Babies destroyed for science

[blackbird]

But he is going to use your tax money anyway just as he is in foreign countries to support the murder of the unborn.

Mine & yours, Old Regular!!!! Mine & yours!!!!

:tear: :tear:

What'd Jesus say------somebody find that verse for me

"It would be better if a millstone is tied around their neck and be cast into the depths of the sea---than to harm one of these children!!!!"

Somebody find that verse for me---I'm not near my Bible----I ought to be--but I'm not!!

 

[JustChristian]

But he is going to use your tax money anyway just as he is in foreign countries to support the murder of the unborn.

As far as I am concerned an abortionist is worse than Hitler or Stalin or Mao or Pol Pot. At least most of the people murdered by these men had an opportunity to resist. Unborn children can't, though there are ultrasounds showing babies trying to avoid their murderer's knife.

YOU support the murder of the unborn if you support test tube babies.

 

[StefanM]

But he is going to use your tax money anyway just as he is in foreign countries to support the murder of the unborn.

As far as I am concerned an abortionist is worse than Hitler or Stalin or Mao or Pol Pot. At least most of the people murdered by these men had an opportunity to resist. Unborn children can't, though there are ultrasounds showing babies trying to avoid their murderer's knife.

Not all abortions occur at later stages. In the case of stem cell research, there is no pain or awareness, as the embryo has not developed yet.

To insist that an abortionist is worse than Hitler is extreme an insensitive, especially when you are considering 1st trimester abortions. I'm not justifying abortion, but I don't think diminishing the significance of genocide is the way to fight it.

 

[LadyEagle]

Mine & yours, Old Regular!!!! Mine & yours!!!!

:tear: :tear:

What'd Jesus say------somebody find that verse for me

"It would be better if a millstone is tied around their neck and be cast into the depths of the sea---than to harm one of these children!!!!"

Somebody find that verse for me---I'm not near my Bible----I ought to be--but I'm not!!

Jesus said it: Luke 17:2

It were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and he cast into the sea, than that he should offend one of these little ones.

 

[LadyEagle]

Not all abortions occur at later stages. In the case of stem cell research, there is no pain or awareness, as the embryo has not developed yet.

It's murder. Pain and awareness are beside the point. Babies try to get away from the curet before they are pulled apart in bits and pieces by the suction curet - this has been seen on ultrasound, as previously stated. That would indicate awareness. The pain part is debatable since no embryo can tell us whether or not they feel pain. At any rate, the bottom line is that it is murder of a human life.

And any side discussion about test tube babies is an attempt to muddy the waters in this debate, IMO. I am against it, for the record, if there is any loss of life of any embryo.

 

[Marcia]

Mine & yours, Old Regular!!!! Mine & yours!!!!

:tear: :tear:

What'd Jesus say------somebody find that verse for me

"It would be better if a millstone is tied around their neck and be cast into the depths of the sea---than to harm one of these children!!!!"

Somebody find that verse for me---I'm not near my Bible----I ought to be--but I'm not!!

blackbird, go to biblegateway.com and choose "Keyword search." Then put in "millstone," and the version(s) you want and it will come up.

It's Matt. 18:6. Also in Mark and Luke.

 

[Marcia]

I am against test tube babies and any fertility treatment that allows for the discarding of, freezing or, or destruction of unborn babies, no matter what stage they are in.

 

[LeBuick]

Jesus said it: Luke 17:2

If you read the passage in its entirety (from Mt.), its about causing a new believer to stumble or go into the way of sin. He is characterizing a new Christian to a child. Luke's summary builds on avoiding offending others and if offended, forgive if they ask...

Mt 18:1 At the same time came the disciples unto Jesus, saying, Who is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven?
2 And Jesus called a little child unto him, and set him in the midst of them,
3 And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven.
4 Whosoever therefore shall humble himself as this little child, the same is greatest in the kingdom of heaven.
5 And whoso shall receive one such little child in my name receiveth me.
6 But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea.

Lk 17:1 Then said he unto the disciples, It is impossible but that offences will come: but woe unto him, through whom they come!
2 It were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and he cast into the sea, than that he should offend one of these little ones.
3 Take heed to yourselves: If thy brother trespass against thee, rebuke him; and if he repent, forgive him.
4 And if he trespass against thee seven times in a day, and seven times in a day turn again to thee, saying, I repent; thou shalt forgive him.

 

[LeBuick]

I am against test tube babies and any fertility treatment that allows for the discarding of, freezing or, or destruction of unborn babies, no matter what stage they are in.

I likewise worry about cloning...

 

[windcatcher]

I love the way Matthew presents this instruction:

Mat 18:1 At the same time came the disciples unto Jesus, saying, Who is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven?

Mat 18:2 And Jesus called a little child unto him, and set him in the midst of them,

Mat 18:3 And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven.

Mat 18:4 Whosoever therefore shall humble himself as this little child, the same is greatest in the kingdom of heaven.

Mat 18:5 And whoso shall receive one such little child in my name receiveth me.

Mat 18:6 But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and [that] he were drowned in the depth of the sea.

Mat 18:7 Woe unto the world because of offences! for it must needs be that offences come; but woe to that man by whom the offence cometh!

Mat 18:8 Wherefore if thy hand or thy foot offend thee, cut them off, and cast [them] from thee: it is better for thee to enter into life halt or maimed, rather than having two hands or two feet to be cast into everlasting fire.

Mat 18:9 And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast [it] from thee: it is better for thee to enter into life with one eye, rather than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire.

Mat 18:10 Take heed that ye despise not one of these little ones; for I say unto you, That in heaven their angels do always behold the face of my Father which is in heaven.

Mat 18:11 For the Son of man is come to save that which was lost.
--------------------------
I guess there are few heartbreaks as great as that of a couple wanting children and unable to conceive. Still it seems like a moral and ethical conflict to go with "test tube" babies with the knowledge that some fertilize eggs may not be implanted and eventually will face some kind of destruction or deterioration. I have an opinion and judgement against this practice, but I also have a compassion for the heartbreak and difficulties of couples, and most especially Christian couples who have or may face these decisions and whatever consequences in the present or the future for the choices they make.

Just because God has allowed our knowledge of science to expand into areas like DNA, fertility, organ transplant.... doesn't mean he intended for us to use it indiscrimanantly or to 'play god'. Just because we have the means of holding life in an suspension almost indefinately with life support systems, doesn't mean it is always wise to do so or to not do so. With all of these questions go discussions which are beyond the intent or the expertise of the Baptist Board: But I think most all of us could agree....... What God allows man to discover and understand and manipulate also involves and creates choices for man to make: Perhaps some of those choices which man should be making is first which of these are his right to make vs. which should be left alone and within the realms of faith and trust in God. But a science which puts itself at odds against a faith in God and does everything to create questions and doubts in the community of faith lacks the principles or discipline to be making decisions: As good as it may appear; as potential 'for the good of mankind' as may be argued; such knowledge and usefulness for man's good or God's glory is worthless without submission to God's authority and principles of faith: All that we know which seems available for our good, seems influenced by the community which denies God and views man's own rights to knowledge, use and power as boundless......... and is the brainstorm of the deceiver at work in the hearts of man.

 

[targus]

YOU support the murder of the unborn if you support test tube babies.

Still waiting for your answer.

JustChristian, do you oppose the creation of test tube babies?

Third time asking...

 

[LadyEagle]

What God allows man to discover and understand and manipulate also involves and creates choices for man to make: Perhaps some of those choices which man should be making is first which of these are his right to make vs. which should be left alone and within the realms of faith and trust in God.

Agreed. And what's wrong with good old fashioned prayer? Like Hannah. God answered and she conceived Samuel and then went on to conceive other children. No test tube babies for Hannah.

 

[tinytim]

If people would forego in vitro.. and accept adoption... not only would they be not creating life that has to be destroyed.. but they may be helping save another life that may have ended up aborted.

 

[Don]

How can you say this? I've read the article three times, trying to figure out how you came to this conclusion; instead, I see the article explaining that extracting the cells destroys the embryo, necessarily leading to the conclusion that more embryos will be needed; and two senators who state that "we shouldn't have to create life in order to enhance life" and that we can do the same research without the destruction of living human embryos.

So how did you reach a conclusion that's completely opposite of the conclusions drawn in the article?

Asked this back on page 1, in response to something Just Christian posted. 3 pages later, no answer.

 

[JustChristian]

If people would forego in vitro.. and accept adoption... not only would they be not creating life that has to be destroyed.. but they may be helping save another life that may have ended up aborted.

I wholeheartedly agree with you. I overheard one of my co-workers say yesterday that a cousin of his and his wife had just adopted FIVE children from the same family. My first thought was that this is what really defines a Christian hero. Amazing that someone would do this but really to be supported.

 

[Palatka51]

The dirty little secret to all of this is, when they start to discover remedies (if any are discovered) there will have to be a stem cell bank established much like that of a blood bank to be ready to respond in emergencies for what ever cure a specific embryonic stem cell might cure. Now just imagine the cost and then the gathering of embryos that will be needed. We will be paying for embryo donors just as we pay for blood donors. :tear:

What a "brave new world" in which we live. Sad just sad!!! :BangHead:

 

[Bro. Curtis]

There must be something I don't understand about test tube babies. Is it true that life is destroyed ? Or do they implant the successful ones ?

 

[tinytim]

Curtis...
When doing In Vitro Fertilization.. ("testtube")(the way I have always understood it)...

They fertilize many eggs.. and if 8 are successful.. the mother has the option of only inplanting so many.. and saving the others...
So say she decides to implant 3 in hopes they take.. the clinic freezes the other 5.

If all 3 take... and develop.. she has triplets...
If 2 die, she only has 1 baby...

she can then go back and have the other 5 inplanted in hopes that some survive to birth.

NOW.. if she doesn't go back for the other 5, they are destroyed.
Killed...

If there is one thing I respected Octomom for it was because she said she had all 8 inplanted because to destroy any.. would be murder...
Just so happened.. all 8 survived.

Anyways, that is how I have understood it.

 

[tinytim]

I wholeheartedly agree with you. I overheard one of my co-workers say yesterday that a cousin of his and his wife had just adopted FIVE children from the same family. My first thought was that this is what really defines a Christian hero. Amazing that someone would do this but really to be supported.

Good for your co-worker's cousin!

If some of these mothers that are considering abortion would know their child could have an acceptable life in another family... they may consider giving it up for adoption...

I am slowly finding myself becoming a more adamant adoption supporter..

 

[Bro. Curtis]

Curtis...
When doing In Vitro Fertilization.. ("testtube")(the way I have always understood it)...

They fertilize many eggs.. and if 8 are successful.. the mother has the option of only inplanting so many.. and saving the others...
So say she decides to implant 3 in hopes they take.. the clinic freezes the other 5.

If all 3 take... and develop.. she has triplets...
If 2 die, she only has 1 baby...

she can then go back and have the other 5 inplanted in hopes that some survive to birth.

NOW.. if she doesn't go back for the other 5, they are destroyed.
Killed...

If there is one thing I respected Octomom for it was because she said she had all 8 inplanted because to destroy any.. would be murder...
Just so happened.. all 8 survived.

Anyways, that is how I have understood it.

Tnanx, man. It does sound Frankenstienish.