Arminians That I Admire

[Bob Alkire]

I'm calling him out! Not exactly. He may not call himself an Arminian -- but who from a Calvary Church background does? They want to be considered right in the middle and balanced between the Arminian and Calvinistic poles. However, they are firmly in the Arminian camp denials or not.

Mister Wiersbe pastored a church in Convington, Kentucky back in the 70's -- Calvary Baptist Church.

Also Iain Murray in his his bio of Dr. David M-Lloyd-Jones spoke of him not exactly sharing the theology of the latter. But Dr. L-Jones considered him a friend and even spoke at Wiersbe's church with certain stipulations made beforehand.

Thanks for your reply. I know of him being pastor of Calvary Baptist Church. I went their a few time, when I was passing through that part of the country. As far as Dr. L-Jones I don't know, but wouldn't be surprised, I went to Hargrave Military Academy before I went to college and at our chapel all ministers had stipulations on them before they spoke.

I still wouldn't put him in either camp. But with that said I wouldn't put me in either camp. People in each of those camps put me in the one they aren't in.

 

[Rippon]

Thanks for your reply. I know of him being pastor of Calvary Baptist Church. I went there a few times, when I was passing through that part of the country. As far as Dr. L-Jones I don't know, but wouldn't be surprised, I went to Hargrave Military Academy before I went to college and at our chapel all ministers had stipulations on them before they spoke.

You misunderstood. Lloyd-Jones made some stipulations before agreeing to preach at the church Wiersbe was pastoring.

I said that Wiersbe was at Calvary Baptist in the 70's. Actually he was pastor there from 1961-1971.

Wiersbe also pastored at Moody Memorial Church and one other assembly. I don't know which one Lloyd-Jones preached at Wiersbe's behest.

I still wouldn't put him in either camp.

Wiersbe's not a Calvinist.

 

[Jim1999]

Wiersbe, in fact, spoke of both systems, with high regard for aspects of both. I still contend he was a turn of the last century American Calvinist, as were, and are, so many Baptists to-day..it is that "foreknowledge" thing.

Cheers,

Jim

 

[Rippon]

Wiersbe, in fact, spoke of both systems, with high regard for aspects of both. I still contend he was a turn of the last century American Calvinist, as were, and are, so many Baptists to-day

You are employing the term Calvinist in a very elastic way. You have a big-tent approach.

I know that there is some variety in the Calvinistic camp soteriologically -- but not nearly as much as you hold to.

..it is that "foreknowledge" thing.

I have no idea what you are talking about here. Please elaborate Jim.

 

[Bob Alkire]

You misunderstood. Lloyd-Jones made some stipulations before agreeing to preach at the church Wiersbe was pastoring.

I said that Wiersbe was at Calvary Baptist in the 70's. Actually he was pastor there from 1961-1971.

Thanks again, I did miss understand your statement.

I know when he was in Covington and Moody and Back to the Bible. I too, admire his service.

Wiersbe's not a Calvinist.

We both agree on this. I respect him much.

I'm also in accord with Jim1999 on, he was a turn of the last century American Calvinist, as were, and are, so many Baptists to-day. I also agree with Jim on Wiersbe speaking of both systems, with high regard.

 

[Jim1999]

Rippon, I am a strict theological Calvinist, all 5-points including the absolute sovereignty of God.

Many Baptists claim election and predestination to be based on the foreknowledge of God, allowing man to make the choice freely unto salvation. Those same Baptists would claim to be Calvinists.

Many of the Fellowship pastors are of that persuasion. Those of us from the Regular Baptist group are strict Calvinists and believe foreknowledge is a natural attribute of an eternal God and not a causative factor in election and predestination.

We are not in post-reformation times and the names are virtually useless, in my opinion. Most would abhor the label of Arminian as would all my good friends on the Back to the Bible program.

Most of the professors at the Fellowship Seminary are of the Dallas ilk and would follow the foreknowledge scheme along with dispensationalism.

Hope that clears up what I am saying.

Cheers,

Jim

 

[Rippon]

We are not in post-reformation times and the names are virtually useless, in my opinion.

So were the names useless from 1700-1999 as well? That period was post-Reformation too.

Most would abhor the label of Arminian as would all my good friends on the Back to the Bible program.

Wouldn't they also abhor being called Calvinists too?

That's the thing. Folks don't want to be associated with the name Arminian even though that soteriological position most resembles their own from an historical theological standpoint.

But they certainly don't want to be tainted with being thought of as Calvinists and all the bad luggage that entails.

So they are stuck. They'll opt for being called biblicists -- which in reality is Arminian without having the guts to admit it.

You mentioned Dallas -- they would, for the most part be Amyraldian.

 

[Pipedude]

They'll opt for being called biblicists -- which in reality is Arminian

HOT dawg, now Rip's seen the light! :godisgood:

 

[kyredneck]

HOT dawg, now Rip's seen the light! :godisgood:

..........you should be ashamed of yourself.........:laugh:

 

[kyredneck]

....Many Baptists claim election and predestination to be based on the foreknowledge of God, allowing man to make the choice freely unto salvation.......

Yes they do. Man, talk about putting the cart before the horse; it's another attempt to explain away God's sovereign grace and insert the will of man where it is not.

Those of us from the Regular Baptist group are strict Calvinists and believe foreknowledge is a natural attribute of an eternal God and not a causative factor in election and predestination.

As I've stated before; I have foreknowledge of what's going to come up in my garden because I planted it. The foreknowledge of God is just that simple.

 

[Jim1999]

To my mind, anything that deviates from the five points, deviates from Calvinism. Further, the essence of Calvinism is the absolute sovereignty of God. We cannot strip God of any aspect of that sovereignty and still be a strict Calvinist.

On the other hand, there are many who do deviate, but still label themselves Calvinistic. It is the one way of keeping the doctrine many call, "Once saved; always saved."

Part of Amyraldianism is the blood of Christ on the cross being sufficient to save all, but efficient for the elect. I believe this to be true of Calvinism, as did Calvin, not in the Institutes, which written early in his lifetime, but in his commentary on Romans, which was written much later.

When we employ the term post-reformation, it has a limitation on time, as do all historical writings. Obviously anything dated after Luther is post-reformation. If we use post-reformation in a non-specific way, we can also label the church as post Barthian.

Cheers,

Jim

 

[Carico]

Perhaps this has been a theme of a thread in the past , but I will press ahead . This thread is meant mainly for the Calvinists here . What Arminians of the past and/or present do you respect despite their theological weaknesses ? Many Arminians of the past , for instance , were godly men who might have even been scholarly . There is much to learn from them .

I place Alexander Maclaren (1826-1910) at the top of my list . He was a friend of Spurgeon . MacLaren's sermons were considered topnotch . I only have one ( in a collection of sermons by many preachers ) : The Pattern of Service . It was based on Mark 7:33,34 . At some point I will acquire a book of his messages . He is solid ( with qualifications ) .

George Campbell Morgan ( 1863-1945 ) ranks rather high . He was the senior minister at Westminster Chapel in London . Morgan recruited Dr.Lloyd-Jones as his Associate pastor . I mentioned a book of sermons in the previous paragraph . Morgan has :The Perfect Ideal of Life . It is based on John 8:28-30 . His sermons are not really my cup of tea -- they're not doctrinal enough -- but they do show a keen intellect . I've had his life story by Harold Murray for several months . But I may donate it to my church library .

I don't have any sermons or books by Frederick Brotherton Meyer ( 1847-1929 ) but I have known of him for a long time . If I can secure an inexpensive paperback by the man , I will .

Well , my fellow beievers in the doctrine(s) of grace -- now it is your turn to name some notable ( or not so famous ) Arminians that you have looked up to .

None. If anyone is speaking the truth it's because God has put His word into the hearts of that person. But if one keeps contradicting the bible (which Arminians do), there is no reason to respect what he stands for.

 

[Pipedude]

None. If anyone is speaking the truth it's because God has put His word into the hearts of that person. But if one keeps contradicting the bible (which Arminians do), there is no reason to respect what he stands for.

Well, even if we contradict the Bible, at least we capitalize it. :saint:

 

[Rippon]

A Golden Oldie

Perhaps this has been a theme of a thread in the past, but I will press ahead. This thread is meant mainly for the Calvinists here. What Arminians of the past and/or present do you respect despite their theological weaknesses? Many Arminians of the past, for instance, were godly men who might have even been scholarly. There is much to learn from them .

I place Alexander Maclaren (1826-1910) at the top of my list. He was a friend of Spurgeon. MacLaren's sermons were considered topnotch. I only have one ( in a collection of sermons by many preachers ) : The Pattern of Service. It was based on Mark 7:33,34. At some point I will acquire a book of his messages. He is solid ( with qualifications ) .

George Campbell Morgan ( 1863-1945 ) ranks rather high. He was the senior minister at Westminster Chapel in London. Morgan recruited Dr.Lloyd-Jones as his Associate pastor. Morgan has :The Perfect Ideal of Life . It is based on John 8:28-30. His sermons are not really my cup of tea -- they're not doctrinal enough -- but they do show a keen intellect. I've had his life story by Harold Murray for several months. But I may donate it to my church library.

I don't have any sermons or books by Frederick Brotherton Meyer ( 1847-1929 ) but I have known of him for a long time. If I can secure an inexpensive paperback by the man , I will .

Well, my fellow believers in the doctrine(s) of grace -- now it is your turn to name some notable ( or not so famous ) Arminians that you have looked up to.

Time to revive this thread. Calvinists, at least most of them do not despise Arminians --but consider them brothers and sisters in the Lord.

A.W. Pink advised someone who liked Alexander MacLaren's sermons not to feel bad about it. He went on to say that one's theological life would be much poorer without reading the works of good and godly Arminians.

 

[Yeshua1]

Perhaps this has been a theme of a thread in the past , but I will press ahead . This thread is meant mainly for the Calvinists here . What Arminians of the past and/or present do you respect despite their theological weaknesses ? Many Arminians of the past , for instance , were godly men who might have even been scholarly . There is much to learn from them .

I place Alexander Maclaren (1826-1910) at the top of my list . He was a friend of Spurgeon . MacLaren's sermons were considered topnotch . I only have one ( in a collection of sermons by many preachers ) : The Pattern of Service . It was based on Mark 7:33,34 . At some point I will acquire a book of his messages . He is solid ( with qualifications ) .

George Campbell Morgan ( 1863-1945 ) ranks rather high . He was the senior minister at Westminster Chapel in London . Morgan recruited Dr.Lloyd-Jones as his Associate pastor . I mentioned a book of sermons in the previous paragraph . Morgan has :The Perfect Ideal of Life . It is based on John 8:28-30 . His sermons are not really my cup of tea -- they're not doctrinal enough -- but they do show a keen intellect . I've had his life story by Harold Murray for several months . But I may donate it to my church library .

I don't have any sermons or books by Frederick Brotherton Meyer ( 1847-1929 ) but I have known of him for a long time . If I can secure an inexpensive paperback by the man , I will .

Well , my fellow beievers in the doctrine(s) of grace -- now it is your turn to name some notable ( or not so famous ) Arminians that you have looked up to .

CS Lewis
Norman Geisler
Josh McDowell

 

[Revmitchell]

CS Lewis
Norman Geisler
Josh McDowell

Those men are not arminians

 

[Yeshua1]

Those men are not arminians

Dr Geisler is one, as represented by his Systematic Theology, and CS lewis did not hold to reformed views on salvation, and think josh is a free wiill Baptist, isn't he?