Baptist Hermeneutics

[37818]

. . . learned and godly men on both sides of the Calvinism-Arminianism issue and both use the historical-grammatical method, yet they arrive at different conclusions. I am not talking about careless exegetes. Why do they come to these different conclusions?

Without knowing the specifics, one side of the arguement is wrong or both sides of the argument on that point are wrong. It is really that simple. We need to look at that real case.

 

[37818]

. . . Calvinist purposely twist what scripture says . . .

Without knowing the specifics, that maybe true. But then you or both the Calvinist and you are wrong. We need to look at a specific.

 

[Reformed]

Without knowing the specifics, one side of the arguement is wrong or both sides of the argument on that point are wrong. It is really that simple. We need to look at that real case.

I only used C&A as an example. It could Dichotomy vs. Trichotomy or Cessationism vs. Continualiam. Maybe the issue is faulty hermeneutics. Maybe the issue is a different understanding of grammar. Maybe the issue is presuppositions. Maybe... There is no easy answer here. There is no way to tie this thread into a near little bow.

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk

 

[Alan Gross]

Without knowing the specifics, one side of the arguement is wrong or both sides of the argument on that point are wrong. It is really that simple. We need to look at that real case.

The real case within The Spiritual Realm, which is a Higher Reality than the 'thoughts' of finite humans, reasoning with their mind that has been affected by that very same sin-cursed State of Natural Total Depravity, is that God Revealed Adam Fell and died in The Garden of Eden.

Even, fleshly reasoning may observe that Adam continued to live, physically, and yet the circumstances regarding his Spiritual State are not always observed, by reason, as being dead as God Said Adam would be.

There has never been any debait.

An individual who has not, or can not, decern God's Revelation of Adam's Spiritual death, is in no position to 'think' they have an insight into any other Bible Revelation, from God to Mankind.

I have more Scriptures that could be misinterpreted by the Natural reasoning and denial of this rudimentary Bible Doctrine, than anyone boasting of their glory over their Creator, in Salvation.

Over 50.

Why don't they at least have some more wet ammo to conduct their opposition to God?

Ignorance?

Sure thing.


*"It is therefore a TESTING doctrine, especially of the preacher's soundness in the faith.

A man's orthodoxy on this subject determines his viewpoint of many other doctrines of great importance.

If his belief here is a scriptural one, then he will clearly perceive how impossible it is for men to improve themselves—that Christ is their only hope.

He will know that unless the sinner is born again there can be no entrance for him into the kingdom of God.

Nor will he entertain the idea of the fallen creature's free will to attain goodness.

He will be preserved from many errors.

Andrew Fuller stated, "I never knew a person verge toward the Arminian, the Arian, the Socinian, the Antinomian schemes, without first entertaining diminutive notions of human depravity or blameworthiness."

Said the well-equipped theological instructor, J. M. Stifler, "It cannot be said too often that a false theology finds its source in inadequate views of depravity."*

*CHAPTER - INTRODUCTION

 

[MB]

You Must Be Born Again.

Yes I am. How nice of you to notice.
MB

 

[Alan Gross]

There are also ten's of thousands of words written by hundreds of Bible teachers, on Total Depravity, of which Natural Realm, carnal reasoning, deniers are unaware of, which include hundreds of Scriptures.

Why do they not know how to teach the Bible, or know what the Bible teaches?

Ignorance.

You bet.

A. W. PINK - MAN'S TOTAL DEPRAVITY

• INTRODUCTION

• ORIGIN

• IMPUTATION

• CONSEQUENCES

• TRANSMISSION

• NATURE

• IMPACT

• ENORMITY

• EXTENT

• RAMIFICATIONS

• EVIDENCES

• COROLLARIES

• REMEDY

• SUMMARY

COLLECTION OF A.W. PINK'S WRITINGS

 

[37818]

I only used C&A as an example. It could Dichotomy vs. Trichotomy or Cessationism vs. Continualiam. Maybe the issue is faulty hermeneutics. Maybe the issue is a different understanding of grammar. Maybe the issue is presuppositions. Maybe... There is no easy answer here. There is no way to tie this thread into a near little bow.

There are many cases. We cannot deal with all of them at once. But I think, one can be picked to discuss. I mean discuss, not just to repeat a debate on it. Identify where and what the point of disagreement is. We could find that there is actually another point of disagreement, behind the one we thought we picked.

We are Baptists, we can do this.

 

[37818]

The real case within The Spiritual Realm, which is a Higher Reality than the 'thoughts' of finite humans, reasoning with their mind that has been affected by that very same sin-cursed State of Natural Total Depravity, is that God Revealed Adam Fell and died in The Garden of Eden.

Even, fleshly reasoning may observe that Adam continued to live, physically, and yet the circumstances regarding his Spiritual State are not always observed, by reason, as being dead as God Said Adam would be.

There has never been any debait.

An individual who has not, or can not, decern God's Revelation of Adam's Spiritual death, is in no position to 'think' they have an insight into any other Bible Revelation, from God to Mankind.

I have more Scriptures that could be misinterpreted by the Natural reasoning and denial of this rudimentary Bible Doctrine, than anyone boasting of their glory over their Creator, in Salvation.

Over 50.

Why don't they at least have some more wet ammo to conduct their opposition to God?

Ignorance?

Sure thing.


*"It is therefore a TESTING doctrine, especially of the preacher's soundness in the faith.

A man's orthodoxy on this subject determines his viewpoint of many other doctrines of great importance.

If his belief here is a scriptural one, then he will clearly perceive how impossible it is for men to improve themselves—that Christ is their only hope.

He will know that unless the sinner is born again there can be no entrance for him into the kingdom of God.

Nor will he entertain the idea of the fallen creature's free will to attain goodness.

He will be preserved from many errors.

Andrew Fuller stated, "I never knew a person verge toward the Arminian, the Arian, the Socinian, the Antinomian schemes, without first entertaining diminutive notions of human depravity or blameworthiness."

Said the well-equipped theological instructor, J. M. Stifler, "It cannot be said too often that a false theology finds its source in inadequate views of depravity."*

*CHAPTER - INTRODUCTION

There are also ten's of thousands of words written by hundreds of Bible teachers, on Total Depravity, of which Natural Realm, carnal reasoning, deniers are unaware of, which include hundreds of Scriptures.

Why do they not know how to teach the Bible, or know what the Bible teaches?

Ignorance.

You bet.

A. W. PINK - MAN'S TOTAL DEPRAVITY

• INTRODUCTION

• ORIGIN

• IMPUTATION

• CONSEQUENCES

• TRANSMISSION

• NATURE

• IMPACT

• ENORMITY

• EXTENT

• RAMIFICATIONS

• EVIDENCES

• COROLLARIES

• REMEDY

• SUMMARY

COLLECTION OF A.W. PINK'S WRITINGS

Yes, there is a "laundry list" just on the topic of the "Total Deprivaty" of man. The fact that there is a huge list, just on one topic, how does that help? Only that there is a need to know how to do valid Biblical Hermeneutics. The fact of a diversity of "interpertations" shows there is an on going problem.

The Apostle Paul to the Corinthian church,
". . . Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment. . . ." -- Corinthians 1:10

And then in the same letter,
". . . For first of all, when ye come together in the church, I hear that there be divisions among you; and I partly believe it. For there must be also heresies among you, that they which are approved may be made manifest among you. . . ." -- 1 Corinthians 11:18-19.

@Alan Gross,
Now you are no novice.

 

[Alan Gross]

So, you wade out into the ocean of meaningless 'debait', on all these topics with which to 'argue man-made religion', when a Bible knowledge of Total Depravity is a Hovercraft skipping above it all, where a Sound student can see all the daylight.

That is the definition of unsound Bible learning and a novice.

Just forget Loving God, or Knowing God, with that approach.

Whether you or anyone is is lost, I don't know, but I do know The War you are waging against God and His Bible Doctrine of Total Depravity has already been lost.

 

[Alan Gross]

". . . For first of all, when ye come together in the church..."

Does this mean you are going to stop teaching heresy now?

About The Bible Word, "church"?

 

[37818]

Now, throwing out a "laundry list" of disagreements does not teach Biblical Hermeneutics [Baptist Hermeneutics].

Everone has been given natural revelation - the creation itself as special revelation [written revelation] starts off with, "In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. . . ." -- Genesis 1:1.

Now we who know God need to learn how to show others how to know God. And knowing God is to have eternal life (John 17:3; 2 John 1:9; 1 John 5:9-13).

 

[Alan Gross]

Now, throwing out a "laundry list" of disagreements does not teach Biblical Hermeneutics [Baptist Hermeneutics].

Everone has been given natural revelation - the creation itself as special revelation [written revelation] starts off with, "In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. . . ." -- Genesis 1:1.

Now we who know God need to learn how to show others how to know God. And knowing God is to have eternal life (John 17:3; 2 John 1:9; 1 John 5:9-13).

Beginning with 'natural' thinking, of, "I do not believe God would do this, or that, because my personal decree is that God is this and I have desired men are so and so___", and I am smart in doing so, is 'natural', but it is not The Mind of God being used that is attached to that sinner coming up with that Hermenutic, and it is not 'line upon line, precept upon precept', and it is not A Divinely Inspired Presupposition, regardless of what 'revelation' you imagine your sin-cursed natural mind halusinates.

Let's call throwing out 10's of thousands of words and hundreds of Scriptures of Systematic Theology on a specific Bible Doctrine something else besides a laundry list of disagreements.

Let's call that 'throwing out', to be named, 'witchcraft', so it does everyone who reads it some good.

 

[Yeshua1]

Beginning with 'natural' thinking, of, "I do not believe God would do this, or that, because my personal decree is that God is this and I have desired men are so and so___", and I am smart in doing so, is 'natural', but it is not The Mind of God being used that is attached to that sinner coming up with that Hermenutic, and it is not 'line upon line, precept upon precept', and it is not A Divinely Inspired Presupposition, regardless of what 'revelation' you imagine your sin-cursed natural mind halusinates.

Let's call throwing out 10's of thousands of words and hundreds of Scriptures of Systematic Theology on a specific Bible Doctrine something else besides a laundry list of disagreements.

Let's call that 'throwing out', to be named, 'witchcraft', so it does everyone who reads it some good.

Are you saying that all theology books are bad?

 

[agedman]

Maybe but Calvinist purposely twist what scripture says and they call that interpretation as well. How do we lead them to the truth? Seems impossible.
MB

See, you “think” it is Calvinists.

What if it wasn’t?

For example, Paul states in Ephesians that which is pertaining to predestination. (As well as other places)

Do you take Paul’s statement as factually presented?

He presents God chose believers prior to creation. Do you actually agree with Paul in the most literal way, or do you present something modified by some “cooperate election” presentation scheme?

For example, Paul presents one is dead and shackled and unresponsive to the Holy Spirit in His letters.

Do you take Paul’s statements as factually presented?

Or do you assume some innate human ability because it fits the way you want to look upon soteriology?

You present you are “lead by the Holy Spirit.”

If you were, you would take as factually literal the Scriptures and set aside your own bias.

 

[Alan Gross]

T

Are you saying that all theology books are bad?

The 'natural revelation' that God Gives to lost souls in order to Reveal His Existence and Eternal Godhead is that they may be without excuse.

Thinking that anyone, much less everyone, has been given Inspired Divine Revelation to edit out God's Revelation, as un-Inspired, and just replace it with what they think is Satanic.

 

[Yeshua1]

T



The 'natural revelation' that God Gives to lost souls in order to Reveal His Existence and Eternal Godhead is that they may be without excuse.

Thinking that anyone, much less everyone, has been given Inspired Divine Revelation to edit out God's Revelation, as un-Inspired, and just replace it with what they think is Satanic.

Is that a yes?

 

[Alan Gross]

Is that a yes?

I will take and use any writing of people, and if it is beneficial to my understanding The Bible better, or explaining, I will take WHAT IS RIGHT, every time.

The best writers on Baptist History and Perpetuity that Record and Document the existence of Baptist Believing congregations throughout THE CHURCH AGE are lost writers, Catholics, Quakers, Protestants, and other religious inventions of men. Because, they killed the ones they found and told about who they were.

I am in deep respect to Gill, because he covers several angles of what The Bible could be saying and then arrives at THE MOST GOD-HONORING.

So would anyone else who cared to have that as a Hermenutical Goal.

The Eternal Godhead Planned, Accomplished Through Jesus, and Made Affective Through The Holy Spirit, THE ETERNAL SALVATION of THOSE GOD GAVE JESUS, or......

No one would had had any Salvation possibility and every man, woman, boy, and girl, would have gone to Hell.

The Eternal Godhead Gets the Credit, Honor, and Praise, ABOVE ANY BLESSING OR PRAISE WE COULD GIVE HIM, for the Salvation of a soul.

Jesus is The Savior.

I know that in my flesh, I will see my Redeemer.

Salvation is of The Lord.

My Lord and my God.

The King of kings and Lord of Lord's.

 

[Van]

Lets list a few of the rules we use to interpret scripture.

1) The Word of God presents a coherent whole, except that later revelations sometimes abrogate earlier scripture.

2) "The Old Testament Laws have been fulfilled and abrogated or cancelled with Christ's death, and replaced with the Law of Christ of the New Covenant, although many of the Old Covenant laws are re-instituted under the New Covenant."

3) The meaning of words and phrases should be understood as the original audience would have understood them, given their historical meaning of that time, the grammatical version of the word in the text, and the cultural beliefs of the time.

4) Avoid speculation that nullifies the meaning, or adds or expands to the scope of a statement, Ask "what is the least the text is saying."

5) Do not use preconceptions (i.e. prior doctrinal belief) to result in an agenda driven interpretation.

 

[Dave G]

We use no other study tools then, no lexicons, concordances, commentaries etc?

Not needed.
Interesting and even useful, but ultimately not needed.

His word ( 2 Timothy 3:16-17 ) and His Spirit are all we need ( 1 John 2:20-27 ) to discern the Scriptures.

Which brings me to a question...
Why do people treat the commentaries of others as having any weight, when it comes to how they understand God's word?

After all, they are mere men the same as we.

 

[Dave G]

From both your replies, do you know of any source that gives you the definition, or teaching, or understanding of the words in the sentance I wrote?


"God Gives Stars in The Right Hand of Jesus, to His Candlesticks".

What do these words mean?

"God Gives Stars"?

"in The Right Hand of Jesus" ?,

"to His Candlesticks"?

No, but I do know that He will give me the answer, if I trust Him and wait on Him.
I'll figure it out with God's help, Alan.