Asbury College - another revival?

[Ray Berrian]

'all the multitude of the disciples...'

This has reference to disciples who followed Christ because of their previous involvement with Him perhaps because of the healing He did among the people. The writers are not difinitively referring to Judas. This is an agrument from silence, meaning the Scripture does not say that Judas joined in with his personal Hosannas.

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Yes, refresh my mind as to where in the N.T. that is says that Judas did as noted in your p.s. This may be a fact and I just forgot it. Book, chapter and verse will be perfect.

 

[eloidalmanutha]

Originally posted by Ray Berrian:
'all the multitude of the disciples...'

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr /> This has reference to disciples who followed Christ because of their previous involvement with Him perhaps because of the healing He did among the people. The writers are not difinitively referring to Judas. This is an agrument from silence, meaning the Scripture does not say that Judas joined in with his personal Hosannas.

.

Yes, refresh my mind as to where in the N.T. that is says that Judas did as noted in your p.s. This may be a fact and I just forgot it. Book, chapter and verse will be perfect. </font>[/QUOTE]You are being particularly obtusive. Scripture says " ***ALL*** THE MULTITUDE OF DISCIPLES". They were the disciples of Jesus and this was one of the most important focal points of His ministry. Get real

Mark 11:10 Blessed is the coming kingdom of our father David in the name of the Lord! Hosanna in the highest!
11 And Jesus entered into Jerusalem, and into the temple. And having looked around at all things, the hour already being late, He went out to Bethany with the Twelve.

************

Mark 6:7 ¶ And He called the Twelve near and began to send them out two by two. And He gave them authority over the unclean spirits,
8 and charged them that they take nothing in the way, except only a staff; no bag, no bread, no copper in the belt;
9 but having tied on sandals, and not putting on two tunics.
10 And He said to them, Wherever you enter into a house, remain there until you go out from there.
11 And as many as will not receive you, nor hear from you, having gone out from there, shake off the dust under your feet for a testimony to them. Truly I say to you, It will be more bearable for Sodom or Gomorrah in Judgment Day than for that city.
12 And going out, they proclaimed that men should repent.
13 And they cast out many demons, and anointed with oil and healed many sick ones.

 

[eloidalmanutha]

Ray,
Judas worshipped Jesus - let's look at Matt 14:

22 ¶ And immediately Jesus made His disciples get into a boat and to go before Him to the other side until He should dismiss the crowds.

31 And immediately stretching out the hand, Jesus took hold of him, and said to him, Little-faith, why did you doubt?
32 And coming into the boat, the wind ceased.
33 And those in the boat came and worshiped Him, saying, Truly, You are the Son of God.

 

[Ray Berrian]

eloidalmanutha,

A lot of people know Jesus is the Son of God, but this does not mean that they have invited Him into their hearts in a true and lively trust in Christ. If Judas would have truly believed in Jesus, our Lord, if you will--would have 'cut Judas a break' just as He did for Peter on three different occasions. Jesus said He prayed for Peter 'that his faith fail not,' but Christ never prayed for Judas because he was a false believer.

Jesus was right by what He said in John 6:70. Judas was hardly a true worshiper of the Lord; our Lord called Judas a devil. Right or wrong?!

Judas followed the Lord so he could steal from the money bag.

 

[eloidalmanutha]

Originally posted by Ray Berrian:
eloidalmanutha,

A lot of people know Jesus is the Son of God, but this does not mean that they have invited Him into their hearts in a true and lively trust in Christ. If Judas would have truly believed in Jesus, our Lord, if you will--would have 'cut Judas a break' just as He did for Peter on three different occasions. Jesus said He prayed for Peter 'that his faith fail not,' but Christ never prayed for Judas because he was a false believer.

Jesus was right by what He said in John 6:70. Judas was hardly a true worshiper of the Lord; our Lord called Judas a devil. Right or wrong?!

Judas followed the Lord so he could steal from the money bag.

RAY -
you have totally twisted the entire context. this is what I originally stated - please read carefully . . .

quote:
Originally posted by Ray Berrian:
Hillclimber,

You said, 'Our emotions are a virtual playground for evil forces.'

This is really an overkill. Do you want us all to be stoical Presbyterians with no spiritual emotion? Oh, and I am sure many Presbyterians are saved--and are the people of God.

A couple of things make up faith in Christ and perhaps more than these. The will and the emotions. . . A person can be saved without great pulsations of emotion, but somewhere in your Christian experience you will experience emotion toward Him and from Him because of all that Jesus has done for you. After all if He does not mean that much to us, we will not witness to the saving power of Jesus Christ.
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quote: eloidalmanutha:
Ray,

Let me state this as simply as I can:

* faith in God does not equal feelings

* feelings are a God-given emotion to express the heart of man - but are not necessarily an expression of faith. anyone can shout praise to God - look at Judas.

* joy of the Lord is not limited to or exclusively an outward expression

* joy and peace are a state of being in God

* church is not the "end-all" or even the beginning of worship, praise, study of the Word or any other expression of salvation in Christ

* some people use church as an expression of "faith" using emotionalism as it's calling card in the form of praise and worship

* certain denominations/churches appear dead because they are. they will not go away. this is not God's fault. Get out of them and find a group of people who understand what it means to serve the Lord with joy and gladness and will encourage each other to go out and love the lost with hands on.

* Paul and Silas worshipped in prison, in stocks, in pain after being beaten. Worship is a state of the heart.

[end quote]


I did NOT say that Judas was saved. I did not imply that Judas was saved. I am stating that just because someone praises God does not make them saved. This is the point of my posts. Judas also cast out demons and healed, not because he was "saved" but because it was the thing to do. How else do you think he fooled all the disciples right up til the Last Supper?

This is how deception works. It looks like God, feels like God, sounds like God - but IT IS NOT GOD.

 

[Boanerges]

Originally posted by Ray Berrian:
eloidalmanutha,

A lot of people know Jesus is the Son of God, but this does not mean that they have invited Him into their hearts in a true and lively trust in Christ. If Judas would have truly believed in Jesus, our Lord, if you will--would have 'cut Judas a break' just as He did for Peter on three different occasions. Jesus said He prayed for Peter 'that his faith fail not,' but Christ never prayed for Judas because he was a false believer.

Jesus was right by what He said in John 6:70. Judas was hardly a true worshiper of the Lord; our Lord called Judas a devil. Right or wrong?!

Judas followed the Lord so he could steal from the money bag.

hmmm....sounds like Hinn and company I wonder what Christ would have said to 'ol Benny?

 

[Ray Berrian]

Boanerges,

My guess is that you are predisposed to believe all the mantra people have told you.

Any Christian leader someone might put up on this board, even Dr. Billy Graham, someone will insist there are bad things about them or their ministry. What did Jesus say in John 17:11? He desires that we become one even as the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit are one.

.

You said, 'hmmm....sounds like Hinn and company I wonder what Christ would have said to 'ol Benny?'

 

[eloidalmanutha]

Originally posted by Ray Berrian:
Boanerges,

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr /> My guess is that you are predisposed to believe all the mantra people have told you.

Any Christian leader someone might put up on this board, even Dr. Billy Graham, someone will insist there are bad things about them or their ministry. What did Jesus say in John 17:11? He desires that we become one even as the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit are one.

.

You said, 'hmmm....sounds like Hinn and company I wonder what Christ would have said to 'ol Benny?' </font>[/QUOTE]John 17:11 is based on that all are unified in Christ Who is the WAY, the TRUTH, and the LIFE. If you are not in way or the truth or the Life, then you are not in Spiritual unity with God.

 

[Ray Berrian]

Bpamerges,

I agree with you.

Ray

 

[Ray Berrian]

Sorry for the misspelling of the personal name. I agree with the person from Michigan who made the statement about John 17:11.

For the most part only the Lord knows who is in His fold/flock of sheep.

 

[Ray Berrian]

In John 17:11 Jesus said that all who who believe and love Christ should receive each other as being one in the Lord, even as the Trinity is one.

Two things are required to be saved. Believing and trusting in Jesus as Lord and Savior as pin pointed in John 3:16 and I believe the other criterion in being a true Christian is to believe that Jesus was and is presently Divine [I John 4:2]

Other areas of Christian development are vital as people grow in Christ but are not essential for a sinners standing before Him saved and in right relationship to Him. There are a lot of Christian in the world who have made their peace with God, and yet their theology might have been accepted as true when in fact it is incorrect.