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Arminianisms

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StraightAndNarrow

Active Member
Originally posted by Calvibaptist:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by StraightAndNarrow:
No. I'm suggesting that "whosoever" in John 3:16 means that all have the opportunity to accept Christ as their Savior not just the elect.
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Well, here's where knowing Greek helps a little. I wish the the English versions had done a little better job. The Greek phrase is pas ho pisteuon. "Pas" means "all". ho pisteuon means "the believing ones" or "the ones who believe." Therefore, the meaning of the text is "all the believing ones." Again, it does not support either Calvinism or Arminianism, or any view in between. It merely tells what those who believe (all of them) receive - everlasting life. There is nothing in this whole passage about a universal offer of salvation. There is nothing in this passage about salvation only for the elect either. We have to turn elsewhere to get those doctrines.

Young's Literal Translation is "that everyone who is believing in him may not perish." This is accurate. "Whosoever" meaning universal offer is not found in this passage. </font>[/QUOTE]With all the sources available on the inter (like my favorite www.blueletterbible.org) you really don't have to take Greek because Lexicons / Concordances are easily accessible. Actually, you make a point that I neglected. The form of the verb for "believeth" in John 3:16 is:

5723 Tense - Present See 5774
Voice - Active See 5784
Mood - Participle See 5796

This means that only "everyone who is believing in him may not perish" as you posted from Young's Literal Translation. This is the same as saying "everyone who continues to believe." This supports my opposition to perseverence of the saints. If you once believed but no longer believe you are no longer saved.
 
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Me4Him

New Member
Originally posted by Calvibaptist:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by StraightAndNarrow:
No. I'm suggesting that "whosoever" in John 3:16 means that all have the opportunity to accept Christ as their Savior not just the elect.
Click to expand...
Well, here's where knowing Greek helps a little. I wish the the English versions had done a little better job. The Greek phrase is pas ho pisteuon. "Pas" means "all". ho pisteuon means "the believing ones" or "the ones who believe." Therefore, the meaning of the text is "all the believing ones." Again, it does not support either Calvinism or Arminianism, or any view in between. It merely tells what those who believe (all of them) receive - everlasting life. There is nothing in this whole passage about a universal offer of salvation. There is nothing in this passage about salvation only for the elect either. We have to turn elsewhere to get those doctrines.

Young's Literal Translation is "that everyone who is believing in him may not perish." This is accurate. "Whosoever" meaning universal offer is not found in this passage. </font>[/QUOTE]Most doctrine can't be found on the "same pages", as Scriptures say, "Here a little, there a little".

But Jo 3:16-19 explains what God/Jesus mission was in coming to the earth, and it also explain "WHY" the total objective wasn't acheived.

1. Joh 3:16 For God so loved the world,

2. Joh 3:17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world;

3. but that the world through him might be saved.

4. 1Jo 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

5. Ro 5:18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.


Here's Why the objective wasn't acheived.

1. Joh 3:19 And this is the condemnation,

2. that light is come into the world,

3. and men loved darkness rather than light,

In Judgement, God can't charge us with being sinners, because we're all guilty, but suppose the charge wasn't for being a sinner, but remaining a sinner after it was made possible for the wages of their sins to be paid, "IF" they believed in Jesus.

In Court, if you're guilty of the charge, justice demands equal punishment, we're all sinners, that why scripture says they aren't condemned for being sinners but "UNBELIEVERS".

Joh 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

The "Condemnation charge " is not because of sin, predestination, or anything else, but "BECAUSE" of "unbelief".

In dying for the sins of the whole world, Jesus not only "Justified" the salvation of "believers",

he also "justified" the condemnation of those who rejected that salvation through unbelief.

"JUSTICE" demands a "pardon" be offer to everyone, and if they refuse it, then their blood is on their own hands, not God's.

Jesus only "knocks" at the door, he doesn't "kick it down".
 
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