Arminianism & Calvinism issue to split over?

[Dave G]

He gave us free will.Thids allowe us to sin in the first place. He wants us to obey Him in that free will. Our choice not a robot decision.
why would a choice be made to elect when all souls are His?

Sin darkened our natures...we choose to sin and love it ( Romans 1:18-32 ).
God doesn't make robots ( Romans 2:1-11 ).
Man hates Jesus Christ and will not come to Him because we love our sin, and hate Him for commanding our repentance ( John 3:19-20 )

Election is a fact of Scripture ( Romans 8:29-30, Ephesians 1:4-5, 2 Thessalonians 2:13-14, Psalm 65:4 )

I am sure you will agree Salvation is a choice to be made by the sinner in free will.

With respect, no, I'm afraid I don't, and I abandoned that way of thinking over 15 years ago when God started showing me the details of how and why He saved me. To me, Scripture very clearly teaches that He changed my heart ( the seat of my spiritual desires and affections ) at 12 years old, and changed my will towards Him in the process. Out of that changed will, I then chose to believe His words and follow His Son.

But it wasn't always clear to me, and nothing was done against my will except for my desires to be changed. In other words, my sin nature was changed and my will then followed suit.




May God bless you sir.

 

[TCassidy]

Limited atonement is an insult to the death of Jesus and the power of God.

So you believe everybody will be saved?

 

[TCassidy]

unconditional election contradicts God does not have favorites in salvation

So you believe there is something about you that merits salvation without the sacrifice of Christ? What condition of perfection do you think you met?

 

[TCassidy]

Salvation is a choice to be made by the sinner in free will.

If a lost man is free from sin so he can choose to be saved can the saved man be free from the Love of Christ so he is free to reject his salvation and be lost?

 

[The Archangel]

He gave us free will.Thids allowe us to sin in the first place. He wants us to obey Him in that free will. Our choice not a robot decision.
why would a choice be made to elect when all souls are His?

Almost no Calvinist I know argues for a "robotic decision." The way I describe it is that God makes the unwilling willing.

why would a choice be made to elect when all souls are His?

You have a real problem here... What do you do with the passage in which Jesus says to the Pharisees, "You are of your father, the devil."

The Archangel

 

[TCassidy]

I do not know if you are just testing me or not because I can't believe you agree with predestination with your training

I have no choice but to believe it. The bible teaches it.

 

[loDebar]

Sin darkened our natures...we choose to sin and love it ( Romans 1:18-32 ).
God doesn't make robots ( Romans 2:1-11 ).
Man hates Jesus Christ and will not come to Him because we love our sin, and hate Him for commanding our repentance ( John 3:19-20 )

Election is a fact of Scripture ( Romans 8:29-30, Ephesians 1:4-5, 2 Thessalonians 2:13-14, Psalm 65:4 )



With respect, no, I'm afraid I don't, and I abandoned that way of thinking over 15 years ago when God started showing me the details of how and why He saved me.

May God bless you sir.

If God doesn't want robots why would he elect us without our input?
The Holy Spirit draws (convicts) us to Jesus for salvation which leads us to God.
Those you think are elected to salvation are already saved and chosen for service.

I think this whole Calvin thing is intended to minimize importance of the Holy Spirit.

 

[McCree79]

He gave us free will.Thids allowe us to sin in the first place. He wants us to obey Him in that free will. Our choice not a robot decision.
why would a choice be made to elect when all souls are His?

That is not what Calvinism teaches.

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[loDebar]

So you believe everybody will be saved?

no, you do not either. but Jesus death covered all SIN.

 

[TCassidy]

no, you do not either. but Jesus death covered all SIN.

If all sin is paid for how could anyone go to hell? Isn't hell, the second death, the price of sin?

 

[loDebar]

That is not what Calvism teaches.

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sure he did, that is what TUILP means . Election and thus salvation is not a choice of the sinner.

 

[loDebar]

If all sin is paid for how could anyone go to hell? Isn't hell, the second death, the price of sin?

free will of the sinner to decide. The parable of the sower is a good example. The Gospel is spread some hearts received it some not.

 

[TCassidy]

sure he did, that is what TUILP means . Election and thus salvation is not a choice of the sinner.

Not only don't you know what Particular Redemption teaches, you can't even spell TULIP! LOL!

 

[TCassidy]

free will of the sinner to decide. The parable of the sower is a good example. The Gospel is spread some hearts received it some not.

Why won't you answer my question? If Christ atoned (paid for) all sin, then all sin is paid for so how could anyone go to hell? Isn't hell, the second death, the price of sin?

 

[McCree79]

why would a choice be made to elect when all souls are His?

I could just say "Why would he need us to choose Him if our souls is already His???" This statement makes no sense.




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[Dave G]

Ok, gents, it seems we're getting out of control.

Rapid-fire posts are not getting anyone anywhere, IMO.

 

[loDebar]

Not only don't you know what Particular Redemption teaches, you can't even spell TULIP! LOL!

yep I swapped limited atonement and irresistible grace.

 

[McCree79]

sure he did, that is what TUILP means . Election and thus salvation is not a choice of the sinner.

That is not what you said. You claimed it teaches we are robots. Irresistable grace just changes our inclination. We choose God out of desire ......desire He has given us.

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[loDebar]

I could just say "Why would he need us to choose Him if our souls is already His???" This statement makes no sense.




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Eze 18:4

Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die.

Why have have Jesus die if God chooses the elect?

 

[McCree79]

free will of the sinner to decide. The parable of the sower is a good example. The Gospel is spread some hearts received it some not.

The scope of preaching is not the same as the scope of atonement. It was the gospel rejected, not the atonement.

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[McCree79]

Eze 18:4

Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die.

Why have have Jesus die if God chooses the elect?

Again, ask you self....if all souls are His, why do you have to choose to be His???

You are walking towards universalism here.

Does anyone go to Hell?

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