Attn: Pastors

[kathleenmariekg]

I do not understand this attack on preachers for doing what has been traditionally done since the beginning. It is a good thing Paul did not call the epistles "mine" and get offended if others used them in any way they thought might be for good. I have seen books that are called "sermon outlines". I know that some professors expected their students to use the course notes as sermon outlines.

Secular definitions of plagiarism have no place in the church. The church is not a for-profit publisher or private university. Its mission is not pride or profit.

This topic is making me sick this week. I am studying academic writing, and instead of professors and websites teaching students to write, they spend 3/4 of lessons on citation and plagiarism, and much of the remaining time and resources on formatting the paper in software. Of course those young preachers can't preach! Look what they spent all their seminary time on!

 

[AustinC]

I do not understand this attack on preachers for doing what has been traditionally done since the beginning. It is a good thing Paul did not call the epistles "mine" and get offended if others used them in any way they thought might be for good. I have seen books that are called "sermon outlines". I know that some professors expected their students to use the course notes as sermon outlines.

Secular definitions of plagiarism have no place in the church. The church is not a for-profit publisher or private university. Its mission is not pride or profit.

This topic is making me sick this week. I am studying academic writing, and instead of professors and websites teaching students to write, they spend 3/4 of lessons on citation and plagiarism, and much of the remaining time and resources on formatting the paper in software. Of course those young preachers can't preach! Look what they spent all their seminary time on!

To your last paragraph, it is unfortunate how many people will purchase a paper rather than do their own research. Since there are now companies offering to help cheat, for a price, it has become a necessary evil to teach people how to cite their sources and meet academic standards.
Hopefully, those who love to write will continue on their own without the pull of academia to distract them.

To your first paragraph, I agree that the work of others can be very helpful. But, those writings should come after we have done the hard work of observation, questioning and answering those questions ourselves. Once we do our own work, we can consult the experts and see how they answered their observations. When we find that others have a particularly good insight, we should use it and let others know about where we found it.

 

[Scripture More Accurately]

Scripture seems to show that acknowledging your source at least in a general sense is a proper practice:

Titus 1:12 One of themselves, even a prophet of their own, said, The Cretians are alway liars, evil beasts, slow bellies. 13 This witness is true. Wherefore rebuke them sharply, that they may be sound in the faith;

Paul could have just said, "The Cretians are alway liars, evil beasts, slow bellies. 13 This witness is true. Wherefore rebuke them sharply, that they may be sound in the faith;" and left out the information about his using a source, but he did not do that.

 

[thomas15]

Six years ago I took a community college English Composition class for personal enrichment. A large percent of our final grade rested on a research paper. The professor took great pains to inform us that our papers would be scanned into a database which would check for originality and would also put our work into the database to check future submissions for plagiarism. Going from memory this is one of the reasons why style and format is so important, to allow the database to scan the work.

This weighed heavy on my decision on the topic I choose for my paper. I picked one that I was fairly certain was uncharted. My paper was heavy with footnotes. While I drew conclusions that were of my own opinion, it was based on the work of others, it has to be.

Still, I personally want my pastor to preach that which the Lord has laid on his heart, not what the Lord has laid on someone else's heart. Citing others is one thing, repeating word for word with no credit is another.

Having said that I'm not convinced that being a good preacher is a necessary skill for an administrator or executive officer of a company or in this case a convention of local churches. I do see honesty and integrity as necessary though. The owner of my company has a good business sense and administrative skills but not a full understanding of the technical aspects of our product. Sometimes, engineers (and in this case theologians) can get lost in the fog of the details.

 

[AustinC]

Six years ago I took a community college English Composition class for personal enrichment. A large percent of our final grade rested on a research paper. The professor took great pains to inform us that our papers would be scanned into a database which would check for originality and would also put our work into the database to check future submissions for plagiarism. Going from memory this is one of the reasons why style and format is so important, to allow the database to scan the work.

This weighed heavy on my decision on the topic I choose for my paper. I picked one that I was fairly certain was uncharted. My paper was heavy with footnotes. While I drew conclusions that were of my own opinion, it was based on the work of others, it has to be.

Still, I personally want my pastor to preach that which the Lord has laid on his heart, not what the Lord has laid on someone else's heart. Citing others is one thing, repeating word for word with no credit is another.

Having said that I'm not convinced that being a good preacher is a necessary skill for an administrator or executive officer of a company or in this case a convention of local churches. I do see honesty and integrity as necessary though. The owner of my company has a good business sense and administrative skills but not a full understanding of the technical aspects of our product. Sometimes, engineers (and in this case theologians) can get lost in the fog of the details.

I would shy away from comparing the church to a company. The local church should never be run like a corporate entity and it's elders should never view their role as a board member of a corporation. Such behavior will short change the flock.

 

[Scripture More Accurately]

Two more passages that I think establish the need to give credit when using original materials from other sources:

1 Samuel 24:13 As saith the proverb of the ancients, Wickedness proceedeth from the wicked: but mine hand shall not be upon thee.

Acts 17:28 For in him we live, and move, and have our being; as certain also of your own poets have said, For we are also his offspring.

Adding what these passages show to Titus 1:12 (which I shared earlier) seems clearly to me to make this point.

Titus 1:12 One of themselves, even a prophet of their own, said, The Cretians are alway liars, evil beasts, slow bellies.

It is instructive that no one is specifically credited by name in any of these 3 passages but credit is still given.

 

[Yeshua1]

It is good to be aware that copying or using the material of others is not something new. Probably just much more noticeable and comparable in the internet world. As I mentioned on another thread, when I was a young preacher it was common for preachers to put their outlines in booklets and encourage young preachers to buy and use them (may still be common). Also, I am aware of preachers who are members of or subscribe to online services for sermon material (not sure just how it works). And there are resources like this one. Some may just be looking for ideas, but I am sure others are just regurgitating what they find.

On the other hand, we all need not be too heady and high-minded, as even in our own study we are learning from others, and pass on what we learned. Just yesterday I was searching on the radio for someone other than John MacArthur and Charles Stanley, and ran across my old friend J. Vernon McGee. He was driving the Bible Bus through Matthew chapter 2 and mentioned that when Herold demanded where Jesus would be born, the priests and scribes didn't have to hunt for it -- they knew. I have mentioned that many times when teaching on Matthew 2, and I realized I must have got that from McGee when I was a young preacher (maybe before I was a preacher). I doubt I have ever credited him for it.

We do not need copycatism and lazyism in our pulpits, but we do pass on what others taught us (2 Timothy 2:2). Perhaps there is a fine line here.

many times, we are indeed building upon the foundation others laid in the Body for us to learn and teach with!

 

[Yeshua1]

Two more passages that I think establish the need to give credit when using original materials from other sources:

1 Samuel 24:13 As saith the proverb of the ancients, Wickedness proceedeth from the wicked: but mine hand shall not be upon thee.

Acts 17:28 For in him we live, and move, and have our being; as certain also of your own poets have said, For we are also his offspring.

Adding what these passages show to Titus 1:12 (which I shared earlier) seems clearly to me to make this point.

Titus 1:12 One of themselves, even a prophet of their own, said, The Cretians are alway liars, evil beasts, slow bellies.

It is instructive that no one is specifically credited by name in any of these 3 passages but credit is still given.

Any time we knowingly quote or use another teaching or words, should we not acknowledge them?