Baptist School Loses Third of Faculty

[Jerome]

Employees of Shorter University desert the school in droves following new president's imposition of 'lifestyle' regulations:

http://blog.christianitytoday.com/ctliveblog/archives/2012/05/baptist_univers.html

"The university, in Rome, Ga., now requires faculty to sign a personal lifestyle statement that says they will not engage in illegal drug use or drink alcohol in restaurants, stadiums and other public locations. “I reject as acceptable all sexual activity not in agreement with the Bible, including, but not limited to, premarital sex, adultery, and homosexuality,” the statement reads.

The Georgia Baptist Convention began appointing all trustees of the school’s board in 2005 after a ruling in the state convention’s favor by the Georgia Supreme Court."

 

[matt wade]

Sounds like the school got rid of the riff raff.

 

[preachinjesus]

Having known this school and several trustees...this isn't a bad thing.

They have standards and will be able to easily replace the departing faculty.

 

[asterisktom]

Employees of Shorter University desert the school in droves following new president's imposition of 'lifestyle' regulations:

http://blog.christianitytoday.com/ctliveblog/archives/2012/05/baptist_univers.html

"The university, in Rome, Ga., now requires faculty to sign a personal lifestyle statement that says they will not engage in illegal drug use or drink alcohol in restaurants, stadiums and other public locations. “I reject as acceptable all sexual activity not in agreement with the Bible, including, but not limited to, premarital sex, adultery, and homosexuality,” the statement reads.

The Georgia Baptist Convention began appointing all trustees of the school’s board in 2005 after a ruling in the state convention’s favor by the Georgia Supreme Court."

Other parts of the proscription here are biblical, but the drinking of alcohol is not. Jesus was faulted by the legalists for being a wine-drinker and companion of wine-drinkers. This statement they are forced to sign follows in the same spirit, putting having a glass of good wine in a decent restaurant on the same par as the gross sins of homosexuality and adultery.

Drawing the line where Jesus didn't; if that isn't legalism I don't know what is.

Having spent many year in these kinds of churches - I used to preach in the Athens area I know the mindset that would produce this kind of "line-in-the-sand" document ("sand" it is). If they wanted to be consistent they should have added another restriction against over-eating (gluttony) to go with the alcohol drinking one.

How many overweight pastors and Christians there are - their Bible belts on the very last notch - who yet make a big deal about total abstinence from alcohol. We give the impression that Christianity is just a list of do's and don't's rather than Done and follow.

 

[matt wade]

Drawing the line where Jesus didn't; if that isn't legalism I don't know what is.

You don't know what legalism is then. Legalism is when you require things for salvation. They aren't. They are simply requiring a code of conduct for their staff.

 

[Jerome]

What then does the new president mean by casting it as a test of "authentic Christian identity"?

 

[matt wade]

What then does the new president mean by casting it as a test of "authentic Christian identity"?

I couldn't speculate on his meaning. Maybe you could send him a letter and ask?

 

[annsni]

Other parts of the proscription here are biblical, but the drinking of alcohol is not. Jesus was faulted by the legalists for being a wine-drinker and companion of wine-drinkers. This statement they are forced to sign follows in the same spirit, putting having a glass of good wine in a decent restaurant on the same par as the gross sins of homosexuality and adultery.

Drawing the line where Jesus didn't; if that isn't legalism I don't know what is.

Having spent many year in these kinds of churches - I used to preach in the Athens area I know the mindset that would produce this kind of "line-in-the-sand" document ("sand" it is). If they wanted to be consistent they should have added another restriction against over-eating (gluttony) to go with the alcohol drinking one.

How many overweight pastors and Christians there are - their Bible belts on the very last notch - who yet make a big deal about total abstinence from alcohol. We give the impression that Christianity is just a list of do's and don't's rather than Done and follow.

Did you read what they have to say about alcohol?

I will quote it here:

"I will not use alcoholic beverages in the presence of students, and I will
abstain from serving, from using, and from advocating the use of alcoholic
beverages in public (e.g. in locations that are open to use by the general
public, including as some examples restaurants, concert venues,
stadiums, and sports facilities) and in settings in which students are
present or are likely to be present. I will not attend any University
sponsored event in which I have consumed alcohol within the last six
hours. Neither will I promote or encourage the use of alcohol. "

 

[asterisktom]

You don't know what legalism is then. Legalism is when you require things for salvation. They aren't. They are simply requiring a code of conduct for their staff.

Legalism is not just overt requirements of salvation. It is also implication. Examples are implying that "mixed bathing" - a term I didn't even know until I went to BJU in South Carolina - is "unchristian". Yet the people who said this never said that mixed-bathers weren't saved. Other examples are not doing "secular things" on the Lord's Day (which itself comes from a misunderstanding of a single verse in Revelation). These secular things vary according to the dictates of the legalist espousing it: No work of any kind, no reading the funnies on Sundays, etc.

No, this is legalism. I have seen it for years. It is an enemy of growth in grace. The sad thing is that this school calls their restrictions a "return to biblical roots", when it really isn't.

By this new restriction Jesus would have been forced to resign.

 

[Gina B]

It's sad that a third of them left, but at least they were honest and did so, leaving the school to find people who aren't as likely to cause them troubles in the future.

It's sad when it's that difficult to find staff members who are more than Sunday Christians.

 

[OldRegular]

Don't drink myself, except water, coffee, unsweetened tea, and juice. Have no particular problem with a person who drinks alcohol in moderation. I will say that a drunk Christian is a poor witness for Jesus Christ. Furthermore, it is a fact that over indulgence in alcohol, or other drugs, can lead to inappropriate behavior, even crime, or quoting the OP:

sexual activity not in agreement with the Bible, including, but not limited to, premarital sex, adultery, and homosexuality,”

 

[asterisktom]

Did you read what they have to say about alcohol?

I will quote it here:

"I will not use alcoholic beverages in the presence of students, and I will
abstain from serving, from using, and from advocating the use of alcoholic
beverages in public (e.g. in locations that are open to use by the general
public, including as some examples restaurants, concert venues,
stadiums, and sports facilities) and in settings in which students are
present or are likely to be present. I will not attend any University
sponsored event in which I have consumed alcohol within the last six
hours. Neither will I promote or encourage the use of alcohol. "

Yes, I read this. I agree with much of the idea behind it. Yet it draws the line too far. In effect it means that a faculty member cannot drink wine or beer anywhere publicly, since students are "likely to be present" in precisely those same places where the faculty would, in good conscience, go. And, again, it reinforces the wrong attitude about Christian life.

More justifiable would be for them to have mandatory weight checks, since this is a more substantial proof of crossing a biblical line (gluttony). I am not advocating that, only saying that they are being selective.

And - seeing that the Bible nowhere prohibits the mere drinking of alcohol - unscriptural.

 

[HAMel]

Having spent many year in these kinds of churches - I used to preach in the Athens area I know the mindset that would produce this kind of "line-in-the-sand" document ("sand" it is). If they wanted to be consistent they should have added another restriction against over-eating (gluttony) to go with the alcohol drinking one.

How many overweight pastors and Christians there are - their Bible belts on the very last notch - who yet make a big deal about total abstinence from alcohol. We give the impression that Christianity is just a list of do's and don't's rather than Done and follow.

Good for you!

I dropped basically the same to the congregation in a church many years ago and I thought I was gonna get tarred and feathered. Course, I don't drink but the "over-weight" issue really upset the apple cart for sure.

Churches are often their own worst enemies.

 

[annsni]

Yes, I read this. I agree with much of the idea behind it. Yet it draws the line too far. In effect it means that a faculty member cannot drink wine or beer anywhere publicly, since students are "likely to be present" in precisely those same places where the faculty would, in good conscience, go. And, again, it reinforces the wrong attitude about Christian life.

More justifiable would be for them to have mandatory weight checks, since this is a more substantial proof of crossing a biblical line (gluttony). I am not advocating that, only saying that they are being selective.

And - seeing that the Bible nowhere prohibits the mere drinking of alcohol - unscriptural.

See, I disagree. I know that college students struggle with alcohol abuse. MANY of them. It is a gift to them to have those who they look up to not to be drinking in front of them so that they understand that it's OK to forgo partaking to benefit others. My husband and I do not drink partly for the same reason. We have been in ministry to college students and we have daughters who are that age right now as well. They certainly don't need their pastor to be drinking in front of them so we choose to not partake.

 

[mandym]

Don't drink myself, except water, coffee, unsweetened tea, and juice. Have no particular problem with a person who drinks alcohol in moderation. I will say that a drunk Christian is a poor witness for Jesus Christ. Furthermore, it is a fact that over indulgence in alcohol, or other drugs, can lead to inappropriate behavior, even crime, or quoting the OP:

A drunk Christian is one who is engaged in willful sin.

 

[agedman]

Other parts of the proscription here are biblical, but the drinking of alcohol is not. Jesus was faulted by the legalists for being a wine-drinker and companion of wine-drinkers. This statement they are forced to sign follows in the same spirit, putting having a glass of good wine in a decent restaurant on the same par as the gross sins of homosexuality and adultery.

Drawing the line where Jesus didn't; if that isn't legalism I don't know what is.

Having spent many year in these kinds of churches - I used to preach in the Athens area I know the mindset that would produce this kind of "line-in-the-sand" document ("sand" it is). If they wanted to be consistent they should have added another restriction against over-eating (gluttony) to go with the alcohol drinking one.

How many overweight pastors and Christians there are - their Bible belts on the very last notch - who yet make a big deal about total abstinence from alcohol. We give the impression that Christianity is just a list of do's and don't's rather than Done and follow.

Just because you want to accept what some consider unacceptable, does not support the claim of legalism. The SB have a historical stand against intoxicants.

This covenant was printed in every SBC Baptist Hymnal until the "new" one came out in 1975. This hymnal was used throughout the SBC from 1956 replacing the "Broadman Hymnal" or the "Baptist Hymn Book" used before 1956.

Having been led, as we believe, by the Spirit of God, to receive the Lord Jesus Christ as our Savior, and on the profession of our faith, having been baptized in the name of our Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost, we do now in the presence of God, angels, and this assembly, most solemnly and joyfully enter into covenant with one another as one body in Christ.

We engage, therefore, by the aid of the Holy Spirit, to walk together in Christian love; to strive for the advancement of this church, in knowledge, holiness, and comfort, to promote its prosperity and spirituality; to sustain its worship, ordinances, discipline and doctrines, to contribute cheerfully and regularly to the support of the ministry, the expenses of the church, the relief of the poor, and the spread of the Gospel through all nations.

We also engage to maintain family and secret devotion; to religiously educate our children, to seek the salvation of our kindred and acquaintances, to walk circumspectly in the world, to be just in our dealings, faithful in our engagements and exemplary in our deportment, to avoid all tattling, backbiting and excessive anger, to abstain from the sale and use of intoxicating drinks as a beverage, and to be zealous in our efforts to advance the Kingdom of our Savior.

We further engage to watch over one another with brotherly love, to remember each other in prayer, to aid each other in sickness and distress, to cultivate Christian sympathy in feeling and courtesy in speech, to be slow to take offense, but always ready for reconciliation, and mindful of the rules of our Savior to secure it without delay.

We moreover engage that when we remove from this place, we will as soon as possible unite with some other church, where we can carry out the spirit of this covenant and the principles of God’s word.​

 

[asterisktom]

See, I disagree. I know that college students struggle with alcohol abuse. MANY of them. It is a gift to them to have those who they look up to not to be drinking in front of them so that they understand that it's OK to forgo partaking to benefit others. My husband and I do not drink partly for the same reason. We have been in ministry to college students and we have daughters who are that age right now as well. They certainly don't need their pastor to be drinking in front of them so we choose to not partake.

I am not talking about drinking in front of anyone. I am talking about living the grace life.

I have always been leery of trying to be more thorough than God's Word in what I teach others, or observe myself. Look at at 2 Timothy 3:16-17:

"All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work."

Once again, there is nothing in the Bible about abstaining from alcohol entirely. And nothing about abstaining for the reason you gave. There are other similar passages, like not knowingly eating meat clearly offered to idols. But that has to do with concern for the consciences of the ask brother. If there truly was a need for such instruction we would have foundit in Scripture, most likely in one of the Pastoral epistles. But we don't. And those - the whole Bible, in fact - is explicitly described as "complete". They thoroughly prepare Christians for full maturity in Christianity, growing up into the stature of Christ.

I understand about weak Christians. But what is the best way to teach them? That our life is one of rigid and superficial adherence to things that, in themselves, are harmless? There is more harm in a Happy Meal than in a single glass of beer or wine. Yet this goes unaddressed. Maybe because the overuse of alcohol, tragic as it is, is more obvious and spectacular than the overindulgence in eating. I suspect, also, that a lot of sacred cow is served at McDonalds.

We cannot be partial in where we draw the line. Neither should we draw a line, whatever the noble motive, anywhere other than where the Bible draws it.

 

[asterisktom]

Just because you want to accept what some consider unacceptable, does not support the claim of legalism. The SB have a historical stand against intoxicants.

This covenant was printed in every SBC Baptist Hymnal until the "new" one came out in 1975. This hymnal was used throughout the SBC from 1956 replacing the "Broadman Hymnal" or the "Baptist Hymn Book" used before 1956.

Having been led, as we believe, by the Spirit of God, to receive the Lord Jesus Christ as our Savior, and on the profession of our faith, having been baptized in the name of our Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost, we do now in the presence of God, angels, and this assembly, most solemnly and joyfully enter into covenant with one another as one body in Christ.

We engage, therefore, by the aid of the Holy Spirit, to walk together in Christian love; to strive for the advancement of this church, in knowledge, holiness, and comfort, to promote its prosperity and spirituality; to sustain its worship, ordinances, discipline and doctrines, to contribute cheerfully and regularly to the support of the ministry, the expenses of the church, the relief of the poor, and the spread of the Gospel through all nations.

We also engage to maintain family and secret devotion; to religiously educate our children, to seek the salvation of our kindred and acquaintances, to walk circumspectly in the world, to be just in our dealings, faithful in our engagements and exemplary in our deportment, to avoid all tattling, backbiting and excessive anger, to abstain from the sale and use of intoxicating drinks as a beverage, and to be zealous in our efforts to advance the Kingdom of our Savior.

We further engage to watch over one another with brotherly love, to remember each other in prayer, to aid each other in sickness and distress, to cultivate Christian sympathy in feeling and courtesy in speech, to be slow to take offense, but always ready for reconciliation, and mindful of the rules of our Savior to secure it without delay.

We moreover engage that when we remove from this place, we will as soon as possible unite with some other church, where we can carry out the spirit of this covenant and the principles of God’s word.​

This is all well and good. I believe that such things are written in many (but not all) Baptist covenants. But the issue here - at least with me - is whether this is biblical. The original article quoted this university in Athens as "returning to biblical roots" (something to that effect), not original Baptist teachings.

 

[asterisktom]

A drunk Christian is one who is engaged in willful sin.

No one here is saying anything otherwise. But, for that matter, an over-eating Christian is also engaged in willful sin.

 

[annsni]

I am not talking about drinking in front of anyone. I am talking about living the grace life.

I have always been leery of trying to be more thorough than God's Word in what I teach others, or observe myself. Look at at 2 Timothy 3:16-17:

"All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work."

Once again, there is nothing in the Bible about abstaining from alcohol entirely. And nothing about abstaining for the reason you gave. There are other similar passages, like not knowingly eating meat clearly offered to idols. But that has to do with concern for the consciences of the ask brother. If there truly was a need for such instruction we would have foundit in Scripture, most likely in one of the Pastoral epistles. But we don't. And those - the whole Bible, in fact - is explicitly described as "complete". They thoroughly prepare Christians for full maturity in Christianity, growing up into the stature of Christ.

I understand about weak Christians. But what is the best way to teach them? That our life is one of rigid and superficial adherence to things that, in themselves, are harmless? There is more harm in a Happy Meal than in a single glass of beer or wine. Yet this goes unaddressed. Maybe because the overuse of alcohol, tragic as it is, is more obvious and spectacular than the overindulgence in eating. I suspect, also, that a lot of sacred cow is served at McDonalds.

We cannot be partial in where we draw the line. Neither should we draw a line, whatever the noble motive, anywhere other than where the Bible draws it.

So unless we do it all, we shouldn't do any? I disagree with that. I know for a fact that the college students have learned from our giving up alcohol. We've spoken to them that when they are of age, they are allowed to carefully partake of alcoholic beverages but since so many of these underage kids struggle with the issue of alcohol, we've chosen to stand with them and not drink. We heard as they grew, that made a huge impact on them and they have often been able to choose more wisely, knowing that their pastor has chosen to sacrifice for their sakes.