Asking for scriptural rebuttal to TULIP

[Yeshua1]

I have no problem with the doctrine of election but I do have a problem with the Calvinist interpretation of it... Election is NEVER a remnant, if that is the case then Heaven would not be full... Thank God it is!... But not because of what any of us have done but of what Jesus Christ the Son Of God has done for us... Heaven is full of an unnumbered multitude!... Brother Glen

After numbering the twelve tribes of Israel this is what follows!

Revelation 7:9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;

7:10 And cried with a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our God which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb.

I expect to see you all there even the Calvinist brethren who still think its a remnant, won't they be surprised!

Jesus Himself stated though that narrow is the way, and that few find it, correct?

 

[Particular]

I have no problem with the doctrine of election but I do have a problem with the Calvinist interpretation of it... Election is NEVER a remnant, if that is the case then Heaven would not be full... Thank God it is!... But not because of what any of us have done but of what Jesus Christ the Son Of God has done for us... Heaven is full of an unnumbered multitude!... Brother Glen

After numbering the twelve tribes of Israel this is what follows!

Revelation 7:9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;

7:10 And cried with a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our God which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb.

I expect to see you all there even the Calvinist brethren who still think its a remnant, won't they be surprised!

Are you declaring yourself as a universalist?

 

[Yeshua1]

Are you declaring yourself as a universalist?

Hope not, as the Bible teaches neither that or annihilation!

 

[InTheLight]

Are you declaring yourself as a universalist?

Might I suggest "Hooked on Phonics?"

It's a proven, simple and fun method to teach critical reading skills.

 

[Revmitchell]

Might I suggest "Hooked on Phonics?"

It's a proven, simple and fun method to teach critical reading skills.

Every thread he/she/it gets involved in they try to make a mess of it.

 

[tyndale1946]

Are you declaring yourself as a universalist?

I don't want to derail this thread but define what you mean by the term Universalist?... If you were addressing me?... Brother Glen

 

[InTheLight]

Every thread he/she/it gets involved in they try to make a mess of it.

Oh, you've noticed too?

If it's not an outright strawman it's a misinterpretation of someone's post.

 

[Wesley Briggman]

Being a Calvinist is not like being a Lutheran. There is no Concord to follow. Calvinist refers to the soteriological tenets of Calvin's followers as outlined in TULIP. I don't know of any person who directly follows all that Calvin wrote. It would be more accurate for the OP to state he does not follow the Reformed Church, Christian Reformed Church, Presbyterian Church, etc, than to say he doesn't follow Calvin because he was an anti-semite. His statement makes no logical sense.

Your post does not address the challenge of my OP. You left out your scriptural reference to refute TULIP. Still pliantly waiting.

 

[37818]

Saved by Grace alone thru faith alone.

So it is conditional on God's elect to be saved and saved without merit on God's elect's part.

 

[Wesley Briggman]

Still do see one post containing a passage/reference to scripture refuting TULIP. Surely there must be at least one that all anti-TULIP believers can agree on!!

 

[37818]

Still do see one post containing a passage/reference to scripture refuting TULIP. Surely there must be at least one that all anti-TULIP believers can agree on!!

1 Peter 1:2, "Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, . . ."

 

[MB]

While I believe TULIP is supported via scripture, I do not consider myself a Calvinist because of his anti-Semitic views.

TULIP

T of TULIP Total Depravity (also known as Total Inability and Original Sin)


[Isa 64:6 ESV] 6 We have all become like one who is unclean, and all our righteous deeds are like a polluted garment. We all fade like a leaf, and our iniquities, like the wind, take us away..


[Jer 17:9 ESV] 9 The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately sick; who can understand it?

Actually neither of the passages you provided support total inability. The never once says man is unable to come to Him

U of TULIP Unconditional Election

Rom 8:28 - 30 ESV - And we know that for those who love God all things work together for good, for those who are called according to his purpose. For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the firstborn among many brothers. And those whom he predestined he also called, and those whom he called he also justified, and those whom he justified he also glorified.

Not once in scripture does it ever say a Gentile is elect

L of TULIP Limited Atonement (also known as Particular Atonement)

[Jhn 10:3-4 ESV] 3 To him the gatekeeper opens. The sheep hear his voice, and he calls his own sheep by name and leads them out. 4 When he has brought out all his own, he goes before them, and the sheep follow him, for they know his voice.

[1Co 15:23 ESV] 23 But each in his own order: Christ the firstfruits, then at his coming those who belong to Christ.

[Phl 3:12 ESV] 12 Not that I have already obtained this or am already perfect, but I press on to make it my own, because Christ Jesus has made me his own.

Please notice that none of the scriptures you have provided express limited atonement

I of TULIP Irresistible Grace

[Jhn 6:37-40 ESV] 37 All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never cast out. 38 For I have come down from heaven, not to do my own will but the will of him who sent me. 39 And this is the will of him who sent me, that I should lose nothing of all that he has given me, but raise it up on the last day. 40 For this is the will of my Father, that everyone who looks on the Son and believes in him should have eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day."


[Tit 3:5-7 ESV] 5 he saved us, not because of works done by us in righteousness, but according to his own mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewal of the Holy Spirit, 6 whom he poured out on us richly through Jesus Christ our Savior, 7 so that being justified by his grace we might become heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

Many have resisted Christ . The Jew resisted Him and rejected Him and crucified Him So God grace is resistible

[/QUOTE]
P of TULIP Perseverance of the Saints (also known as Once Saved Always Saved)

[Eph 1:13-14 ESV] 13 In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit, 14 who is the guarantee of our inheritance until we acquire possession of it, to the praise of his glory.

[Eph 4:30 ESV] 30 And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption.



EXTRA, EXTRA. Read all about it!!

Regardless of the efforts of professing Christian working in the name of Christ, if they are not born-again as His child, they will not enter the kingdom of heaven. They exercised their will while not in submission to His will.


[Mat 7:21-23 ESV] 21 "Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22 On that day many will say to me, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?' 23 And then will I declare to them, 'I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.'



Anti-Semitism of the "Church Fathers"

Their [the Jews] rotten and unbending stiffneckedness deserves that they be oppressed unendingly and without measure or end and that they die in their misery without the pity of anyone.

Excerpt from "Ad Quaelstiones et Objecta Juaei Cuiusdam Responsio," by John Calvi

[/QUOTE]
perseverance of the saints is works to keep being saved. No works no Salvation
MB

 

[1689Dave]

There is no scripture that supports Calvinism. There is no such thing as original sin or total depravity. There are no elect Gentiles in scripture. The Atonement is not limited to the elect.God's grace is not irresistible.Salvation is eternal. There is no stopping eternal.
I have a Question for you. Prove Calvinism with scripture alone first ?
MB

You cannot prove it to anyone who doesn't know first hand how pathetically sinful and undeserving they are.

 

[Yeshua1]

Actually neither of the passages you provided support total inability. The never once says man is unable to come to Him


Not once in scripture does it ever say a Gentile is elect


Please notice that none of the scriptures you have provided express limited atonement



Many have resisted Christ . The Jew resisted Him and rejected Him and crucified Him So God grace is resistible

P of TULIP Perseverance of the Saints (also known as Once Saved Always Saved)

[Eph 1:13-14 ESV] 13 In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit, 14 who is the guarantee of our inheritance until we acquire possession of it, to the praise of his glory.

[Eph 4:30 ESV] 30 And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption.



EXTRA, EXTRA. Read all about it!!

Regardless of the efforts of professing Christian working in the name of Christ, if they are not born-again as His child, they will not enter the kingdom of heaven. They exercised their will while not in submission to His will.


[Mat 7:21-23 ESV] 21 "Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22 On that day many will say to me, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?' 23 And then will I declare to them, 'I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.'



Anti-Semitism of the "Church Fathers"

Their [the Jews] rotten and unbending stiffneckedness deserves that they be oppressed unendingly and without measure or end and that they die in their misery without the pity of anyone.

Excerpt from "Ad Quaelstiones et Objecta Juaei Cuiusdam Responsio," by John Calvi

[/QUOTE]
perseverance of the saints is works to keep being saved. No works no Salvation
MB[/QUOTE]
Lost sinnersd keep on resisting and rejecting Jesus to save them, but none who are one of the elect ever shall, as they know his voice and are one of his sheep!

 

[Yeshua1]

1 Peter 1:2, "Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, . . ."

Actually, ties into Romans 8, as salvation from start to finish is all of God!

 

[Revmitchell]

Oh, you've noticed too?

If it's not an outright strawman it's a misinterpretation of someone's post.

Yep and it looks almost as if its on purpose.

 

[George Antonios]

While I believe TULIP is supported via scripture, I do not consider myself a Calvinist because of his anti-Semitic views.

TULIP

T of TULIP Total Depravity (also known as Total Inability and Original Sin)


[Isa 64:6 ESV] 6 We have all become like one who is unclean, and all our righteous deeds are like a polluted garment. We all fade like a leaf, and our iniquities, like the wind, take us away..


[Jer 17:9 ESV] 9 The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately sick; who can understand it?



U of TULIP Unconditional Election

Rom 8:28 - 30 ESV - And we know that for those who love God all things work together for good, for those who are called according to his purpose. For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the firstborn among many brothers. And those whom he predestined he also called, and those whom he called he also justified, and those whom he justified he also glorified.


L of TULIP Limited Atonement (also known as Particular Atonement)

[Jhn 10:3-4 ESV] 3 To him the gatekeeper opens. The sheep hear his voice, and he calls his own sheep by name and leads them out. 4 When he has brought out all his own, he goes before them, and the sheep follow him, for they know his voice.

[1Co 15:23 ESV] 23 But each in his own order: Christ the firstfruits, then at his coming those who belong to Christ.

[Phl 3:12 ESV] 12 Not that I have already obtained this or am already perfect, but I press on to make it my own, because Christ Jesus has made me his own.


I of TULIP Irresistible Grace

[Jhn 6:37-40 ESV] 37 All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never cast out. 38 For I have come down from heaven, not to do my own will but the will of him who sent me. 39 And this is the will of him who sent me, that I should lose nothing of all that he has given me, but raise it up on the last day. 40 For this is the will of my Father, that everyone who looks on the Son and believes in him should have eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day."


[Tit 3:5-7 ESV] 5 he saved us, not because of works done by us in righteousness, but according to his own mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewal of the Holy Spirit, 6 whom he poured out on us richly through Jesus Christ our Savior, 7 so that being justified by his grace we might become heirs according to the hope of eternal life.


P of TULIP Perseverance of the Saints (also known as Once Saved Always Saved)

[Eph 1:13-14 ESV] 13 In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit, 14 who is the guarantee of our inheritance until we acquire possession of it, to the praise of his glory.

[Eph 4:30 ESV] 30 And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption.



EXTRA, EXTRA. Read all about it!!

Regardless of the efforts of professing Christian working in the name of Christ, if they are not born-again as His child, they will not enter the kingdom of heaven. They exercised their will while not in submission to His will.


[Mat 7:21-23 ESV] 21 "Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22 On that day many will say to me, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?' 23 And then will I declare to them, 'I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.'



Anti-Semitism of the "Church Fathers"

Their [the Jews] rotten and unbending stiffneckedness deserves that they be oppressed unendingly and without measure or end and that they die in their misery without the pity of anyone.

Excerpt from "Ad Quaelstiones et Objecta Juaei Cuiusdam Responsio," by John Calvin

Those verses pro

While I believe TULIP is supported via scripture, I do not consider myself a Calvinist because of his anti-Semitic views.

TULIP

T of TULIP Total Depravity (also known as Total Inability and Original Sin)


[Isa 64:6 ESV] 6 We have all become like one who is unclean, and all our righteous deeds are like a polluted garment. We all fade like a leaf, and our iniquities, like the wind, take us away..


[Jer 17:9 ESV] 9 The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately sick; who can understand it?



U of TULIP Unconditional Election

Rom 8:28 - 30 ESV - And we know that for those who love God all things work together for good, for those who are called according to his purpose. For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the firstborn among many brothers. And those whom he predestined he also called, and those whom he called he also justified, and those whom he justified he also glorified.


L of TULIP Limited Atonement (also known as Particular Atonement)

[Jhn 10:3-4 ESV] 3 To him the gatekeeper opens. The sheep hear his voice, and he calls his own sheep by name and leads them out. 4 When he has brought out all his own, he goes before them, and the sheep follow him, for they know his voice.

[1Co 15:23 ESV] 23 But each in his own order: Christ the firstfruits, then at his coming those who belong to Christ.

[Phl 3:12 ESV] 12 Not that I have already obtained this or am already perfect, but I press on to make it my own, because Christ Jesus has made me his own.


I of TULIP Irresistible Grace

[Jhn 6:37-40 ESV] 37 All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never cast out. 38 For I have come down from heaven, not to do my own will but the will of him who sent me. 39 And this is the will of him who sent me, that I should lose nothing of all that he has given me, but raise it up on the last day. 40 For this is the will of my Father, that everyone who looks on the Son and believes in him should have eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day."


[Tit 3:5-7 ESV] 5 he saved us, not because of works done by us in righteousness, but according to his own mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewal of the Holy Spirit, 6 whom he poured out on us richly through Jesus Christ our Savior, 7 so that being justified by his grace we might become heirs according to the hope of eternal life.


P of TULIP Perseverance of the Saints (also known as Once Saved Always Saved)

[Eph 1:13-14 ESV] 13 In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit, 14 who is the guarantee of our inheritance until we acquire possession of it, to the praise of his glory.

[Eph 4:30 ESV] 30 And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption.



EXTRA, EXTRA. Read all about it!!

Regardless of the efforts of professing Christian working in the name of Christ, if they are not born-again as His child, they will not enter the kingdom of heaven. They exercised their will while not in submission to His will.


[Mat 7:21-23 ESV] 21 "Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22 On that day many will say to me, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?' 23 And then will I declare to them, 'I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.'



Anti-Semitism of the "Church Fathers"

Their [the Jews] rotten and unbending stiffneckedness deserves that they be oppressed unendingly and without measure or end and that they die in their misery without the pity of anyone.

Excerpt from "Ad Quaelstiones et Objecta Juaei Cuiusdam Responsio," by John Calvin

Ok, how about this for refuting total depravity:

"For I know that in me (that is, in my FLESH,) dwelleth no good thing: for to WILL is PRESENT with ME" (Ro.7:18).

The WILL is a function of the SPIRIT, not of the FLESH: "every one whom his SPIRIT made WILLING" (EX.35:21)

Please note that in the Old Testament, no one was "born again" and anyway, we are told that almost all the people, if not all, were WILLING - are you gonna make all that generation that did not persevere in the wilderness, born again? No.

So there you have it. A lost man is depraved, even in his will, but total depravity does not mean his spirit cannot choose righteousness or choose to believe God.

 

[Yeshua1]

Those verses pro


Ok, how about this for refuting total depravity:

"For I know that in me (that is, in my FLESH,) dwelleth no good thing: for to WILL is PRESENT with ME" (Ro.7:18).

The WILL is a function of the SPIRIT, not of the FLESH: "every one whom his SPIRIT made WILLING" (EX.35:21)

Please note that in the Old Testament, no one was "born again" and anyway, and we are told that almost all the people, if not all, were WILLING - are you gonna make all that generation that did not persevere in the wilderness, born again? No.

So there you have it. A lost man is depraved, even in his will, but total depravity does not mean his spirit cannot choose righteousness or choose to believe God.

Means that they are slaves to their sin natures, which will continue to reject Jesus to save them from their sins!

 

[George Antonios]

Means that they are slaves to their sin natures, which will continue to reject Jesus to save them from their sins!

Please quote scriptures rather than philosophical talking points and address the scriptural points made in the post.

 

[atpollard]

Still pliantly waiting.

You have been waiting patiently and, although I am a Particular Baptists, I feel bad for you and would like to give it a shot ...

[Phl 3:12 ESV] 12 Not that I have already obtained this or am already perfect, but I press on to make it my own, because Christ Jesus has made me his own.

This verse sort of cuts both ways, does it not? I mean clearly it states that "Christ Jesus has made me his own", but that is not presented as the prime mover (the great causing force) in this scripture. Rather, the fact that "Christ Jesus has made me his own" is the MOTIVATION ("because") for what comes before. What comes before in that sentence is not rest in an assurance of a finished work, but "I press on to make it my own".

"I press on to make it my own" is a declaration of human effort and human will to obtain what has not already been obtained. Is that really 100% monergism?

So how is that?
Does it serve your needs?