As I said before, Catholics arent Christians

[Eliyahu]

Acts 2:38 should read this way:

Then Peter said unto them, for the remission of sins, repent and be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit .

εισ αφεσιν αμαρτιων doesn't apply to baptize only, but the remission of sins applies to
both repent and be baptized.

Ye must be born again by water and Holy Spirit doesn't mean the water of baptism.

This is a Johanine style and Water meant in OT sometimes death as we can see in Noah's Ark.
Water drowned everything and meant the death of Jesus. On top of Water, the Ark which represent the body of Christ, Church of Christ was floating. Today, Church of Christ travels on the basis of death of Christ.
Linda may know very well about Mikveh in Hebrew.
This means the water cleansing the sins.
Therefore Water means Words of God which have the cleansing power for the sins.
This is also mentioned in 1 John 5:6

Even though we wash ourselves with water thousand times, if we do not repent in the depth of our heart, then we won't be born again. Even though we may swim in the water every morning, if our heart is not changed by the Words of God and Holy Spirit, we will not be born again.

Baptism means the official declaration of the fact that the person is spiritually born again. Therefore it should be performed unto the person who repented and accepted Jesus as his or her Savior and Lord. Therefore no one can be born again just because he or she was baptized. Baptism is conducted to the person who was born again already.
This rules out the infant baptism.

 

[Tazman]

Originally posted by jay29:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Linda64:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Debby in Philly:
Wearing the label "Protestant" or "Catholic" or "Baptist" does not make one a Christian who is on their way to heaven.

Being born again by the power of the Holy Spirit does. Regardless of label. And that is one person at a time, not in bulk.

AMEN Debby!!!

That's why YE MUST BE BORN AGAIN !! </font>[/QUOTE]You are right! Born again means being baptized with water and the Holy Spirit! I am born again. I was baptized. </font>[/QUOTE]Yep, be born again Jesus' baptism. Water - faith repentance just like the first century church. You got it.

The bible specifically teaches you that you are saved in your baptism through faith in Christ.

If Jesus was refering to water like when one is born then he would have at least acknowledge that Nicodemus is partially correct. The point is plain and simple you are forgiven by entering a covenant with God in faith being baptized.

What is the contention with being baptized anyway, scared of water or something?

 

[Eliyahu]

Originally posted by jay29:
That's why YE MUST BE BORN AGAIN !! [/qb]

You are right! Born again means being baptized with water and the Holy Spirit! I am born again. I was baptized. [/QB][/QUOTE]
__________________________________________________________________________________________________
This reveals the misunderstanding about the Being Born Again.

If you were not spiritually born again, even though you are baptized thousand times, you will not go to the heaven .

 

[Tazman]

Originally posted by Eliyahu:
Acts 2:38 should read this way:

Then Peter said unto them, for the remission of sins, repent and be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit .

Just rewrite the bible that your people translated and it will read the way you think it should.

 

[Tazman]

Originally posted by Eliyahu:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by jay29:
That's why YE MUST BE BORN AGAIN !!

You are right! Born again means being baptized with water and the Holy Spirit! I am born again. I was baptized. [/QB]</font>[/QUOTE]__________________________________________________________________________________________________
This reveals the misunderstanding about the Being Born Again.

If you were not spiritually born again, even though you are baptized thousand times, you will not go to the heaven . [/QB][/QUOTE]

The bible is clear it all happen at baptism when a person has faith. Simple.

 

[jay29]

So does being Born Again have the same meaning as Confirmation to the Catholics?

Born Again = Confirmation

Confirmation = Born Again

 

[Linda64]

Originally posted by jay29:
That's why YE MUST BE BORN AGAIN !!

Look again Tazman--jay29 didn't quote that, I did.

 

[Tazman]

Originally posted by jay29:
So does being Born Again have the same meaning as Confirmation to the Catholics?

Born Again = Confirmation

Confirmation = Born Again

I'm not Catholic.

Born Again means new creation in Christ.

 

[Tazman]

Originally posted by Linda64:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by jay29:
That's why YE MUST BE BORN AGAIN !!

Look again Tazman--jay29 didn't quote that, I did. </font>[/QUOTE]I'm sorry. My response is the same though. Thank you for the correction

Grace and Peace

 

[Chemnitz]

Jay29 Baptism = born again for there is water and spirit. If it were not a means by which God brings people into his family it would not be described as a means to make new disciples Mt 28:16.

I do not think that Jn 3 is a direct reference to Baptism as such shouldn't be used a text to defend the doctrine of Baptism; Rm 6,Mt 28,1 Pt 3 are more than sufficient to show what God does in Baptism.

 

[Eliyahu]

There are so many people on this BB who do not know the true meaning of Being Born Again, because they have never experienced it!

Was Martin Luther born again at the time when he was baptized as an infant ? Have you ever heard that he was saved in 1515, 2 years before his start of reformation work?

 

[Doubting Thomas]

Originally posted by Linda64:
The key word is discernment. There are many "false" christs and "false" teachers in the churches--not just in the Independent Fundamental movement--how about the SBC and the Reform movement? The only standard by which you check these "false" christs and "false" teachers out is by God's Word. (Acts 17:11)

You didn't answer my question Linda. How does one determine who is actually listening to the Spirit and giving the correct interpretation of Scripture? You first respond by saying "discernment". Well, what if me and my buddy are trying to decide which of two conflicting interpretations is "spirit-led" and we come to different conclusions, both based on our "discernment". What next? How do we determine which of us really has this "discernment", since we each have discerned opposite conclusions from the the other about which is the true "spirit-led" interpretation, without falling into pure subjectivism? Then you say the only standard by which we can check who are "false teachers" is by God's Word (by which I assume you are limiting to Scriptures). But then we're back to square one--"God's Word" interpreted by whom? (The circular reasoning is now complete....

)

 

[Chemnitz]

There are so many people on this BB who do not know the true meaning of Being Born Again, because they have never experienced it!

Was Martin Luther born again at the time when he was baptized as an infant ? Have you ever heard that he was saved in 1515, 2 years before his start of reformation work?

Are you sure you didn't experience some bad indigestion? Or maybe you just had one of those tear jerker moments like people get at touchy feely conferences?

People who base their perception of salvation on their experiences rather than on the sure word of God are on shaky ground, easy prey for Satan and his deceptions.

Yes, Martin Luther was and he said as much. He trusted in the promises of God not in his feelings or experiences, for in those he found only human failings.

 

[Doubting Thomas]

Originally posted by Eliyahu:
There are so many people on this BB who do not know the true meaning of Being Born Again, because they have never experienced it!

Hmmm...you might be on to something here (though, if I were you, I wouldn't be too hasty to judge who those specific folks might actually be...)

 

[Doubting Thomas]

Originally posted by Chemnitz:
[QB] </font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />There are so many people on this BB who do not know the true meaning of Being Born Again, because they have never experienced it!

Was Martin Luther born again at the time when he was baptized as an infant ? Have you ever heard that he was saved in 1515, 2 years before his start of reformation work?

Are you sure you didn't experience some bad indigestion? Or maybe you just had one of those tear jerker moments like people get at touchy feely conferences?

People who base their perception of salvation on their experiences rather than on the sure word of God are on shaky ground, easy prey for Satan and his deceptions.

</font>[/QUOTE]Excellent point.

 

[riverm]

Originally posted by Doubting Thomas:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Chemnitz:
[QB] </font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />There are so many people on this BB who do not know the true meaning of Being Born Again, because they have never experienced it!

Was Martin Luther born again at the time when he was baptized as an infant ? Have you ever heard that he was saved in 1515, 2 years before his start of reformation work?

Are you sure you didn't experience some bad indigestion? Or maybe you just had one of those tear jerker moments like people get at touchy feely conferences?

People who base their perception of salvation on their experiences rather than on the sure word of God are on shaky ground, easy prey for Satan and his deceptions.

</font>[/QUOTE]Excellent point.

</font>[/QUOTE]Ditto

 

[Linda64]

You didn't answer my question Linda. How does one determine who is actually listening to the Spirit and giving the correct interpretation of Scripture? You first respond by saying "discernment". Well, what if me and my buddy are trying to decide which of two conflicting interpretations is "spirit-led" and we come to different conclusions, both based on our "discernment". What next? How do we determine which of us really has this "discernment", since we each have discerned opposite conclusions from the the other about which is the true "spirit-led" interpretation, without falling into pure subjectivism? Then you say the only standard by which we can check who are "false teachers" is by God's Word (by which I assume you are limiting to Scriptures). But then we're back to square one--"God's Word" interpreted by whom? (The circular reasoning is now complete.... )

Now I know why you have the name Doubting Thomas--you must still be doubting God's Word and having the "magesterium" interpret" the Bible for you!! The Word of God is "spiritual" and can only be "discerned" spiritually. The "natural" mind cannot discern "spiritual" things. You cannot "discern" things, like God's Word with the "natural" mind. God's Word is "spiritual"-- that's why there are so many "interpretations".

But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned. (1 Corinthians 2:14)

You Catholics are like "blind guides". You are spiritually hardhearted (and spiritually blind) and unable to discern God's Word, yet you say that everyone else is wrong in using God's Word as the final authority. WOW

But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him. (1 John 2:27)

Then you say the only standard by which we can check who are "false teachers" is by God's Word (by which I assume you are limiting to Scriptures).

I see that you don't believe that the Bible is sufficient--do you believe that the blood of Jesus Christ is sufficient to save you? Or do you believe that you need the "magesterium" to "discern" that one for you too?

That's why YE MUST BE BORN AGAIN !

 

[Johnv]

Originally posted by jay29:
So does being Born Again have the same meaning as Confirmation to the Catholics?

No.

Confirmation is a rite of passage from childhood to adulthood. When a child becomes of age, s/he confirms his/her own membership in the RCC, apart from the parents. It's roughly similar in custom to a Jewish Bar Mitzvah. If the confirmande has not been baptized, they are baptised at their confirmation.

Confirmation is also what an adult convert to Catholicism goes through. Likewise, if they have not been baptized already, then they are baptized at their confirmation.

 

[larry9179]

I haven't read all the posts on this thread...well, I've really only read the last one. Here's what I do know. My fiance was Catholic until she passed away a couple of years ago. She knew Jesus. She talked to Jesus. She loved Jesus. She's with Jesus. There's a lot of Christians in hell who thought they knew Jesus. God judges the heart, not our intellect. We'd all go to hell if that were so.

 

[Johnv]

Amen, larry. My sincere condolences for your loss.