biblical positions are consistent with all scripture.

 

[Van]

God protects out faith, as long as we continue to have faith, but he doesn't take away our freedom of will to be able to turn away from that faith. To do so would violate WHO He is and how He made us.

I will take God at His word, 1 Peter 1:3-5 says "3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to His great mercy has caused us to be born again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, 4 to obtain an inheritance which is imperishable and undefiled and will not fade away, reserved in heaven for you, 5 who are protected by the power of God through faith for a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time."

 

[Van]

I've been reading the various responses with much interest. I understand why people are adverse to calling themselves Arminian or Calvinist. It's actually not necessary to put a label on yourself, although how you answered does say a lot about what you believe. When it comes to soteriology (the study of salvation) either you believe man cooperates with God or you don't. Depravity is either complete (Calvinist position) or not complete (Arminian position). Election falls into one or two camps. Either God chose His elect, in eternity past, not based on their future choice or He did choose those who would choose Him. There really is no third position. I can go on but this exercise worked the way I thought it would. And notice that I'm not casting stones. I am not arguing for or against either position. I'll save that for other threads.

About labels in general; I think they are helpful. If you are in a new town and looking for a Baptist church to join, would it not be beneficial if you know what each church believed? Even if you don't want a label placed on you, the individual, you would probably use a label to define the churches you visit in the new town: free will Baptist, Reformed Baptist, Southern Baptist, KJV only Baptist, fundamentalist Baptist, Landmark Baptist, Missionary Baptist etc. Given the regular Calvinist-Arminian debates on this board you may narrow down you labels to two: Calvinist or Free will.

I guess my point is that no one is really a true independent Biblicist. By answering the questions in this exercise you probably gravitate to a specific theological position even if you decide not to identify yourself with that position.

The Calvinist claims only two positions exist. However, since some Arminians agree with the idea of total spiritual inability due to the fall, but say God then overrides that and gives folks enough spiritual ability to seek God and trust in Christ, the classic view of prevenient grace, he leaves out the position that the fall did not result in total spiritual inability. So three positions.

And again, the Calvinist only sees individual election before the foundation of the world and is blind to the view that the election before the foundation of the world was corporate and that our individual election for salvation occurs during our lifetime.

The reality is that both Calvinism and Arminianism are unbiblical and are based on shoddy bible study.

 

[DiamondLady]

I've been reading the various responses with much interest. I understand why people are adverse to calling themselves Arminian or Calvinist. It's actually not necessary to put a label on yourself, although how you answered does say a lot about what you believe. When it comes to soteriology (the study of salvation) either you believe man cooperates with God or you don't.
Hark, Herald....I disagree with this. I believe man RESPONDS to God's call. Cooperation isn't always involved. God can be an irresistible force for some people. Others are so hardened responding is difficult, and at times impossible. Sometimes God has to put a Mack truck in their way to get their attention.

About labels in general; I think they are helpful. If you are in a new town and looking for a Baptist church to join, would it not be beneficial if you know what each church believed? I don't need a label. I can tell within ten minutes what a church believes by what songs they sing, how they conduct their worship services, what Bible they use, etc. Sometimes I can tell just by reading their bulletin/program. I can certainly tell, in any church, by listening to one sermon. Sometimes a church doesn't fit the label on their sign at all....false advertising you know


I guess my point is that no one is really a true independent Biblicist. By answering the questions in this exercise you probably gravitate to a specific theological position even if you decide not to identify yourself with that position.

My belief is that the two positions are, not only wrong in many doctrinal ways, but limit God and His power. God is not an If A then B person. God is ever changing, all powerful, all knowing, ...beyond what we can imagine or hope for. Man limits God by placing a label on themselves or Him. I promise everyone here, God is neither a Calvinist, an Arminian, or a Biblicist...HE IS GOD.

 

[Herald]

My belief is that the two positions are, not only wrong in many doctrinal ways, but limit God and His power. God is not an If A then B person. God is ever changing...

Dear lady, our God is not "ever changing."

Hebrews 13:8 Jesus Christ is the same yesterday and today and forever.

Malachi 3:6 "For I, the LORD, do not change; therefore you, O sons of Jacob, are not consumed."

The Lord is immutable. He cannot change. The very thought of God changing would diminish His deity. He is perfect in His entire being. He has no need to change, nor does He change His ways.

 

[DiamondLady]

Dear lady, our God is not "ever changing."

Hebrews 13:8 Jesus Christ is the same yesterday and today and forever.

Malachi 3:6 "For I, the LORD, do not change; therefore you, O sons of Jacob, are not consumed."

The Lord is immutable. He cannot change. The very thought of God changing would diminish His deity. He is perfect in His entire being. He has no need to change, nor does He change His ways.

When I say He is ever changing I meant that He changes how He deals or calls if you will each person. God's nature never changes but how deals with each person changes according to the need. (If there are errors in spelling etc forgive me...my first post from my kindle)