Featured Arminian, Calvinist, Biblicist

Hi Luke2427, I have a theology based on the Word of God. I support every point from scripture. But rather than defend Calvinism you argue that your view has been held by more people for a long time. Twaddle.

I have posted specific positions on Limited Spiritual Ability, Conditional Election for Salvation during our lifetime, General Reconciliation based on Christ dying for all mankind, Resistible and Irresistible Grace, and OASIS eternal security. Feel free to show me from scripture where my views miss the mark.

 

Apparently I have failed, you should be a Christian, following God's word. I hold views that I think fit with all scripture, and therefore if I have missed the mark, I post them and ask my fellow brothers and sisters to present where my view does not fit with scripture. Be a Berean Christian.

 

No, that's not all I got, but it was the most germane to the point I wanted to make -- and still is. What you might use as an example in the physical realm does not hold up in the spiritual.

 

You should say, according to your interpretation of scripture. My interpretation is just as valid, and even more so because I have dealt with an essential part of Who God is.

God never takes away a person's freedom to choose. Lucifer, being in a "perfect" state in heaven, had the freedom to reject his station and God; God did not "keep him by his power", did not force him to stay loyal -- indeed He could not because of Who God is.

Humans have the freedom and ability to accept or reject God's offer of salvation, and if they accept the offer, they retain the freedom and ability to reject it later. God does not perform a spiritual lobotomy on them and take away their free will.

This truth is borne out by scripture, as I have pointed out, and is deeply embedded in the nature and character of God.

 

Why not address the scriptural evidence I provided? I am not saying God always uses His power to restrict our choices to the ones He desires, clearly He does not. But sometimes, i.e. Romans 11, He does.

Next you claim my view of God hardening the hearts of some unbelieving Jews, restricts their choices such that they would not accept the gospel, is my own and your unstated view is just as valid. Twaddle.

My view is based on 1 Peter 1:3-5, and you have no scripture to support yours, even though you say it is "borne out by scripture." I could say the view that God put invisible pink elephants in orbit around Mars is borne out by scripture. Claims without specific references are without merit.

My view is "embedded in the character of God" because God described His behavior in scripture. He protects those born again through faith. He hardens hearts for His purpose.

 

I have already given you scriptural support which you have no valid answer for, so you twist and contort and squirm to try and get around it or make it say something it doesn't. Don't make me post that Chubby Checker video that I've had to post before for those whose favorite dance is "The Twist".

As I said, I have posted more scriptural evidence in other threads; I'll not rehash that here.

Continue now with your insults; I expect it.

There are many things I'm uncertain about, but this is not one of them. I know beyond doubt that my view is correct.

 

That's not true. God is no where near as obsessed with creature-freedom as many creatures are.

The Bible does not teach this mythical freedom. Free Will Baptists and the like ASSUME that because God says in a few places to "choose" something that that means that God wants all people completely free at all times.

The saints in heaven are not "free" to turn from God. Sinners on earth are not "free" to turn to God at any time in their lives.

Christians are not "free" to turn away from God into apostasy either.

The Bible emphasizes the freedom of the Creator- not the freedom of the creature.

 

It is true. The Bible teaches it. It was true from the beginning with Adam and Eve; it was true in heaven before Adam and Eve, and it is still true. Nowhere does scripture say that God has taken away this freedom that He bestowed on His sentient beings. He couldn't take it away because that would be contradicting Who He is -- God cannot cease to be God.

 

Capacity of volition isn't really the issue for Calvinism. It is the fact that said capacity is marred by sin and bends all volitional issues towards sin, self, or the satan. The depravity of man says man cannot choose God primarily because man will never nor would never choose God in his depraved state. He still has the capacity of volition. But it is a hellbent capacity.

 

On the one side we have those who claim God does not at times override our opportunity to choose, when He hardens hearts, which is simply denial of scripture. But then this is countered on the other side with the claim all our decisions are overridden by our "hardened by the fall heart." Neither view is biblical. Sometimes God overrides our ability to choose when He hardens the hearts of those who could otherwise seek God and trust in Christ. How so obvious a truth, presenting in passage after passage could be denied by virtually every single poster on this thread boggles the mind.

 

Well, since your mind is boggled, there is no need in discussing it further.

You continue to believe as you do, I'll do the same, and I'll meet you at the end of the journey. Godspeed!

 

Why do you use the words 'bend' and 'towards' in such a relation? When I hear that, and I would think when any normal person hears that, they understand something else than what that sentence means. I do not see how in any way a calvinist could genuinely claim as truth that sin simply ''bends volitional issues towards sin''. That is Arminian talk for sure.

 

Another way people can harden their own hearts and lose the ability to grow is by the practice of sin, i.e. not laying aside fleshy behavior. We have limited ability to discern spiritual things, i.e. the milk of the gospel, but even that can be taken away, according to scripture. Calvinism has everything taken away at birth, the opposite of the truth presented in scripture. Consider the carnal Christians stuck in the starting gate.

 

Both Arminianism and Calvinism deviate from scripture as indicated below: