Baptist School Loses Third of Faculty

[asterisktom]

The ban on tobacco on the campus isn't exactly the same as the ban on alcohol. The big difference here is that no tobacco use is allowed on campus, but no alcohol is allowed anywhere there might be students. This means that the faculty (at least according to what was written) would still be allowed to smoke in public, just not on the campus. However, they are not allowed to drink alcohol practically anywhere except their own homes.

Again, I am not against the rule. I just wanted to point out the difference here.

I also am not against a private school imposing whatever rules they want on their students and faculty. The only concern I had was their claiming that it was a return to "biblical roots". The advocation of total abstinence (except in one's own home) is a cultural thing, not biblical. That is all I am saying.

 

[freeatlast]

I also am not against a private school imposing whatever rules they want on their students and faculty. The only concern I had was their claiming that it was a return to "biblical roots". The advocation of total abstinence (except in one's own home) is a cultural thing, not biblical. That is all I am saying.

Can you provide something showing it is not a return and that the standards go against biblical standards?

 

[asterisktom]

Can you provide something showing it is not a return and that the standards go against biblical standards?

I already did earlier. To start with, there is the passage in John 2.

 

[freeatlast]

I already did earlier. To start with, there is the passage in John 2.

I read what you wrote but it does not suggest that having standards against drinking in certain places and around certain people goes against scripture.
It would be no different if they made it against the rules to show passionate affection to a spouse in certain areas or around others. You have not provided anything to support your cause. It is not wrong to set standards against drinking so as to set biblical standards. How about if a church made a mandate that leaders of the church could not bring and drink bear out of a cooler during service? Would that be wrong? That school did a good thing, not an evil thing.They did not tell them they copuld not drink, just that it could not happen in certain places and around certain people. I fail to see how that is evil.

 

[Ryan.Samples]

I also am not against a private school imposing whatever rules they want on their students and faculty. The only concern I had was their claiming that it was a return to "biblical roots". The advocation of total abstinence (except in one's own home) is a cultural thing, not biblical. That is all I am saying.

I'm on board with you. To prohibit public drinking and call the position a return to biblical roots leads me to conclude that, in their mind, public drinking is unbiblical. Where do we see that in Scripture?

I really can't see how anyone can take the biblical evidence as a whole and declare the consumption of alcohol unbiblical. The only way you can play that game is if you make declarations like "the wine at Jesus' first miracle wasn't fermented." You'd have to say the same with the Lord's Supper and Paul's advice to Timothy. Sigh. :BangHead:

For the record, I don't consume alcohol (outside the occasional NyQuil). I simply take issue with Christians who claim you can't drink and be godly.

 

[freeatlast]

I'm on board with you. To prohibit public drinking and call the position a return to biblical roots leads me to conclude that, in their mind, public drinking is unbiblical. Where do we see that in Scripture?

I really can't see how anyone can take the biblical evidence as a whole and declare the consumption of alcohol unbiblical. The only way you can play that game is if you make declarations like "the wine at Jesus' first miracle wasn't fermented." You'd have to say the same with the Lord's Supper and Paul's advice to Timothy. Sigh. :BangHead:

For the record, I don't consume alcohol (outside the occasional NyQuil). I simply take issue with Christians who claim you can't drink and be godly.

Wine [is] a mocker, strong drink [is] raging: and whosoever is deceived thereby is not wise.
Look not thou upon the wine when it is red, when it giveth his colour in the cup, [when] it moveth itself aright.

 

[Ryan.Samples]

Wine [is] a mocker, strong drink [is] raging: and whosoever is deceived thereby is not wise.
Look not thou upon the wine when it is red, when it giveth his colour in the cup, [when] it moveth itself aright.

What does "deceived thereby" mean?

Jesus provided wine and consumed it himself. Are you calling the second person of the Trinity "not wise"? Pretty sure that falls safely in the realm of heresy.

I don't mind you citing additional references, but it is interesting you completely ignored the verses the oppose your position. How do you respond to the passages that promote the consumption of alcoholic beverages?

 

[Fred's Wife]

Since this thread has turned into a "drinking" thread, I'll jump in here with a few thoughts about Proverbs 20:1

Proverbs 20:1 Wine is a mocker, strong drink is raging: and whosoever is deceived thereby is not wise.

First of all, the word "wine" in the Bible is a generic word. The context determines if it is fermented or the pure juice/fruit of the vine. In Proverbs 20:1 wine is called a "mocker". Jesus did not turn the water into fermented/alcoholic wine at the wedding of Cana (John 2).

Alcoholic wine is deceptive; but how? In the very way that people are advocating today, by saying that drinking a little bit will not hurt. Everyone admits that drinking too much is bad; even the liquor companies tell us not to drive and drink, but they insist that a small amount is all right. However, that is the very thing that is deceptive. Who knows how little to drink? Experts tell us that each person is different. It takes an ounce to affect one, while more is necessary for another. The same person will react to alcohol differently, depending on the amount of food he has had, among other things. So, the idea that "a little bit won't hurt" is deceptive, and whosoever is deceived thereby is not wise! (Way of Life Encyclopedia)

The Lord Jesus Christ never created alcoholic wine, nor did He ever drink it.

 

[preachinjesus]

Sad to see this thread turn into a rambling debate about alcohol. The issues in the OP are greater than that diversion.

 

[freeatlast]

What does "deceived thereby" mean?

Jesus provided wine and consumed it himself. Are you calling the second person of the Trinity "not wise"? Pretty sure that falls safely in the realm of heresy.

I don't mind you citing additional references, but it is interesting you completely ignored the verses the oppose your position. How do you respond to the passages that promote the consumption of alcoholic beverages?

Post the ones you are speaking about.

 

[DHK]

What does "deceived thereby" mean?

Jesus provided wine and consumed it himself. Are you calling the second person of the Trinity "not wise"? Pretty sure that falls safely in the realm of heresy.

I don't mind you citing additional references, but it is interesting you completely ignored the verses the oppose your position. How do you respond to the passages that promote the consumption of alcoholic beverages?

First, your comments are not directing the OP, so you are off topic.

Second, I find your comments very offensive. Since when do you get off on pitting the author of the Bible, the Holy Spirit against Christ Himself. You have them contradicting each other.
I don't mind citing additional references, but it is interesting...how you oppose your own position.

 

[saturneptune]

To try and get back on track, there is one thing for sure. Biblical or not, moral or not, when someone is an employer, paying the bills and the salary, creating the jobs, they have the right to set conditions of employment. If one works there, they agree to follow them or go somewhere else.

 

[freeatlast]

To try and get back on track, there is one thing for sure. Biblical or not, moral or not, when someone is an employer, paying the bills and the salary, creating the jobs, they have the right to set conditions of employment. If one works there, they agree to follow them or go somewhere else.

Not only that the courts have already ruled that an employer can even make rules pertaining to your private life. A few years ago a woman was fired for smoking at home and the courts upheld the termination.
In this case they are simply asking people to show a Christ like life, setting some standards, and some are in rebellion.

 

[righteousdude2]

Other parts of the proscription here are biblical, but the drinking of alcohol is not. Jesus was faulted by the legalists for being a wine-drinker and companion of wine-drinkers. This statement they are forced to sign follows in the same spirit, putting having a glass of good wine in a decent restaurant on the same par as the gross sins of homosexuality and adultery.

Drawing the line where Jesus didn't; if that isn't legalism I don't know what is.

Having spent many year in these kinds of churches - I used to preach in the Athens area I know the mindset that would produce this kind of "line-in-the-sand" document ("sand" it is). If they wanted to be consistent they should have added another restriction against over-eating (gluttony) to go with the alcohol drinking one.

How many overweight pastors and Christians there are - their Bible belts on the very last notch - who yet make a big deal about total abstinence from alcohol. We give the impression that Christianity is just a list of do's and don't's rather than Done and follow.

歡迎執行局。 我喜歡你明智反饋。 願上帝保佑你,並讓你安全! :thumbs:

 

[righteousdude2]

Som e Wise Advice to You...

Alcohol is an intoxicant. As an intoxicant, any amount of alcohol ingested (whether one swallow or one glass, or more) intoxicates the body to a degree.

没有一个是迫使你到底在哪里......所以,哥哥喝的问题是什么? 让所有的一切在基督里做的适度。 我不容忍饮用水,但知道有一些人喝。 只要他们不喝對drunkeness,我见没有问题! 沙洛姆

 

[asterisktom]

歡迎執行局。 我喜歡你明智反饋。 願上帝保佑你,並讓你安全! :thumbs:

Thank you for the kind comments. (谢谢你的客气话!)

沙洛姆 (Shalom) to you too.

(OK, I promise not to indulge in any more Chinese since most here can't read it. Not that I am a whiz at it yet :smilewinkgrin

 

[righteousdude2]

We Must Not Let the Others Thin That....

Thank you for the kind comments. (谢谢你的客气话!)

沙洛姆 (Shalom) to you too.

(OK, I promise not to indulge in any more Chinese since most here can't read it. Not that I am a whiz at it yet :smilewinkgrin

....we are tpying in tongues :smilewinkgrin:

Are you a missionary to China? You have to be the first BB member from that region of the world. Whatever the reason you are in China, welcome and many blessings as well as His unconditional favor for your continued protection...

 

[asterisktom]

....we are tpying in tongues :smilewinkgrin:

Are you a missionary to China? You have to be the first BB member from that region of the world. Whatever the reason you are in China, welcome and many blessings as well as His unconditional favor for your continued protection...

Thank you very much, brother.

I am a missionary only in that all Christians are missionaries. I am an English teacher here on contract. But this certainly is a mission field. Many people here do not even know about Christ. A pastor here says that, when he needs a beginning point of connection in his witnessing, he points to the white cross of the hospital, a well-known symbol.

We - my wife and I, not a "royal we" ; ) - feel very blessed to be here. The pay is poor (and often "loopholey") but that is the fault of the school I work for. The people here are, for the most part, wonderful folks.

I just wish I could read and write better so that I could communicate above a third-grade level.

 

[saturneptune]

Thank you very much, brother.

I am a missionary only in that all Christians are missionaries. I am an English teacher here on contract. But this certainly is a mission field. Many people here do not even know about Christ. A pastor here says that, when he needs a beginning point of connection in his witnessing, he points to the white cross of the hospital, a well-known symbol.

We - my wife and I, not a "royal we" ; ) - feel very blessed to be here. The pay is poor (and often "loopholey") but that is the fault of the school I work for. The people here are, for the most part, wonderful folks.

I just wish I could read and write better so that I could communicate above a third-grade level.

God bless you and your ministry where you are. I think it is wonderful the Gospel can be told in a country we could not even enter a generation ago.

 

[Sapper Woody]

I mean no offense to anyone here, but it's amazing how people will jump on people for derailing a thread when it turns from the discussion of a school's rules and whether or not they are right, into whether or not drinking is ok. But to derail the thread and talk about China as a mission field in the same thread is ok?

As far as Christ drinking any alcoholinc beverage, I can't say with certainty that he did not turn the water into alcoholic wine, although it is my belief that he did not. However, I can say with a certainty that the wine drank at the Last Supper was not alcoholic, as it was a passover observance, and the Jews were not allowed to consume leaven at that time.

Back to the OP, the school's wording of "getting back to biblical roots" may not have meant that all their standards are found explicitly in the Bible, but rather that they are going back to the Biblical roots of having standards and practicing separation.