Arminian Myths

[John of Japan]

JoJ, Germany lost WW2 because they were fighting wars on too many fronts. It's the same thing with me. My posts have been haphazardly put together, havn't had time to research facts and the like, and I have been debating in atleast three threads, not able to give sufficient time to either of them. I see no point to continue with the debating, since I already know each of these issues will come down to Calvinism v Arminianism.

Let me pose this question : Does how I live my life have any affect upon God's bringing his elect to saving faith? Is peoples salvation contingent upon how I exemplify Christ?

Now, let's watch were this goes. :thumbs:

In answer to your question about the verse, that verse can be interpreted two ways.

1) The wifes godly conduct somehow impacts his decision to convert
or
2) The wife is able to share the Gospel with him.
I don't really know which way to interpret it. The verse seems to be saying #1, but that would go against my understanding of regeneration, that is people are dead in sins, then quickened when exposed to Gospel preaching.

What you need to do is let the Bible shape your theology, not interpret the Bible through the lens of your theology. I trust someday soon you'll attend a good Bible college and take courses in hermeneutics and exegesis and Greek and Hebrew. Then maybe you'll get over this tendency.

There is really no other way to interpret the passage other than your (1) above. It specifically says, "without the word." Now interpreting Scripture with Scripture, we know that no one is saved without the Gospel. However, it is very clear from this passage that our lives influence people towards or away from Christ. To deny this is to deny the plain sense of Scripture.

JoJ, it really is not an issue of backing out of something I started. I am just seeing that this is going to, absolutley will, come down to an issue in theology. It is the same with Church Growth methodology, or easy believism. I've seen those threads, and I've seen articles on them, and I know that it always comes down to a Calvinist v Non-Calvinist battle.

It is a characteristic of youth that they think they have all the answers. I was the same way 35 years ago, of course.

Frankly, though, you need to admit that your ignorance of theology is great. I asked you to show me how Arminian theology produces lifestyle evangelism. You haven't. You won't be able to, but go ahead and try. If you don't even try I will continue to think you have backed out of something you started.

Now to be honest, I don't participate in the C/A debates, and I won't here. But I will go so far as to debate with you the source of LE practice without discussing the right and wrong per se of C or A. I gave you a quote on my side from well known Calvinist J. I. Packer. I double dog dare you to produce any quotes on your side from a genuine Calvinist theologian on how Arminianism produces LE.

It's very easy to give opinions and then say you won't go any further because you know how the discussion will turn out. But that's not debate.

Hoping for a mature answer.... :type:

 

[Nicholas25]

This subject never ends, and some have a strong desire to continuously "bash" the one who believes the opposite way.

 

[just-want-peace]

Heaven help ANY person who becomes the recepient of youthful vigor/beliefs that may be wrong, but never questioned!

I speak with authority because I used to fit this catagory!

I'm knocking on the door of 71, but can remember some of my "unquestioned beliefs" from my "know-it-all" youth.

To all: Be patient with this enthusiastic youth, and with some deftly applied HS correction he'll be a powerful Christian one day; after eating a little "humble pie" of course.

To christianyouth: Hang in there m'friend. Many will be more than happy to lock horns with you, and one day you'll find the one that make you feel like an infant as he shows you your lack of comprehension of God's Word. As solomon said, learn from such an exchange, and thereby develop wisdom.

For posterity's sake you should keep a copy of this thread and read it after you have, say, 25-30 more years under your belt! Bet you will be truly amazed and thankful!

 

[christianyouth]

Heaven help ANY person who becomes the recepient of youthful vigor/beliefs that may be wrong, but never questioned!

I speak with authority because I used to fit this catagory!

I'm knocking on the door of 71, but can remember some of my "unquestioned beliefs" from my "know-it-all" youth.

To all: Be patient with this enthusiastic youth, and with some deftly applied HS correction he'll be a powerful Christian one day; after eating a little "humble pie" of course.

To christianyouth: Hang in there m'friend. Many will be more than happy to lock horns with you, and one day you'll find the one that make you feel like an infant as he shows you your lack of comprehension of God's Word. As solomon said, learn from such an exchange, and thereby develop wisdom.

For posterity's sake you should keep a copy of this thread and read it after you have, say, 25-30 more years under your belt! Bet you will be truly amazed and thankful!

I think I'm gonna take this advice. I feel like I am in over my head here, I have showed very ungodly fruits in the past 3 weeks on this board. I have made accusations, condemned everyone who is not a Calvinist, and basically made a fool out of myself. I have treated people who believe differently than me as enemies, and for this I am sorry.

Preachingjesus, I apologize for my rude conduct. I am sorry for speaking on issues that I am not educated on. I thought I had a lot more knowledge than I really did when I started these threads and began to malign all free-willers. I should not have made a personal judgement about your doctrinal beliefs, and definitely should not have made such a comment as , "you have NO understanding of conversion." I thank you for staying good humored through this ordeal, and not taking the comments of an uneducated youth too seriously.

John Of Japan, I am so grateful for you. You have kept me in line, and called out my bold claims. When I began making dogmatic assertions, there you were, to question them. And what happened? Turns out they were assumptions that were unfounded. Thanks for the patience that you have shown towards me.

After this whole thing, I see that I do not have the mental or emotional maturity to post on this board. I hope that in the next couple months, a more humble and sweet spirited 'Christian Youth' will emerge.

 

[John of Japan]

I think I'm gonna take this advice. I feel like I am in over my head here, I have showed very ungodly fruits in the past 3 weeks on this board. I have made accusations, condemned everyone who is not a Calvinist, and basically made a fool out of myself. I have treated people who believe differently than me as enemies, and for this I am sorry.

Preachingjesus, I apologize for my rude conduct. I am sorry for speaking on issues that I am not educated on. I thought I had a lot more knowledge than I really did when I started these threads and began to malign all free-willers. I should not have made a personal judgement about your doctrinal beliefs, and definitely should not have made such a comment as , "you have NO understanding of conversion." I thank you for staying good humored through this ordeal, and not taking the comments of an uneducated youth too seriously.

John Of Japan, I am so grateful for you. You have kept me in line, and called out my bold claims. When I began making dogmatic assertions, there you were, to question them. And what happened? Turns out they were assumptions that were unfounded. Thanks for the patience that you have shown towards me.

After this whole thing, I see that I do not have the mental or emotional maturity to post on this board. I hope that in the next couple months, a more humble and sweet spirited 'Christian Youth' will emerge.

Humbly and well said, Christian Youth! God bless you. :wavey: :thumbs:

 

[ReformedBaptist]

I think I'm gonna take this advice. I feel like I am in over my head here, I have showed very ungodly fruits in the past 3 weeks on this board. I have made accusations, condemned everyone who is not a Calvinist, and basically made a fool out of myself. I have treated people who believe differently than me as enemies, and for this I am sorry.

Preachingjesus, I apologize for my rude conduct. I am sorry for speaking on issues that I am not educated on. I thought I had a lot more knowledge than I really did when I started these threads and began to malign all free-willers. I should not have made a personal judgement about your doctrinal beliefs, and definitely should not have made such a comment as , "you have NO understanding of conversion." I thank you for staying good humored through this ordeal, and not taking the comments of an uneducated youth too seriously.

John Of Japan, I am so grateful for you. You have kept me in line, and called out my bold claims. When I began making dogmatic assertions, there you were, to question them. And what happened? Turns out they were assumptions that were unfounded. Thanks for the patience that you have shown towards me.

After this whole thing, I see that I do not have the mental or emotional maturity to post on this board. I hope that in the next couple months, a more humble and sweet spirited 'Christian Youth' will emerge.

Amen brother. You are on the right track doctrinally. You might be called of God someday to lead. I notice that God's emphasis for leaders is maturity, and there are areas where we all need to mature, whether at 18, 34 (me) or 71. May our Lord Jesus continue His work in us making us like Jesus. Whenever you have a chance, read Whitefield's reply to Wesley. I think you will find in it a great example of godliness in controversy.

 

[JustChristian]

Amen brother. You are on the right track doctrinally. You might be called of God someday to lead. I notice that God's emphasis for leaders is maturity, and there are areas where we all need to mature, whether at 18, 34 (me) or 71. May our Lord Jesus continue His work in us making us like Jesus. Whenever you have a chance, read Whitefield's reply to Wesley. I think you will find in it a great example of godliness in controversy.

Ye must be born again. Biblical of course.

 

[JustChristian]

Amen brother. You are on the right track doctrinally. You might be called of God someday to lead. I notice that God's emphasis for leaders is maturity, and there are areas where we all need to mature, whether at 18, 34 (me) or 71. May our Lord Jesus continue His work in us making us like Jesus. Whenever you have a chance, read Whitefield's reply to Wesley. I think you will find in it a great example of godliness in controversy.

God has already called me to lead (as a layman). I've served as a Deacon for 7 years, an adult Sunday School teacher for 7 years, a member of two pastoral search committees, a member of the choir, and a lay preacher primarily at retirement homes but also in churches (25 sermons).

 

[webdog]

God has already called me to lead (as a layman). I've served as a Deacon for 7 years, an adult Sunday School teacher for 7 years, a member of two pastoral search committees, a member of the choir, and a lay preacher primarily at retirement homes but also in churches (25 sermons).

I believe his post was for christianyouth...

 

[AAA]

Lifestyle Evangelism - The idea that by somehow living a life that is full of good fruit you will lead people to salvation.

Easy Believism - That it is possible to have belief without repentance. Most Arminians read 10% of the Scriptures and allow that 10% to usurp the other 90% in terms of importance. Certain Scripture verses such as Romans 10:8,9 are viewed as the greatest verses on soul winning, when in fact they are often extracted from their context and used to promote false evangelism. Romans 10 speaks of belief and a calling out for help, while we see the majority of preaching done in Acts including calls to repentance. So instead of siding with Acts and actual demonstrations of Gospel preaching, Arminians pick a select few verses that do not include Repentance and reduce the Gospel to giving intellectual assent to Christ's diety.

Church Growth Methodology - In the last years Churches have underwent a pretty radical makeover. Through different studies, pastors now have access to demographics that tell them things they need to do to build big churches. Contemporary worship is in, God honoring hymns are out. Preaching about sin in a generic fashion is in, while preaching specifically against certain sins that afflict Christians is out. Big choirs, nice seats, good lighting, this is how to build a big church. The great majority of Arminian churches have adopted this.

These are just three symptoms of the disease of Arminianism.

Does anyone else care to share some symptoms that they have encountered?

Arminian Myths:

Thier works plus the GRACE of GOD merits them to be saved.
1. We decide if we are going to be saved or not, and the weak god of this creation has to go along what ever we decide...Man has to set the condition of faith to obtain salvation and by having done the WORK they shall be saved...

The GOD of the bible is NOT soverign, but we are co-equal in power with HIM......

The Biblical response to thier false gosple of "grace plus our works earn our salvation".

1. BUT, the bible says that GOD elects HIS chosen to be saved before the foundation of the earth, and HE does all the works of salvation in us.

It is not to them that wills to be saved that shall be saved, but they are saved because GOD has saved them by HIS GRACE and the calling of the chosen by election....

EPH. 2:8-9 and Titus 3:5...We can NOT save ourselves, salvation is by GRACE...

 

[AAA]

The amish has said that to me.....

 

[ReformedBaptist]

Arminian Myths:

Thier works plus the GRACE of GOD merits them to be saved.
1. We decide if we are going to be saved or not, and the weak god of this creation has to go along what ever we decide...Man has to set the condition of faith to obtain salvation and by having done the WORK they shall be saved...

The GOD of the bible is NOT soverign, but we are co-equal in power with HIM......

The Biblical response to thier false gosple of "grace plus our works earn our salvation".

1. BUT, the bible says that GOD elects HIS chosen to be saved before the foundation of the earth, and HE does all the works of salvation in us.

It is not to them that wills to be saved that shall be saved, but they are saved because GOD has saved them by HIS GRACE and the calling of the chosen by election....

EPH. 2:8-9 and Titus 3:5...We can NOT save ourselves, salvation is by GRACE...

I think most "Evangelical Arminians" would agree with what you wrote that salvation is by grace. Of course, God doesn't believe for us right?

 

[AAA]

KABLAAM! False assumption #2....who on this board has said that?

This is the way that many people live that profess Christ. Everyone is NOT a true convert....

 

[JustChristian]

Arminian Myths:

Thier works plus the GRACE of GOD merits them to be saved.
1. We decide if we are going to be saved or not, and the weak god of this creation has to go along what ever we decide...Man has to set the condition of faith to obtain salvation and by having done the WORK they shall be saved...

The GOD of the bible is NOT soverign, but we are co-equal in power with HIM......

The Biblical response to thier false gosple of "grace plus our works earn our salvation".

1. BUT, the bible says that GOD elects HIS chosen to be saved before the foundation of the earth, and HE does all the works of salvation in us.

It is not to them that wills to be saved that shall be saved, but they are saved because GOD has saved them by HIS GRACE and the calling of the chosen by election....

EPH. 2:8-9 and Titus 3:5...We can NOT save ourselves, salvation is by GRACE...

These are some unusual ideas. Where did you get them from?