Baptist Prophets

[Darrell C]

This is the same way that O view tis issue, as many today seem to want to keep cjarasma and Bible at same time!

I would probably be more in agreement with BB: while I don't view there to be Prophets as we see before in Biblical times (meaning periods where Scripture is given to men), that doesn't mean I don't think there is a possibility that prophesying may take place at times. But it would probably be, if it did happen, more along the lines of the prophecy as quoted earlier that was specific to Paul.

Likewise, I don't believe in healers, but I believe in healings. I don't believe in miracle workers, but I believe in miracles.


God bless.

 

[Yeshua1]

I would probably be more in agreement with BB: while I don't view there to be Prophets as we see before in Biblical times (meaning periods where Scripture is given to men), that doesn't mean I don't think there is a possibility that prophesying may take place at times. But it would probably be, if it did happen, more along the lines of the prophecy as quoted earlier that was specific to Paul.

Likewise, I don't believe in healers, but I believe in healings. I don't believe in miracle workers, but I believe in miracles.


God bless.

I would hold to God giving smeone the gift to understand and apply prophectic part ofthe word to situations, but notale to be giving additional revelationsas charasmatics do!

 

[HankD]

It is my belief indeed that the Book of Acts is the "Acts" or "deeds" of the Apostles and is an inspired historical narrative of the transition (via the apostles) of the kingdom of God on earth from the Hebrew Nation (Israel) to the the Gentiles (the Church) although individual Hebrews are welcome into the Church.

The Book of Hebrews being the theological narrative of that transition.

Actually I prefer to add the word "Inclusion" or the biblical word "graff" which is another area of disagreement to the point of ridicule and contempt for/of each other so I avoid any discussions thereof or turn away after the ridicule and contempt is launched.

Romans 11
17 And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert graffed in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree;
18 Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee.
19 Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be graffed in.
20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:
21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.
22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.
23 And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again.

The resistance of Israel to this transition threads throughout the Book of Acts,
ending with this pronouncement:

Acts 28
25 And when they agreed not among themselves, they departed, after that Paul had spoken one word, Well spake the Holy Ghost by Esaias the prophet unto our fathers,
26 Saying, Go unto this people, and say, Hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and not perceive:
27 For the heart of this people is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes have they closed; lest they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.
28 Be it known therefore unto you, that the salvation of God is sent unto the Gentiles, and that they will hear it.

HankD

 

[Baptist Believer]

Were back then prophes, none sincet that time?

Sure, there are female prophets today. The practice of the early church is relevant to today.

 

[Baptist Believer]

No, rather that we have to view the book of Acts as being a historical account of what Goddid back then, in order to establish Jesus as Messiah, and th church, but was not meant to be the norm for all time!

That's a cute way of getting around Acts, but Paul wrote at least three times about the church being gifted with prophets/prophecy.

If you dismiss that, then you have practically dismissed the New Testament.

 

[Baptist Believer]

I would probably be more in agreement with BB: while I don't view there to be Prophets as we see before in Biblical times (meaning periods where Scripture is given to men), that doesn't mean I don't think there is a possibility that prophesying may take place at times. But it would probably be, if it did happen, more along the lines of the prophecy as quoted earlier that was specific to Paul.

I don't think we are that far apart.

Likewise, I don't believe in healers, but I believe in healings.

I don't believe that there are people who are designated as healers. I do believe that God heals from time-to-time through normal Christians. The gift of healing is not something that one possesses - it is something that works through the will of God for a situation and is channeled through a faithful believer.

I don't believe in miracle workers, but I believe in miracles

I don't believe that there are people who are designated as miracle workers. I do believe that God performs miracles from time-to-time through normal Christians. The working of miracles is not something that one possesses - it is something that works through the will of God for a situation and is channeled through a faithful believer.

 

[Yeshua1]

Sure, there are female prophets today. The practice of the early church is relevant to today.

Not when the Lord does not move in that fashion today!

 

[Yeshua1]

That's a cute way of getting around Acts, but Paul wrote at least three times about the church being gifted with prophets/prophecy.

If you dismiss that, then you have practically dismissed the New Testament.

He wrote to hem back bforethere was the established canon, and during te period when God still had living Apostles/Prophet!

 

[Yeshua1]

I don't think we are that far apart.


I don't believe that there are people who are designated as healers. I do believe that God heals from time-to-time through normal Christians. The gift of healing is not something that one possesses - it is something that works through the will of God for a situation and is channeled through a faithful believer.


I don't believe that there are people who are designated as miracle workers. I do believe that God performs miracles from time-to-time through normal Christians. The working of miracles is not something that one possesses - it is something that works through the will of God for a situation and is channeled through a faithful believer.

Since you admit heresigns and wonders are no longer the norm, why still prphecy?

 

[Baptist Believer]

Not when the Lord does not move in that fashion today!

Maybe that's your experience, but that's not mine.

 

[Baptist Believer]

He wrote to hem back bforethere was the established canon, and during te period when God still had living Apostles/Prophet!

You have put a lot of stock in the Cessationist viewpoint. I don't find it compelling at all. It doesn't match the scripture, doesn't make logical sense, and doesn't match the experience of many Christians.

 

[Baptist Believer]

Since you admit heresigns and wonders are no longer the norm, why still prphecy?

I don't "admit" anything, I have always clearly stated my position. Signs and wonders were NEVER the norm - that's why they are notable.

Prophecy is the norm because we have people who speak for God every Sunday (often from pulpits), and in all areas of life and ministry. Prophets/prophecy is in all three of Paul's listings of spiritual gifts and manifestations.

You are apparently operating with a different definition of "prophet."

Tell me, what do you think are the characteristics of a prophet and what is prophecy?

 

[Yeshua1]

Maybe that's your experience, but that's not mine.

Why would he be now doing that were not the norm since Apostolic times in Church history though?

 

[Yeshua1]

You have put a lot of stock in the Cessationist viewpoint. I don't find it compelling at all. It doesn't match the scripture, doesn't make logical sense, and doesn't match the experience of many Christians.

We would accept that the Lord can still do miracles an halings today, but there nonegiftedto do such now, and thre are no modern Apostls/Prophet, as thre is no need since Canon completed!

 

[Yeshua1]

I don't "admit" anything, I have always clearly stated my position. Signs and wonders were NEVER the norm - that's why they are notable.

Prophecy is the norm because we have people who speak for God every Sunday (often from pulpits), and in all areas of life and ministry. Prophets/prophecy is in all three of Paul's listings of spiritual gifts and manifestations.

You are apparently operating with a different definition of "prophet."

Tell me, what do you think are the characteristics of a prophet and what is prophecy?

The prophets in acts were enalbled by God to give forth from the Lord direct messages, thus sayth the Lord, and also were used by God to confirm the doctrines ofth Apostles in transisition era. No more need to do that now, so do alo to have a prson gifted to be able to apply the prophetic passages to modern situations, but no more guidance/doctrine thu that!

 

[Baptist Believer]

Why would he be now doing that were not the norm since Apostolic times in Church history though?

For those who are trying to follow along, our friend is asking why would God be using women to speak His word (prophesy) if that has not been the norm since apostolic times in church history.

My answer:
God has been using women throughout the last 2,000 years to speak and apply His word. Over the ages, the church has both conformed and rebelled against cultural norms, so it became unusual to see women in prominent teaching roles before the entire congregation.

I had a friend from another Christian traditions ask me why Baptists baptize by immersion when the church has been baptizing through sprinkling for more than 1,500 years. Why would we want to go back to the way we think it was done during the first century when sprinkling works well, especially since baptism does not have sacramental powers? I told him that I thought it was important not to rely on tradition, but to conform as closely to scripture as possible so that we can properly see the picture of cleansing and new birth created by passing through the waters.

So we need to take tradition seriously when we look at the role of women in the church, but also recognize it does not have the final say in regard to faith and practice. Women were prophets in the first century and if God is still raising up prophets (He is), then we should expect some of them to be women.

 

[Yeshua1]

For those who are trying to follow along, our friend is asking why would God be using women to speak His word (prophesy) if that has not been the norm since apostolic times in church history.

My answer:
God has been using women throughout the last 2,000 years to speak and apply His word. Over the ages, the church has both conformed and rebelled against cultural norms, so it became unusual to see women in prominent teaching roles before the entire congregation.

I had a friend from another Christian traditions ask me why Baptists baptize by immersion when the church has been baptizing through sprinkling for more than 1,500 years. Why would we want to go back to the way we think it was done during the first century when sprinkling works well, especially since baptism does not have sacramental powers? I told him that I thought it was important not to rely on tradition, but to conform as closely to scripture as possible so that we can properly see the picture of cleansing and new birth created by passing through the waters.

So we need to take tradition seriously when we look at the role of women in the church, but also recognize it does not have the final say in regard to faith and practice. Women were prophets in the first century and if God is still raising up prophets (He is), then we should expect some of them to be women.

There are no Pastors/elders in th NT times tha were women though, and the NT prophet once again were used in teh time of laying in the foundation of the Church, so not needed for that today! We have a more sure word than prophecy in the Bible itself!

 

[Baptist Believer]

We would accept that the Lord can still do miracles an halings today, but there nonegiftedto do such now, and thre are no modern Apostls/Prophet, as thre is no need since Canon completed!

You are making a common error when thinking about spiritual gifts. You see the manifestations (1 Corinthians 12:7) of the Spirit as something that is permanently given to a believer are a primary role in the church. The most controversial spiritual gifts/manifestations are word of wisdom, word of knowledge, gifts of healing, effecting of miracles, distinguishing of spirits, kinds of tongues, and interpretation of tongues (see 1 Corinthians 12:8-11). These works of power are simply the manifestation of the Spirit in the life of a believer as they do the work of ministry. They are only available when needed and then only according to the will of God. For instance, unless God is interested in having a whole hospital of people suddenly healed of their illnesses, we shouldn't expect a person through whom God has healed previously to be able to simple run through the hospital curing everyone.

The most frequent manifestation of the Spirit that God performs through me is the word of knowledge, which is quite closely tied to the permanent gift of the prophet (Ephesians 4:11). The word of knowledge - in my experience - is knowledge of something that I would have no other way of knowing for the purpose of comforting, letting someone know that God hears them, or speaking directly into a situation for a person in crisis. Often when I feel compelled to tell a person something, I have no clue what it means since I have no context for it, but I feel the power of the words as they come out of me and the other person will tell me that they know it is from God. At other times, it has taken the form of telling someone that God has heard the thing (and I can name it) they are praying privately about and that God is about to answer that prayer. It often occurs in evangelism, when I suddenly start speaking words I have not planned and are not part of my internal monologue, which speak directly to the heart of the person with whom I am sharing the gospel. They are cut to the core of that person and are a catalyst for repentance.

It's very hard to explain, but it happens from time to time. I cannot initiate it, but I can choose not to cooperate with the Spirit.

 

[Baptist Believer]

The prophets in acts were enalbled by God to give forth from the Lord direct messages, thus sayth the Lord, and also were used by God to confirm the doctrines ofth Apostles in transisition era.

I agree.

No more need to do that now, so do alo to have a prson gifted to be able to apply the prophetic passages to modern situations, but no more guidance/doctrine thu that!

Why do you think we have no need to hear God's leading now?

Do you deny that people hear/understand the voice of God for personal decisions, for ministry, and for evangelism? I'm not saying set aside the scriptures, but for decisions involving callings and direction.

 

[Yeshua1]

I agree.


Why do you think we have no need to hear God's leading now?

Do you deny that people hear/understand the voice of God for personal decisions, for ministry, and for evangelism? I'm not saying set aside the scriptures, but for decisions involving callings and direction.

The Holy Spirit can and does guide us today, thru situations, godly advice, scriptures, but no need to seek a "word of the Lord"