Arminians That I Admire

[Pipedude]

It is my sincere hope you have a visitation from St. Booglywoogly, and he convinces you to become an Arminian, so you will be a spokesman for the other side.

It worked for me! raying:

 

[Darrenss1]

It's actually not so humorous. Tozer was right. any regenerate Arminian when praying is a Calvinist. There can't be any Arminian prayers by true Christians.

Gee, he was joking mate. Obviously you don't have a sense of humor.

Darren

 

[Rippon]

The bottom line remains, until you learn how to use the English language, do not post.

Really, my improper use of English is the main issue you have against me?! Perhaps your bottom line changes from time to time.

 

[TCGreek]

A Gordon Fee.

 

[Rippon]

A Gordon Fee.

I agree. Gordon Fee ranks high on my list of Arminians that I admire.

 

[Rippon]

In Tozar's (sic)series on Hebrews he mentioned in a few or more sermons that he was neither Calvinist nor Arminian. In fact he said when he preaches he's Arminian and when he prays he (sic)a Calvinist!! Gotta love his humor....

There is some truth in some humor. What he said is absolutely true.

I respect Tozer a great deal. I have about ten of his books and have given away his taped messages in the past. He met Dr. ML-Jones around 1950 or so. They were at different ends of the spectrum in some ways -- but they both loved the Lord. Dr. L-J was instrumental in having Tozer's works published in the U.K.

 

[Rippon]

Everything you post is humorous.

Seriously?

Let me be sure I understand what you just said.

I hope that you will sincerely practice this principle.

"There cannot be any Arminian prayers by any true Christians."

AMEN!

What are the types of prayers Arminians pray?

I'm glad you asked.

Charles H. Spurgeon : The Prayer Of The Arminian

You have heard a great many Arminian sermons, I dare say, but you have never heard an Arminian prayer -- for the saints in prayer appear as one in word, and deed and mind. An Arminian would pray desperately like a Calvinist. He cannot pray about free-will, there is no room for it. Fancy him praying,

"Lord, I thank thee I am not like those poor presumptuous Calvinists Lord. I was born with a glorious free-will; I was born with power by which I can turn to thee of myself; I have improved my grace. If everybody had done the same with their grace that I have, they might all be saved. Lord, I know thou dost not make us willing if we are not willing ourselves. Thou givest grace to everybody; some do not improve it, but I do. There are many that will go to hell as much bought with the blood of Christ as I was; they had as much of the Holy Ghost given to them; they had as good a chance, and were as much blessed as I am. It was not thy grace that made us differ; I know it did a great deal, still I turned the point; I made use of what was given me, and others did not -- that is the difference between me and them."

That is about the stupidest statement in the history of this board.

Really? There have been other solid Calvinists through the years with the very same conviction as Spurgeon and myself. Gordon Clark, Herman Hoeksema, B.B. Warfield, Herman Bavinck, A.W. Pink, Dr. M.L-Jones, George Whitefield and others throughout the years have shared similar thoughts on the matter.

 

[Jim1999]

G. Campbell Morgan, like many turn of the last century preachers, were not Arminian. They were sub-lapsarians and dispensationalists, as are many Baptists to-day. The order of the decrees alters their view on the will of man in the order of receiving Jesus as personal Saviour. The late Tozer was a personal friend, as pastor of the Avenue Road Alliance Church, where he died in his study, and was in the same camp as the late Morgan.

Cheers,

Jim

 

[Darrenss1]

G. Campbell Morgan, like many turn of the last century preachers, were not Arminian. They were sub-lapsarians and dispensationalists, as are many Baptists to-day. The order of the decrees alters their view on the will of man in the order of receiving Jesus as personal Saviour. The late Tozer was a personal friend, as pastor of the Avenue Road Alliance Church, where he died in his study, and was in the same camp as the late Morgan.

Cheers,

Jim

Doesn't sub-laparianism include God's predestinating both the elect and the reprobates? How do you know Tozar supported this view?

Darren

 

[saturneptune]

Charles H. Spurgeon : The Prayer Of The Arminian

You have heard a great many Arminian sermons, I dare say, but you have never heard an Arminian prayer -- for the saints in prayer appear as one in word, and deed and mind. An Arminian would pray desperately like a Calvinist. He cannot pray about free-will, there is no room for it. Fancy him praying,

"Lord, I thank thee I am not like those poor presumptuous Calvinists Lord. I was born with a glorious free-will; I was born with power by which I can turn to thee of myself; I have improved my grace. If everybody had done the same with their grace that I have, they might all be saved. Lord, I know thou dost not make us willing if we are not willing ourselves. Thou givest grace to everybody; some do not improve it, but I do. There are many that will go to hell as much bought with the blood of Christ as I was; they had as much of the Holy Ghost given to them; they had as good a chance, and were as much blessed as I am. It was not thy grace that made us differ; I know it did a great deal, still I turned the point; I made use of what was given me, and others did not -- that is the difference between me and them."

Here is a perfect example of what I have been talking about, except in this case, mixing apples and oranges. Here is your quote from before: "There cannot be any Arminian prayers by any true Christians."

Now, the prayer above, which I agree with, is a prayer directed strictly at the salvation process, but this is not what your quote said. Your quote said any prayer. So what you are saying in essence is that an Arminian cannot pray to God for healing someone from sickness, getting someone through a tragic situation, praying for a miracle for someone in financial need, praying for thanksgiving, praying for praising the Lord, praying for deliverance from evil, etc, etc, etc.

Even if one is an Arminian, are you telling us that a mother or father say would not pray to the Lord for a message to touch one of their children, even if they believe it is within their capacity to choose?

 

[Jim1999]

Doesn't sub-laparianism include God's predestinating both the elect and the reprobates? How do you know Tozar supported this view?
========================

Only Supralapsarianism would have predestination for both the elect and non-elect.

Apparently you missed that Tozer and I were personal friends to his death in 1963. Yes, I was well aware of his theological views and he mine. We also shared time at the Keswick Conferences.

Cheers,

Jim

 

[Darrenss1]

Only Supralapsarianism would have predestination for both the elect and non-elect.

I was wondering more along the lines of doctrine, maybe something he taught...

Apparently you missed that Tozer and I were personal friends to his death in 1963. Yes, I was well aware of his theological views and he mine. We also shared time at the Keswick Conferences.

No I got that part, I was just thinking of the first. Did you ever think he would end up being so famous?? I remember hearing him preach on entertainment being introduced into the church, I thought wow, that is almost prophetic!! As many of his views turned out to be.

Darren

 

[rsr]

Please keep on topic, which is the Arminians you admire.

Thank you.

 

[Lux et veritas]

I'm coming to this party a little late. Thanks Rippon, I didn't know GCM was Arminian. I don't know what to think about him bringing up D.M. Lloyd-Jones. I have started collecting books with sermons and I'm considering the GCM set from CBD. I'm also thinking about getting something by Wesley.

I consider myself a Calvinist but the truth be told is I don't have a good firm grip on Arminian theology to make good comparison. To that end, I have brought in a few Arminian theology books but I haven't had time to study them. I think though that a lot of Calvinists who are negative on Arminians don't really know the theology behind the movement. There are liberals in every theological camp.

This is a great comment, and one that needs to be underlined (so I did!). While I am a fully-convinced Calvinist in my theology, I will fellowship with a godly, holy Arminian who is not worldly in life and practice any day over a Calvinist whose theology is merely intellectual, and whose life is filled with worldliness.

 

[Allan]

This is a great comment, and one that needs to be underlined (so I did!). While I am a fully-convinced Calvinist in my theology, I will fellowship with a godly, holy Arminian who is not worldly in life and practice any day over a Calvinist whose theology is merely intellectual, and whose life is filled with worldliness.

Now see, here, we have great common ground. I knew we would eventually :smilewinkgrin: :thumbs:

 

[Lux et veritas]

Everything you post is humorous.


Let me be sure I understand what you just said. "There cannot be any Arminian prayers by any true Christians." What are the types of prayers Arminians pray? That is about the stupidest statement in the history of this board.

I believe Arminians read the same Bible you do that says a fervent prayer avails much. One of the reasons you cannot make effective arguments for Calvinism is that you do not understand the beliefs of the opposite side.

Maybe you should try to understand what Rippon was saying without getting so defensive about it. If you don't like his comment, here's another "stupid" one from Mr. Spurgeon. Now you've heard two "stupid" comments.

I have known many preachers who are Arminians when they preach, but they are all Calvinists when they pray. C.H. Spurgeon

 

[Lux et veritas]

Please keep on topic, which is the Arminians you admire.

Thank you.

Well, I would have to say I have reaped much benefit devotionally from the writings of C.H. McIntosh (plymouth brethren).

 

[saturneptune]

Maybe you should try to understand what Rippon was saying without getting so defensive about it. If you don't like his comment, here's another "stupid" one from Mr. Spurgeon. Now you've heard two "stupid" comments.

I have known many preachers who are Arminians when they preach, but they are all Calvinists when they pray. C.H. Spurgeon

Post 50 has my last words on the subject. If Mr Rippon is a friend of yours, advise him to stop with the names and insults, and others will also.

 

[Allan]

Maybe you should try to understand what Rippon was saying without getting so defensive about it. If you don't like his comment, here's another "stupid" one from Mr. Spurgeon. Now you've heard two "stupid" comments.

I have known many preachers who are Arminians when they preach, but they are all Calvinists when they pray. C.H. Spurgeon

But by that same token, I don't know of any Calvinist who does not pray like an Arminian either because they don't desire God to pass over their children or family. So they beg God to save them, to 'give them a second chance' and so on and so forth. The fact is we all pray like men who believe in God and that God is the only one to whom we can come to intervene as He sees fit, but is also a God who is moved by our cries/pleas.

 

[saturneptune]

But by that same token, I don't know of any Calvinist who does not pray like an Arminian either because they don't desire God to pass over their children or family. So they beg God to save them, to 'give them a second chance' and so on and so forth. The fact is we all pray like men who believe in God and that God is the only one to whom we can come to intervene as He sees fit, but is also a God who is moved by our cries/pleas.

Mr. Lux whatever, read this post carefully. It is a gracious post from someone who disagrees, and he gets the point across very well without using heretic and blasphemy every other word. Although I disagree with Allen on doctrines of grace and sovereignty, he is right on this subject. We can all pray to the Father because of what Christ has done for us.