Baptismal regeneration

[DHK]

Ezek. 36:25-27 - the Lord promises He will sprinkle us with water to cleanse us from sin and give us a new heart and spirit. Paul refers to this verse in Heb. 10:22. The teaching of Ezekiel foreshadows the salvific nature of Christian baptism instituted by Jesus and taught in John 3:5, Titus 3:5, 1 Peter 3:21 and Acts 22:16.

And what did Jeremiah say, Jeremiah living at approximately the same time as Ezekiel:

KJV) For though thou wash thee with nitre, and take thee much soap, yet thine iniquity is marked before me, saith the Lord GOD.

Or, in another translation:

(CEV) The LORD said: People of Israel, you are stained with guilt, and no soap or bleach can wash it away.

IOW, he mocks them for trying to wash away their sin through baptism, through the element of water. Even if they use the strongest possible soaps known to mankind--such as bleach in our day, it will do no good. The sin will remain. Such is baptism. It will get you wet, but that is all.

Baptism has the same efficacy that the waters of the Ganges River has for the Hindus. They also go and baptize themselves in those polluted waters thinking it will wash away their sins. They have as much chance as the Catholic who believes in baptismal regeneration. It is a superstition and that is all. It is akin to the Hindu pagan belief. It has no power to wash sin away. Jeremiah mocks it.

The only thing that can wash away your sin is the blood of Jesus Christ.

1Jn 1:7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.

 

[Robert William]

Ezek. 36:25-27 - the Lord promises He will sprinkle us with water to cleanse us from sin and give us a new heart and spirit. Paul refers to this verse in Heb. 10:22. The teaching of Ezekiel foreshadows the salvific nature of Christian baptism instituted by Jesus and taught in John 3:5, Titus 3:5, 1 Peter 3:21 and Acts 22:16.

Spoken by a BMC = Baptomethoromanite. :laugh:

 

[tyndale1946]

Spoken by a BMC = Baptomethoromanite. :laugh:

Well I don't know what that is... Let me in on the joke.
This is a famous saying among the preach brethren of our people. If one is not regenerated before he is immersed in the baptismal pool, he goes in a dry devil and comes out a wet one!... You brethren and theological banter speak plainly... Brother Glen

 

[Rebel]

If water baptism regenerates, washes away sins, produces spiritual rebirth, we'd better go out and start hosing down the neighborhood so we can get as many people in the kingdom as possible.

 

[Walter]

If water baptism regenerates, washes away sins, produces spiritual rebirth, we'd better go out and start hosing down the neighborhood so we can get as many people in the kingdom as possible.

What we are promised in Baptism is ratified (for lack of a better word) by faith in Christ. Remember, baptism is something God does to us. It is freely given by God. Baptism is the Gospel in liquid form. Faith and Baptism are not opposed to each other. Baptism is a free gift - it is not a work. We merely receive God's grace in baptism. Naturally, unbelief is a rejection of what if given or promised in baptism. And what is given is forgiveness of sins by being united to Christ in His death and resurrection.

So it is not an either/or situation. Either faith or baptism. It is Faith in Christ who we are united to in baptism it is a both/and situation.

The sacramental bond of the unity of Christians


1271 Baptism constitutes the foundation of communion among all Christians, including those who are not yet in full communion with the Catholic Church: "For men who believe in Christ and have been properly baptized are put in some, though imperfect, communion with the Catholic Church. Justified by faith in Baptism, [they] are incorporated into Christ; they therefore have a right to be called Christians, and with good reason are accepted as brothers by the children of the Catholic Church."81 "Baptism therefore constitutes the sacramental bond of unity existing among all who through it are reborn."82

An indelible spiritual mark . . .

1272 Incorporated into Christ by Baptism, the person baptized is configured to Christ. Baptism seals the Christian with the indelible spiritual mark (character) of his belonging to Christ. No sin can erase this mark, even if sin prevents Baptism from bearing the fruits of salvation.83 Given once for all, Baptism cannot be repeated.

1273 Incorporated into the Church by Baptism, the faithful have received the sacramental character that consecrates them for Christian religious worship.84 The baptismal seal enables and commits Christians to serve God by a vital participation in the holy liturgy of the Church and to exercise their baptismal priesthood by the witness of holy lives and practical charity.85 1274 The Holy Spirit has marked us with the seal of the Lord ("Dominicus character") "for the day of redemption."86 "Baptism indeed is the seal of eternal life."87 The faithful Christian who has "kept the seal" until the end, remaining faithful to the demands of his Baptism, will be able to depart this life "marked with the sign of faith,"88 with his baptismal faith, in expectation of the blessed vision of God - the consummation of faith - and in the hope of resurrection.

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

What we are promised in Baptism is ratified (for lack of a better word) by faith in Christ. Remember, baptism is something God does to us. It is freely given by God. Baptism is the Gospel in liquid form. Faith and Baptism are not opposed to each other. Baptism is a free gift - it is not a work. We merely receive God's grace in baptism. Naturally, unbelief is a rejection of what if given or promised in baptism. And what is given is forgiveness of sins by being united to Christ in His death and resurrection.

So it is not an either/or situation. Either faith or baptism. It is Faith in Christ who we are united to in baptism it is a both/and situation.

The sacramental bond of the unity of Christians


1271 Baptism constitutes the foundation of communion among all Christians, including those who are not yet in full communion with the Catholic Church: "For men who believe in Christ and have been properly baptized are put in some, though imperfect, communion with the Catholic Church. Justified by faith in Baptism, [they] are incorporated into Christ; they therefore have a right to be called Christians, and with good reason are accepted as brothers by the children of the Catholic Church."81 "Baptism therefore constitutes the sacramental bond of unity existing among all who through it are reborn."82

An indelible spiritual mark . . .

1272 Incorporated into Christ by Baptism, the person baptized is configured to Christ. Baptism seals the Christian with the indelible spiritual mark (character) of his belonging to Christ. No sin can erase this mark, even if sin prevents Baptism from bearing the fruits of salvation.83 Given once for all, Baptism cannot be repeated.

1273 Incorporated into the Church by Baptism, the faithful have received the sacramental character that consecrates them for Christian religious worship.84 The baptismal seal enables and commits Christians to serve God by a vital participation in the holy liturgy of the Church and to exercise their baptismal priesthood by the witness of holy lives and practical charity.85 1274 The Holy Spirit has marked us with the seal of the Lord ("Dominicus character") "for the day of redemption."86 "Baptism indeed is the seal of eternal life."87 The faithful Christian who has "kept the seal" until the end, remaining faithful to the demands of his Baptism, will be able to depart this life "marked with the sign of faith,"88 with his baptismal faith, in expectation of the blessed vision of God - the consummation of faith - and in the hope of resurrection.

Roman Catholic BULL!

 

[BobRyan]

Excellent and detailed post. Thank you for this!

I would mention that the the Lutherans see baptismal regeneration a little differently than others. They hold that water baptism does regenerate, in an objective manner, but that it requires faith from the recipient to be efficacious.

I agree a great list -

I would add - these two also argue against baptismal regen
1. Acts 19 rebaptism


2. 1 Pet 3 “Baptism saves…” not the touch of magic sacramental “waters to the flesh, but an appeal to God for a clean conscience”

And of course the whole point of infant baptism is that baptism saves without an appeal to God - without a choice.

 

[Walter]

Lutherans and Catholics share the same beliefs about baptism

 

[PreachTony]

Lakeside, you still haven't answered a couple of questions that were posed to you in the course of this thread:

1. What translation are you using?

2. You state that Paul was baptized by sprinkling. What scripture do you think proves this statement?

 

[BobRyan]

What we are promised in Baptism is ratified (for lack of a better word) by faith in Christ. Remember, baptism is something God does to us. It is freely given by God. Baptism is the Gospel in liquid form.

1 Peter 3 "NOT the touch of supposedly magic sacramental waters to the flesh" - but RATHER "an appeal to God for a clean conscience" not even possible for the infant.

No text says "Baptism is something God does to us" we have to use "you" as the sacred text for that.

Faith and Baptism are not opposed to each other.

No faith AT ALL expressed by the infant.

Baptism is thus "apart from faith" for those who engage in infant baptism.

Baptism is a free gift - it is not a work.

Correction - NO text says "Baptism is a gift" of any kind.

We would have to use "you" as the sacred text for that.

So it is not an either/or situation. Either faith or baptism. It is Faith in Christ who we are united to in baptism it is a both/and situation.

Not at all the case for infants.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[Robert William]

Well I don't know what that is... Let me in on the joke.
This is a famous saying among the preach brethren of our people. If one is not regenerated before he is immersed in the baptismal pool, he goes in a dry devil and comes out a wet one!... You brethren and theological banter speak plainly... Brother Glen

I made it up after looking at his profile. he says he is Baptist Methodist and Rc, sounds like a mixmash of confusion.

 

[Robert William]

What we are promised in Baptism is ratified (for lack of a better word) by faith in Christ. Remember, baptism is something God does to us. It is freely given by God. Baptism is the Gospel in liquid form. Faith and Baptism are not opposed to each other. Baptism is a free gift - it is not a work. We merely receive God's grace in baptism. Naturally, unbelief is a rejection of what if given or promised in baptism. And what is given is forgiveness of sins by being united to Christ in His death and resurrection.

So it is not an either/or situation. Either faith or baptism. It is Faith in Christ who we are united to in baptism it is a both/and situation.

The sacramental bond of the unity of Christians


1271 Baptism constitutes the foundation of communion among all Christians, including those who are not yet in full communion with the Catholic Church: "For men who believe in Christ and have been properly baptized are put in some, though imperfect, communion with the Catholic Church. Justified by faith in Baptism, [they] are incorporated into Christ; they therefore have a right to be called Christians, and with good reason are accepted as brothers by the children of the Catholic Church."81 "Baptism therefore constitutes the sacramental bond of unity existing among all who through it are reborn."82

An indelible spiritual mark . . .

1272 Incorporated into Christ by Baptism, the person baptized is configured to Christ. Baptism seals the Christian with the indelible spiritual mark (character) of his belonging to Christ. No sin can erase this mark, even if sin prevents Baptism from bearing the fruits of salvation.83 Given once for all, Baptism cannot be repeated.

1273 Incorporated into the Church by Baptism, the faithful have received the sacramental character that consecrates them for Christian religious worship.84 The baptismal seal enables and commits Christians to serve God by a vital participation in the holy liturgy of the Church and to exercise their baptismal priesthood by the witness of holy lives and practical charity.85 1274 The Holy Spirit has marked us with the seal of the Lord ("Dominicus character") "for the day of redemption."86 "Baptism indeed is the seal of eternal life."87 The faithful Christian who has "kept the seal" until the end, remaining faithful to the demands of his Baptism, will be able to depart this life "marked with the sign of faith,"88 with his baptismal faith, in expectation of the blessed vision of God - the consummation of faith - and in the hope of resurrection.

Walter, everybody here sees your lips flapping without backing it up with scripture, this means everything you are teaching is just another one of a billion of opinions, in other words you lips are flapping for nothing.

 

[lakeside]

Robert William, please open your Bible to -Gen. 17:12, Lev. 12:3 - these texts show the circumcision of eight-day old babies as the way of entering into the Old Covenant - Col 2:11-12 - however, baptism is the new "circumcision" for all people of the New Covenant. Therefore, baptism is for babies as well as adults. God did not make His new Covenant narrower than the old Covenant. To the contrary, He made it wider, for both Jews and Gentiles, infants and adults.

 

[PreachTony]

Robert William, please open your Bible to -Gen. 17:12, Lev. 12:3 - these texts show the circumcision of eight-day old babies as the way of entering into the Old Covenant - Col 2:11-12 - however, baptism is the new "circumcision" for all people of the New Covenant. Therefore, baptism is for babies as well as adults. God did not make His new Covenant narrower than the old Covenant. To the contrary, He made it wider, for both Jews and Gentiles, infants and adults.

There is not a single case in the New Testament of a baby being baptized. Why? Because our entry into the covenant no longer rests on our ethnicity or national origin, but rather on our faith in Jesus Christ. Look at these instances of baptism in the New Testament. Each one required "belief" or "repentance" prior to baptism taking place. What baby can express faith or repentance?

He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Then they that gladly received his word were baptized:

12 But when they believed Philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women.
13 Then Simon himself believed also: and when he was baptized, he continued with Philip, and wondered, beholding the miracles and signs which were done.

35 Then Philip opened his mouth, and began at the same scripture, and preached unto him Jesus.
36 And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized?
37 And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.
38 And he commanded the chariot to stand still: and they went down both into the water, both Philip and the eunuch; and he baptized him.

And Crispus, the chief ruler of the synagogue, believed on the Lord with all his house; and many of the Corinthians hearing believed, and were baptized.

 

[Robert William]

There is not a single case in the New Testament of a baby being baptized. Why? Because our entry into the covenant no longer rests on our ethnicity or national origin, but rather on our faith in Jesus Christ. Look at these instances of baptism in the New Testament. Each one required "belief" or "repentance" prior to baptism taking place. What baby can express faith or repentance?

Thanks Tony, you are doing a great job, isn't it sad how tradition is so ingrained, it's a form of brain washing.

I pray for lakeside and hope you can help him.

 

[Yeshua1]

Robert William, please open your Bible to -Gen. 17:12, Lev. 12:3 - these texts show the circumcision of eight-day old babies as the way of entering into the Old Covenant - Col 2:11-12 - however, baptism is the new "circumcision" for all people of the New Covenant. Therefore, baptism is for babies as well as adults. God did not make His new Covenant narrower than the old Covenant. To the contrary, He made it wider, for both Jews and Gentiles, infants and adults.

The New Covenant was a NEW ONE made beyween God and sinners, NOT a mere continuation/add on to the old One, as that one was made obsolete and nullified by the one of grace!

And there is NO scripture that supports infant baptism was the way of the Apostles, as ALL recorded instances were to believers in Christ first!

 

[DHK]

What we are promised in Baptism is ratified (for lack of a better word) by faith in Christ. Remember, baptism is something God does to us. It is freely given by God. Baptism is the Gospel in liquid form.

There is no such thing as the Gospel in liquid form. How can you believe such superstitions??
Baptism is NOT something that God does. If you were baptized, you were baptized by another man. You may even know his name. But it wasn't God. Why are you deceived into believing it was God? Did you see Jesus? No man has seen God at any time, unless he saw Jesus, the only begotten of the Father. He has declared Him.
So who did you see? What did you see when you were baptized? Make some sense here!
It wasn't God that baptized you, was it? God didn't do it! That is just a plain lie.

 

[Robert William]

The New Covenant was a NEW ONE made beyween God and sinners, NOT a mere continuation/add on to the old One, as that one was made obsolete and nullified by the one of grace!

And there is NO scripture that supports infant baptism was the way of the Apostles, as ALL recorded instances were to believers in Christ first!

Amen, nice to see we can agree on a subject, the other free willy part may take some time.

 

[Robert William]

Robert William, please open your Bible to -Gen. 17:12, Lev. 12:3 - these texts show the circumcision of eight-day old babies as the way of entering into the Old Covenant - Col 2:11-12 - however, baptism is the new "circumcision" for all people of the New Covenant. Therefore, baptism is for babies as well as adults. God did not make His new Covenant narrower than the old Covenant. To the contrary, He made it wider, for both Jews and Gentiles, infants and adults.

Only males were circumcised, do you baptise baby females?

There is no transition in scripture that teaches circumcision changes to baby male baptism, scripture teaches the opposite, look.

Col 2:11 In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:

 

[Rebel]

There is no such thing as the Gospel in liquid form. How can you believe such superstitions??
Baptism is NOT something that God does. If you were baptized, you were baptized by another man. You may even know his name. But it wasn't God. Why are you deceived into believing it was God? Did you see Jesus? No man has seen God at any time, unless he saw Jesus, the only begotten of the Father. He has declared Him.
So who did you see? What did you see when you were baptized? Make some sense here!
It wasn't God that baptized you, was it? God didn't do it! That is just a plain lie.

Right. God baptizes in the Spirit, the "circumcision made without hands". I believe both physical circumcision and physical baptism require hands.