As an Arminian, why did you believe?

[IESUwaShu]

Peace brothers. 5 point Classical Arminian Baptist here.

I've been thinking on the root of belief for a few days and would like to hear your opinions.

How would a free will believer (aka non-Calvinist) explain why they have believed? They chose to believe and submit to God, but why? Why they said yes to the Spirit while others say no?

Is it due to previous personal experiences that make their heart more or less harden, and them more or less prideful? But in this case, one could argue that being born in a certain environment/family, would pre-dispose you to accept or reject the Lord. If God appointed you to be born in a certain circumstance, and that circumstance influences your decision, isn't God kinda forcing/suggesting you on your decision?

Now, against this environment argument is the angel's rebellion. Why 1/3 rebelled while 2/3 didn't, if they all had the same circumstances and all lived in Heaven in the Lord's presence?

I fail to understand the deciding factor and how would that be a sole, fully independent free will decision.

 

[AustinC]

The free will person would have to ignore Ephesians 2:4-5.

 

[37818]

The free will person would have to ignore Ephesians 2:4-5.

You have explained nothing. How does believing the concept of having a free will ignore Ephesians 2:4-5? ". . . But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us, Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved; ) . . ."

 

[kyredneck]

How would a free will believer (aka non-Calvinist) explain why they have believed? ....I fail to understand the deciding factor and how would that be a sole, fully independent free will decision.

29 because to you it hath been granted in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer in his behalf: Phil 2

48 And as the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of God: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed. Acts 13

47 He that is of God heareth the words of God: for this cause ye hear them not, because ye are not of God. Jn 8

26 But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep.
27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: Jn 10

65 And he said, For this cause have I said unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it be given unto him of the Father. Jn 6

27 All things have been delivered unto me of my Father: and no one knoweth the Son, save the Father; neither doth any know the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son willeth to reveal him. Mt 11

 

[AustinC]

You have explained nothing. How does believing the concept of having a free will ignore Ephesians 2:4-5? ". . . But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us, Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved; ) . . ."

If you agree with this scripture then you agree that it's all God's work, not man's.

 

[Bible Thumpin n Gun Totin]

Neither Arminian nor Calvinist, I do believe in Prevenient Grace and Conditional Election.

I don't expect that we will be able to fully understand it on this earth.

I don't think that the environment is a factor in the choice though. If we believe in Prevenient Grace where God gives Grace to people to make the decision then that would level the field in my opinion and remove any environmental factors from consideration for that moment.

We know election exists as per the Bible, so I think that environment is never a factor. I.E there is never a case of one of God's Elect not being Saved due to environmental problems. God will save those whom were elect from the foundation of the world, environmental factors or not.

 

[37818]

If you agree with this scripture then you agree that it's all God's work, not man's.

Salvation is solely God's work, John 10:27-29. But per Ephesians 1:13, ". . . after that ye believed, . . ."

 

[AustinC]

Salvation is solely God's work, John 10:27-29. But per Ephesians 1:13, ". . . after that ye believed, . . ."

Are you unaware that Ephesians 1 supports predestination?

 

[atpollard]

As an Arminian, why did you believe?

As a Calvinist, I would ask my fellow Particular Baptists to show a little respect and restraint here. We are crashing someone else’s party and should both “tread lightly” and “be respectful” … to our painfully misinformed General Baptist Brothers.
[just kidding]

 

[37818]

Are you unaware that Ephesians 1 supports predestination?

So? Romans 8:29, Ephesians 1:4 as in Mark 13:20.

 

[AustinC]

So? Romans 8:29, Ephesians 1:4 as in Mark 13:20.

Great verses. What's your point in posting them as a reference?

 

[37818]

Great verses. What's your point in posting them as a reference?

I answered what you had asked me. It is what I believe. Along with the general redemption. You really do not understand my point of view.

 

[AustinC]

I answered what you had asked me. It is what I believe. Along with the general redemption. You really do not understand my point of view.

I understand it. I recognize that you will not take your position to its conclusion. We will have to leave it at that.

 

[AustinC]

As an Arminian, why did you believe?

As a Calvinist, I would ask my fellow Particular Baptists to show a little respect and restraint here. We are crashing someone else’s party and should both “tread lightly” and “be respectful” … to our painfully misinformed General Baptist Brothers.
[just kidding]

You are right. I left the Arminian position a number of years ago. I will let them speak and try to observe.

 

[37818]

I understand it. I recognize that you will not take your position to its conclusion. We will have to leave it at that.

Oh, I have and do take the Scriptures to their logical conclusions. Different presuppositions will cause different conclusions. The written word of God is the final authority in all matters of the faith and practice. I presume we at the very least agree on that concept. Bear in mind I believe in the particular redemption too.

I honestly do not see any valid basis to conclude that the purpose of Christ's paying for sins disallows it from being the general redemption.

 

[AVL1984]

Are you unaware that Ephesians 1 supports predestination?

I think vs. 12 of that chapter debunks your "theory" or interpretation. To "trust" takes free will...if it's forced trust, it's not "trust."

 

[AustinC]

I think vs. 12 of that chapter debunks your "theory" or interpretation. To "trust" takes free will...if it's forced trust, it's not "trust."

Your complaint is similar to what Paul addresses in Romans 9:19-24 where he presents your questions and answers them with his own questions back at you.

You will say to me then, “Why does he still find fault? For who can resist his will?” But who are you, O man, to answer back to God? Will what is molded say to its molder, “Why have you made me like this?” Has the potter no right over the clay, to make out of the same lump one vessel for honorable use and another for dishonorable use? What if God, desiring to show his wrath and to make known his power, has endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction, in order to make known the riches of his glory for vessels of mercy, which he has prepared beforehand for glory— even us whom he has called, not from the Jews only but also from the Gentiles?

So, God anticipated your complaint and answers it. The question is whether you will accept God's answer or rebel against it.

 

[IESUwaShu]

sigh... my thread was invaded by Calvinists...

neither the question, nor my intention, had anything to do with discussing Calvinism x Arminianism

the question is specifically tailored to free will believers

@AVL1984 and @37818 what do you think about my question?

My recent theory, and yes pure speculation, is that perhaps that Lord created all possible combinations of personalities when creating mankind, so while knowing which path each one would take, He still found it worth doing. Worth to the point of giving His Son as a sacrifice and having to crush Him.

 

[AustinC]

sigh... my thread was invaded by Calvinists...

neither the question, nor my intention, had anything to do with discussing Calvinism x Arminianism

the question is specifically tailored to free will believers

@AVL1984 and @37818 what do you think about my question?

My recent theory, and yes pure speculation, is that perhaps that Lord created all possible combinations of personalities when creating mankind, so while knowing which path each one would take, He still found it worth doing. Worth to the point of giving His Son as a sacrifice and having to crush Him.

Thanks for your honest and pure speculation.

 

[37818]

sigh... my thread was invaded by Calvinists...

neither the question, nor my intention, had anything to do with discussing Calvinism x Arminianism

the question is specifically tailored to free will believers

@AVL1984 and @37818 what do you think about my question?

My recent theory, and yes pure speculation, is that perhaps that Lord created all possible combinations of personalities when creating mankind, so while knowing which path each one would take, He still found it worth doing. Worth to the point of giving His Son as a sacrifice and having to crush Him.

I am not sure I understand what you are proposing. I believe God made man to be self willed. Man thinks of his will as being a free will. [The truth is per Romans 6:16]