Assorted Eschatological Teaching

[SovereignGrace]

Thanks for the chart, as it helps to simplify things a bit.

For the record, I have come to see # 1 in my own private studies;
But was taught # 2 for the first 28 years that I have been a believer.

You’re welcome.

I’m somewhere between 3 and 4 on that chart. Leaning towards postmillennialism but I’ve much to learn, much to learn.

 

[37818]

2 Corinthians 4:3-4, ". . . But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost: In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them. . . ."
Matthew 13:19, ". . . When any one heareth the word of the kingdom, and understandeth it not, then cometh the wicked one, and catcheth away that which was sown in his heart. This is he which received seed by the way side. . . ."
Revelation 20:2-3, ". . . And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years, And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, . . ."

Matthew 24:7, ". . . For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places. . . ."

Matthew 24: ,". . . gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come. . . ."

 

[Dave G]

I’m somewhere between 3 and 4 on that chart. Leaning towards postmillennialism but I’ve much to learn, much to learn.

If I may ask, where are you learning it from, Willis?
May I recommend ignoring the commentaries, and focusing on the Bible alone, my friend?

To me, it really should be enough.

 

[SovereignGrace]

If I may ask, where are you learning it from, Willis?
May I recommend ignoring the commentaries, and focusing on the Bible alone, my friend?

To me, it really should be enough.

I am using commentaries along with my Bible. But I can read the Olivet Discourse and just by reading the words of the Christ, know that He was referring to the destruction of Jerusalem and the temple in AD 70.

 

[SovereignGrace]

If I may ask, where are you learning it from, Willis?
May I recommend ignoring the commentaries, and focusing on the Bible alone, my friend?

To me, it really should be enough.

From my NASB alone…The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave Him to show to His bond-servants, the things which must soon take place;[Revelation 1:1a] Soon does not mean millennia later. But I’m not a full Preterist.

 

[Dave G]

I am using commentaries along with my Bible.

I confess that I dropped commentaries years ago, after being persuaded that I did not need them.

I strongly recommend to all of my brothers and sisters in the Lord that they do the same...
Simply because we can go to the well for ourselves on any given subject, and we have the promise of the Spirit as our Teacher.

But I can read the Olivet Discourse and just by reading the words of the Christ, know that He was referring to the destruction of Jerusalem and the temple in AD 70.

Of that, I can see that we agree.

 

[1689Dave]

We know from Luke 24:45 and other passages ( 1 Corinthians 2:6-16, 1 John 2:20-27 ), that only those whom the Lord has opened their understanding and given His Spirit to, will believe and understand the Bible.
Only those who are "of God" will hear His words ( John 8:47 ).
Only those whom the Lord has opened their hearts will "attend to" His words ( Acts of the Apostles 16:14 ).

Also, in the light of 2 Timothy 2:24-26, should we be impatient with our brothers and sisters when they ask about things?

If what you say is true ( and after almost 20 years in His word, I don't see it ), then not only is the burden of proof on you to prove it from the Scriptures themselves, my friend, but the burden of the Lord's commands as a teacher are also upon you.

Shall we not keep those things in mind when presenting the subjects that we see in His word?

What we have are people that promote Phariseeism (Premillennialism) and attack the gospel of the kingdom.

 

[1689Dave]

Well, RCC and Greek Orthodox teach amillennialism. Does that make you one of them?

You are saying "millennium" which is 1000 years. Christ's Kingdom is forever.

 

[Dave G]

From my NASB alone…The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave Him to show to His bond-servants, the things which must soon take place;[Revelation 1:1a] Soon does not mean millennia later. But I’m not a full Preterist.

I can see that we disagree, and it's not my place to tell you how you should understand the Scriptures on any given subject.
But I will be glad to lay it out for you in private, should you wish to compare notes.

 

[37818]

View attachment 5546

In each group, clearly there is a millennium. So I’m not adding to God’s word. Each group teaches a millennium, and amillennialism and postmillennialism teach the millennium is going on now.

#3 on that chart is problematically vague in regards to the millennium and now. Unless one is a full Perterist.

 

[1689Dave]

All I’m saying is the kingdom of God was during Jesus’ earthly ministry, and I gave you proof He taught it. However you view it is upon you.

You are wrong. The kingdom is forever.

 

[SovereignGrace]

I confess that I dropped commentaries years ago, after being persuaded that I did not need them.

I strongly recommend to all of my brothers and sisters in the Lord that they do the same...
Simply because we can go to the well for ourselves on any given subject, and we have the promise of the Spirit as our Teacher.

But that does not mean we eschew others’ teachings. That’s not what Ephesians 4 teaches. We come together as a local body of believers to praise and worship God and to learn from His word.

It’s like someone who want to be a police officer/state trooper. They don’t go and they just hand them a bunch of uniforms, a gun belt, gun, badge, cruiser and turn them loose. They go to an police academy and they teach them all that being an officer of the law entails.

Same with church. We come together as a local body to learn His word and to praise and worship Him.

Of that, I can see that we agree.

Good!

BTW, how can I separate a post and in each portion it have their username? I can’t figure out how to do that.

 

[SovereignGrace]

You are saying "millennium" which is 1000 years. Christ's Kingdom is forever.

Well, the RCC and Greek Orthodox teach amillennialism. Which one are you?

 

[Dave G]

What we have are people that promote Phariseeism (Premillennialism) and attack the gospel of the kingdom.

Dave,
Respectfully, what I see is someone who sees what he has come to believe, and is arguing with those who don't see it the way that he does.

Should you not present God's word on the subect, and let the reader decide?

 

[SovereignGrace]

You are wrong. The kingdom is forever.

I never it said it wasn’t forever. I said it came down to man.

 

[SovereignGrace]

Dave,
Respectfully, what I see is someone who sees what he has come to believe, and is arguing with those who don't see it the way that he does.

Should you not present God's word on the subect, and let the reader decide?

His view of amillennialism is not the mainstream view of it.

 

[Dave G]

But that does not mean we eschew others’ teachings. That’s not what Ephesians 4 teaches. We come together as a local body of believers to praise and worship God and to learn from His word.

It’s like someone who want to be a police officer/state trooper. They don’t go and they just hand them a bunch of uniforms, a gun belt, gun, badge, cruiser and turn them loose. They go to an police academy and they teach them all that being an officer of the law entails.

I agree.
But who runs the "academy"?

Same with church. We come together as a local body to learn His word and to praise and worship Him.

Who determines what the local body of believers teaches, and who they are composed of?

 

[1689Dave]

Well, the RCC and Greek Orthodox teach amillennialism. Which one are you?

Isn't it odd that the worst offenders have more truth in this matter than the run-of-the-mill Church goer? Although, it takes a Baptist understanding of the Church to accurately present Amillennialism.

 

[SovereignGrace]

Dave,
Respectfully, what I see is someone who sees what he has come to believe, and is arguing with those who don't see it the way that he does.

Should you not present God's word on the subect, and let the reader decide?

Well, when you can convince me that John 5:28-29 and Matthew 25:31-46 have resurrections that are roughly 1,007 years apart…

 

[1689Dave]

His view of amillennialism is not the mainstream view of it.

The mainstream view is off in some areas. It needs to be corrected by the Baptist church polity.