Babies are righteous?

[Sober_Baptist]

No squiggle room here. Some babies go to heaven, most go to hell. I agree with opening post. It sounds wrong to condemn any babies, I know.

Who was it that said "the road to hell is paved with the bones of dead babies" ?

 

[Brother Bob]

No squiggle room here. Some babies go to heaven, most go to hell. I agree with opening post. It sounds wrong to condemn any babies, I know

No way would this quote line up with how Jesus spoke of the children in the following scripture.

Mar 10:14But when Jesus saw [it], he was much displeased, and said unto them, Suffer the little children to come unto me, and forbid them not: for of such is the kingdom of God.

Who was it that said "the road to hell is paved with the bones of dead babies" ?

I don't know who said it but I consider it "hogwash".

"Such is the Kingdom of Heaven".

Even from birth the wicked go astray; from the womb they are wayward and speak lies.

"speak" has a lot to do with explaining this scripture. I have never heard a baby speak when born, and of course it is after it comes from the womb that it speaks lies, but only when it grows enough to know what a lie is.

(a lie is to attempt to decieve someone and you would have to be old enough to have some understanding before you could attempt to decieve.)

 

[npetreley]

Who was it that said "the road to hell is paved with the bones of dead babies" ?

I googled it and found nothing. I did find tons of hits on "The road to hell is paved with good intentions".

 

[johnp.]

I have never heard a baby speak when born, and of course it is after it comes from the womb that it speaks lies, but only when it grows enough to know what a lie is.

Cool. Changing scripture? It says from the womb does it not? Do you mind explaining the verse please as you do not take it at face value? Even from birth the wicked go astray; from the womb they are wayward and speak lies. PS 58:3.

That is what it says what does it mean Brother Bob?

"The road to hell is paved with good intentions".

Same here.

john.

 

[Brother Bob]

Cool. Changing scripture? It says from the womb does it not? Do you mind explaining the verse please as you do not take it at face value? Even from birth the wicked go astray; from the womb they are wayward and speak lies. PS 58:3.

That is what it says what does it mean Brother Bob?

I am not changing scripture, it has to be after it comes from the womb. Please notice that the scripture says "go astray" which means to me that it must be born not gone astray but sometime afterwards the wicked does go astray..

Isa 53:6All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.

The Bible don't cross itself and I think Jesus put it into context for us by the following:


Mat 18:3And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven.

Notice He didn't say this little child but "little children".

A child is born with the appointment of death pronounced upon it (natural death), but if it is born spiritually dead, then how can the "soul that sinneth shall die", if it is already dead spiritually?

 

[webdog]

God's requirements square with His nature, which are just and righteous.

Since God takes their life(prematurely from our view) is He required to give them eternal life or not webdog?

john.

first, who are we to say who's life is taken prematurely or not, and second, according to Romans 5, yes God gives them eternal life.

 

[webdog]

No squiggle room here. Some babies go to heaven, most go to hell. I agree with opening post. It sounds wrong to condemn any babies, I know.

Who was it that said "the road to hell is paved with the bones of dead babies" ?

Garbage. :BangHead:

 

[johnp.]

I am not changing scripture, it has to be after it comes from the womb.

Yes you are, it says from not after which gives the meaning that from the womb they are wayward and speak lies.

...which means to me that it must be born not gone astray...

Even from birth the wicked go astray... Not later but from birth, for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God... Rom 3:23.

A child is born with the appointment of death pronounced upon it (natural death),...

There is nothing natural about death it is a punishment for sin. Rom 6:23 For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

...but if it is born spiritually dead, then how can the "soul that sinneth shall die", if it is already dead spiritually?

REV 2:11 He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. He who overcomes will not be hurt at all by the second death.


john.

 

[Brother Bob]

I am not changing scripture, it has to be after it comes from the womb.
Yes you are, it says from not after which gives the meaning that from the womb they are wayward and speak lies.

From the womb doesn't change anything it still say "goes astray", which has to mean that it was not "astray" when it was born. Now you think that means right there at birth but I do not, for a baby can't speak lies. I guess you have heard babies speak lies to believe what you do.

Again, the way you read the scripture is against what Jesus says.

Mat 18:3And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven.

REV 2:11 He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. He who overcomes will not be hurt at all by the second death.

I have no idea what this has to do with this subject, except the spiritually dead unless made alive in Christ Jesus, will face the second death ,but to be spiritual dead, you have to sin, which babies don't sin. Where there is no Law, there is no transgression.

If you are completely honest you will have to admit the scripture says "goes" astray, not that it is born "astray". If it goes astray, then it is some time from the womb.

I am sure you know what I meant by natural death, but just in case you don't, you will find it in the following scripture.

1Cr 15:44It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.

 

[npetreley]

For what it's worth, the word (compound word) translated "they go astray" are translated as "they err" more often.

08582 ta`ah {taw-aw'}
a primitive root; TWOT - 2531; v
AV - err 17, astray 12, wander 10, seduced 3, stagger 2,
out of the way 2, away 1, deceived 1, misc 2; 50
1) to err, wander, go astray, stagger
(strong's number 8582)

 

[johnp.]

Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven.

Easy to teach that's all that means. You say we must be saved and then become like little children, what's that then, innocent? You are innocent are you? And what if you are? According to God innocence is no excuse, JOB 9:15 Though I were innocent, I could not answer him; I could only plead with my Judge for mercy.
You have failed to deal with this Bob, as all the others have failed.

john.

 

[Brother Bob]

Either way, that scripture is telling us that when it was born, it was not astray, or in error, or wandered, or seduced, or out of the way. It had to "go" to ever which one is the right translation.

 

[johnp.]

webdog.

first, who are we to say who's life is taken prematurely or not

It's just a common expression, you earned a point.

and second, according to Romans 5, yes God gives them eternal life.

I see nothing there to worry about.

Some babies go to heaven, most go to hell.

Garbage.

God would not be Sovereign if He could not send a child to Hell, but they will be of age when He does.
God would not be Sovereign if He did send a child to Hell because He had to prove He can.

The scriptures are quite clear on the subject, faith comes by hearing and hearing comes by Christ. If a person does not hear the word of God they are reprobated. The bible makes no distinction of age and those that claim it are out of scripture and need rebuking for making up fairly stories and giving them the name of Christian belief. Adding to scripture is a serious offence. The ones that believe in an age of responsibility with no reason from scripture are like those people in the wilderness, they do not trust God to know better than themselves.

john.

 

[Brother Bob]

Easy to teach that's all that means. You say we must be saved and then become like little children, what's that then, innocent? You are innocent are you? And what if you are? According to God innocence is no excuse, JOB 9:15 Though I were innocent, I could not answer him; I could only plead with my Judge for mercy.
You have failed to deal with this Bob, as all the others have failed.

Well, John I don't know how you believe about what is "born again", but I believe it to be the inner man who has the mind of Christ and has been cleansed up and inwardly we are clean and when death comes the inward part will go to Heaven at death. It is only the body that will go in the grave.

 

[johnp.]

Either way, that scripture is telling us that when it was born, it was not astray, or in error, or wandered, or seduced, or out of the way. It had to "go" to ever which one is the right translation.

From the womb means what, 8 years, 10 years what?

From the moment the shot was taken it went astray. PS 51:5 Surely I was sinful at birth, sinful from the time my mother conceived me.

JOB 9:15 Though I were innocent, I could not answer him; I could only plead with my Judge for mercy. You have failed to deal with this Bob, as all the others have failed.

It is only the body that will go in the grave.

Not for long.

john.

 

[Brother Bob]

From the womb means what, 8 years, 10 years what?

Now that I can not answer but it is when they have enough knowledge to know to do good and do it not.


Rom 1:18 ¶ For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;
Rom 1:19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed [it] unto them.
Rom 1:20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, [even] his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
Rom 1:21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified [him] not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
Rom 1:22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,

Psalms, psalm 51

5: Behold, I was shapen in iniquity; and in sin did my mother conceive me.

He was not there when the conception took place, it was the mother and father.

 

[johnp.]

Rom 1:18 ¶ For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;
Rom 1:19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed [it] unto them.
Rom 1:20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, [even] his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
Rom 1:21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified [him] not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
Rom 1:22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,

Thats right. Now to the point please. JOB 9:15 Though I were innocent, I could not answer him; I could only plead with my Judge for mercy. You have failed to deal with this Bob, as all the others have failed.

john.

 

[Brother Bob]

Thats right. Now to the point please. JOB 9:15 Though I were innocent, I could not answer him; I could only plead with my Judge for mercy. You have failed to deal with this Bob, as all the others have failed.

john

Your point please?

I have answered ever thing you have asked so far.

What Bible are you using?

Rom 1:18 ¶ For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;
Rom 1:19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed [it] unto them.
Rom 1:20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, [even] his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
Rom 1:21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified [him] not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
Rom 1:22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,

You think the above scriptures are talking to infants?

 

[johnp.]

I use the NIV why? Job 9:15 Whom, though I were righteous, yet would I not answer, but I would make supplication to my judge.

I have answered ever thing you have asked so far.

I asked you to deal with this verse, JOB 9:15 Though I were innocent, I could not answer him; I could only plead with my Judge for mercy.

What's innocence to do with guilt? Explain the verse to me it says to me that mercy is still required for the innocent, even the righteous, (KJV).

You think the above scriptures are talking to infants?

No, I thought you were calling me.

john.

 

[Brother Bob]

I asked you to deal with this verse, JOB 9:15 Though I were innocent, I could not answer him; I could only plead with my Judge for mercy.

What's innocence to do with guilt? Explain the verse to me it says to me that mercy is still required for the innocent, even the righteous, (KJV).

I hope I did not give the impression that infants can go to Heaven without the Lord, and that is how I explain Job 9:15. Regardless of our good deeds it will not take us to Heaven, it still takes the Grace of God.
Infants still need the Love of God to get them to Heaven or they would be in the Grave for ever, for they have not done anything to take them to hell, and they can't do anything to take them to Heaven, it takes the Lord.