Arminius on Calvin

[Luke2427]

Lets name it and claim it: Reformed or Calvinistic Theology
Arminian Theology, or Catholic Theology, or Mormon Theology.
So being able to label a theology does not support its validity.

How about Minimalist Bible Theology. It is based on the idea of avoiding corrupting God's word with man-made additions, or nullifying verses that do not mesh with an idealized theology based on selected interpretations of selected verses.

So you admit it is nameless, right?

You admit it has no historical roots, correct?

You think such credentials are worthless, right?

The church has hammered these things out for nearly two thousand years, but that really has no REAL value to you- right?

Every man for himself theologically- who CARES that no one has ever held to such an ecclectic, buffet line, hodge podge of doctrines that do not go together, that cannot nor has ever been systematized, right?

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Did not the Catholic theologians at the time of the Reformation warn us that this teaching everyone to read scripture would eventually lead to this? So why are you so surprised when it comes to fruition?

Every man for himself theologically- who CARES that no one has ever held to such an ecclectic, buffet line, hodge podge of doctrines that do not go together, that cannot nor has ever been systematized, right?

 

[Luke2427]

Did not the Catholic theologians at the time of the Reformation warn us that this teaching everyone to read scripture would eventually lead to this? So why are you so surprised when it comes to fruition?

Every man for himself theologically- who CARES that no one has ever held to such an ecclectic, buffet line, hodge podge of doctrines that do not go together, that cannot nor has ever been systematized, right?

Yes. Good and bad came from the Reformation.

The problem is with the depravity of man- his inability to approach the holy things of God, such as His Word and Doctrine, with reverential fear and immense humility.

People totally unqualified to teach doctrine- do... without hesitation.

Jude warned us of this, too:

But these speak evil of those things which they know not: but what they know naturally, as brute beasts, in those things they corrupt themselves. 11Woe unto them! for they have gone in the way of Cain, and ran greedily after the error of Balaam for reward, and perished in the gainsaying of Core. 12These are spots in your feasts of charity, when they feast with you, feeding themselves without fear: clouds they are without water, carried about of winds; trees whose fruit withereth, without fruit, twice dead, plucked up by the roots; 13Raging waves of the sea, foaming out their own shame; wandering stars, to whom is reserved the blackness of darkness for ever.

 

[Van]

Reply to Luke2427

So you admit it is nameless, right?

You admit it has no historical roots, correct?

You think such credentials are worthless, right?

The church has hammered these things out for nearly two thousand years, but that really has no REAL value to you- right?

Every man for himself theologically- who CARES that no one has ever held to such an ecclectic, buffet line, hodge podge of doctrines that do not go together, that cannot nor has ever been systematized, right?

No, I pointed out that whether it has a widely held name or not, the name means nothing. Thus the logical fallacy of an argument from irrelevance.

Yes, that other people have accepted a doctrine means nothing because people have widely accepted true doctrine and false doctrine. Thus the logical fallacy of an argument from popularity rather than truth.

First, Calvinism has its roots from about 400 years ago, and does not reflect the consensus of the Church. What people believed in the first century helps us get closer to the actual message of the New Testament, but the traditions of men over the intervening years should not supplant the views expressed in scripture.

The existing splits within the body of Christ reflect the every man or group for himself mentality, my goal is to present a view that everyone can adopt because it is closer to truth.

My views are not hodge podge, they are based on all scripture. They are not selective like Calvinism, where all the verses that say Calvinism is false are nullified. My views all fit together perfectly with all scripture, they just do not fit with your understanding of scripture. My views are systematized in that they accept the work of others as to (1)Theology, (2) Bible, (3) Trinity, (4)Christology, (5)Salvation, (6) Mankind, (7) End times.

 

[Benjamin]

Did not the Catholic theologians at the time of the Reformation warn us that this teaching everyone to read scripture would eventually lead to this? So why are you so surprised when it comes to fruition?

Every man for himself theologically- who CARES that no one has ever held to such an ecclectic, buffet line, hodge podge of doctrines that do not go together, that cannot nor has ever been systematized, right?

Personally, I don’t expect Catholic theologians’ warnings to be without partiality and I don’t expect their concerns to have motives other than those of control and to maintain their manmade systems. They were/are people who formed traditions by building systems who called themselves and their doctrines holy while thinking others to be deprived of such virtues if they strayed from their prideful system. In reality it is those that proudly put man’s systems and try to box everything within are the ones who forgo God truths and come to spoil.

Col 2:8
(8) Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.

I see little different between those who worship the Pope and those that worship Calvin. I mean look at what they say about him: “Calvin was one of the greatest men of the Bible” as if there was a book in the Bible written by him or he had the authority of biblical prophecy. The Calvinist system has spoiled many in their pride of building and holding to a particular system.

 

[Rippon]

I see little different [sic]between those who worship the Pope and those that worship Calvin.

Back to your despicable ways I see Ben. Shame on you. Lying doesn't become you. Stick to your Health and Wellness topics.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Back to your despicable ways I see Ben. Shame on you. Lying doesn't become you. Stick to your Health and Wellness topics.

Its all right Rippon, our boy Ben appears to have not understood the emphasis of my post so he took the opportunity to attack a theologian & systematic theology. Since he has little if no understanding of that subject matter except to express a negative bias, kudos to you for suggesting sticking to what he does know best....namely information you can get at any health food store or by reading the Readers Digest.:thumbs:

 

[JesusFan]

Personally, I don’t expect Catholic theologians’ warnings to be without partiality and I don’t expect their concerns to have motives other than those of control and to maintain their manmade systems. They were/are people who formed traditions by building systems who called themselves and their doctrines holy while thinking others to be deprived of such virtues if they strayed from their prideful system. In reality it is those that proudly put man’s systems and try to box everything within are the ones who forgo God truths and come to spoil.

Col 2:8
(8) Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.

I see little different between those who worship the Pope and those that worship Calvin. I mean look at what they say about him: “Calvin was one of the greatest men of the Bible” as if there was a book in the Bible written by him or he had the authority of biblical prophecy. The Calvinist system has spoiled many in their pride of building and holding to a particular system.

see John Calvin as being one of the greatest theologians of the Church , but do not see either him or calvinism as being 'The Bible", as in my mind the greatest theologian who ever lived was the Apostle paul, and Calvin just not in that same league!

 

[Rippon]

... look at what they say about him: “Calvin was one of the greatest men of the Bible” as if there was a book in the Bible written by him or he had the authority of biblical prophecy.

Who has said that?! Document,before you say silly things. Calvin didn't write any canonical book. He didn't live in Bible times.

John Calvin was one of the greatest Bible scholars who has ever lived. That he was a world class theologian and Bible expositor is undeniable.

 

[Van]

"John Calvin propounded more truth clearly than any other man who ever breathed." This would seem to put Calvin on the same footing as Peter or Paul or Jesus or Luke or Matthew or John. Yet his work was not inspired. The quote is from Spurgeon

 

[webdog]

"John Calvin propounded more truth clearly than any other man who ever breathed." This would seem to put Calvin on the same footing as Peter or Paul or Jesus or Luke or Matthew or John. Yet his work was not inspired. The quote is from Spurgeon

Wow...never knew he said that

 

[Rippon]

"John Calvin propounded more truth clearly than any other man who ever breathed." This would seem to put Calvin on the same footing as Peter or Paul or Jesus or Luke or Matthew or John. Yet his work was not inspired. The quote is from Spurgeon

He clearly was thinking of Church Hisory --after all the Apostles had died.

 

[JesusFan]

"John Calvin propounded more truth clearly than any other man who ever breathed." This would seem to put Calvin on the same footing as Peter or Paul or Jesus or Luke or Matthew or John. Yet his work was not inspired. The quote is from Spurgeon

Would say that The Apostles, especially Paul were superior to Calvin, as their very words and theology were directly from God...

Would say he was/is best that was not inspired by God, best non Apostle theologian to ever live

Calvinism is NOT infallible/perfect as a theological system, but it is the best current model that we have to to work with...

Still think that Apostle Paul finest theologian, Calvin best after the Apostle group!

 

[webdog]

He clearly was thinking of Church Hisory --after all the Apostles had died.

Interpreted like I would think a calvinist would. "Any other man who ever breathed" doesn't really mean THAT

 

[Rippon]

Interpreted like I would think a calvinist would. "Any other man who ever breathed" doesn't really mean THAT

C.H.S. was using hyperbole. I believe you use it on occasion.

 

[Skandelon]

He clearly was thinking of Church Hisory --after all the Apostles had died.

Speaking of biblical inspiration, if what Calvin taught was truth then what makes his words any more or less inspired than that of the apostles within the Calvinistic system where all things are decreed by God?

If God decreed Paul to write Romans and decreed Calvin to write the institutes, what makes Paul's works any more authoritative? In other words, how do Calvinists distinguish between the "inspired authoritative truth" versus just "normal truth?"

 

[webdog]

C.H.S. was using hyperbole. I believe you use it on occasion.

...and the twisting continues...using your human reasoning

 

[Rippon]

...and the twisting continues...using your human reasoning

Are you claiming you have never made an overstatement on the BB to establish one of your celebrated points?

Spurgeon was exaggerating. There is no twisting on my part here. I really do not think he honestly was saying Calvin was the greatest ever,but a man who propounded truth more clearly than any other since the apostolic age. He was being hyperbolic. You disagree. Life goes on.

 

[Benjamin]

Col 2:8

(8) Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.



I see little different between those who worship the Pope and those that worship Calvin. I mean look at what they say about him: “Calvin was one of the greatest men of the Bible” as if there was a book in the Bible written by him or he had the authority of biblical prophecy. The Calvinist system has spoiled many in their pride of building and holding to a particular system.

Who has said that?! Document,before you say silly things. Calvin didn't write any canonical book. He didn't live in Bible times.

John Calvin was....blah, blah, blah...

Rip! Didn’t you even read the OP? How could you overlook such spoil?!?

Unfortunately there are some of the shallower sort who incessantly regurgitate the same old assault- that Calvinists follow a man and not the Bible even though Calvin was one of the greatest men of the Bible who ever lived;

I understand you were feeling the sting from the comparison of worshiping men and systems and how that hits close to home, but try to be more careful before asking such silly questions, this kind of neglect reveals your inability to focus of the topic.

 

[Rippon]

Rip! Didn’t you even read the OP? How could you overlook such spoil?!?

I see what you mean. I did in fact not read the OP. I just couldn't believe anyone would say what was quoted. I stand corrected.

John Calvin was a brilliant student and teacher of the Word of God. But with Luke using the phraseology "one of the greatest men of the Bible" was a mistake on his part. Calvin deserves a lot of credit --but not to that unwarranted degree!