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BAPTIST SUCCESSION
- Thread starter 37818
- Start date
Alan Gross
Well-Known Member
We believe, by Faith, that what Jesus said about being with His church, always,
that there is a continual line of HIS churches, WHICH BELIEVED "BAPTIST" DOCTRINE, regardless of the names they were called.
This link is to Ten NEW TESTAMENT BIBLE PROOFS that
The kind of church that Jesus built has been on this planet since He first Created and Commissioned them "to go into all the world and preach the Gospel".
("Historical" proofs {in posts, below} come very close but are dependent on Secular writers throughout History and they may not be favorable to The Lord, or His churches/
so, there are "gaps", but filling the "gaps" in the History record is not necessary.)
Again, We believe, by Faith, that what Jesus said about being with His church, always, that there is a continual line of HIS churches, WHICH BELIEVED "BAPTIST" DOCTRINE, regardless of the names they were called.
Rosco Brong Sermon, Baptist Perpetuity
Last edited:
Alan Gross
Well-Known Member
These are links to The Baptist History Notebook (by one of my teachers)
that gives the HISTORY evidence that there is a continual line of HIS churches,
WHICH BELIEVED "BAPTIST" DOCTRINE, regardless of the names they were called.
from Berlin Hisel, Baptist History Notebook.
Index
Chapter 1
Tracing of Baptist History 1
An Invisible War 2
What is Meant by Kingdom 2
O.T. Trail of Blood 3
N.T. Trail of Blood 4
Victims of this War 4
Chapter 2
Jesus Establishes His Church 7
Christ's Church Built 7
Identifying Doctrine 7
Church Government Changed 9
Big Preachers - Big Churches 10
Episcopal Corruptions in Government 12
Preacher Power Corruption 14
Salvation Changes, Baptismal Regeneration 15
Infant Baptism 17
Many Remain True 18
Chapter 3
Persecution by The Roman Empire 20
Reasons for the Persecution 20
Different Emperors 22
How True Churches Fared 22
Nero, 54-68 B.C. 23
Trajan, 98-117 B.C. 25
Septimus Severus 193-211 26
Decius Trajan, 249-251 28
Diocletian, 284-316 30
Terrible Days (Many Martyrs' Crowns) 33
Days of Strength (Strength through Adversity) 33
Chapter 4
The Montanists 35
A Word of Caution, (not all who are called Baptist
are Baptist) 35
False charges against them, (most of their history
written by their enemies) 35
Eusebius, Historical Renderings 36
Montanists, Origin and Beliefs 38
Other Historians' accounts:
D. Benedict 39
J. T. Christian 40
H. C. Vedder 41
T. Armitage 42
W. A. Jarrel 43
Final Notes on the Montanists 43
Chapter 5
The Novatianists 45
Novatian Rupture 46
Historical Renderings:
Kurtz 46
C. L. Gieseler 47
Origin of Novatianism 48
Historical Renderings:
Robert Robinson 48
J. M. Cramp 50
Their Doctrines 51
Their Persecutions 52
Historical Renderings:
W. M. Nevins 52
van Braght 53
C. H. Spurgeon 54
Chapter 6
Constantine The Great 55
Leo I and Boniface III 55
Flavius Valerius Constantinus, A.D. 306-337 56
His Early Life 57
His Supposed Conversion 57
Religion United to the State 59
Edict of Milan 60
Changes in the False Churches 63
Money from the State 63
Privileges and Immunities of Clergy 64
Unity Among all Churches 65
Constantino's Life 68
Constantine's Baptism 68
Conclusion 69
Chapter 7
The Donatists 71
Quote by J. M. Cramp 72
Identified with Novatians 73
The Church, Its Structure 73
Separation of Church and State 74
Baptism 75
Donatist Persecution 76
The Donatists on Persecution 79
Conclusion 79
that gives the HISTORY evidence that there is a continual line of HIS churches,
WHICH BELIEVED "BAPTIST" DOCTRINE, regardless of the names they were called.
from Berlin Hisel, Baptist History Notebook.
Index
Chapter 1
Tracing of Baptist History 1
An Invisible War 2
What is Meant by Kingdom 2
O.T. Trail of Blood 3
N.T. Trail of Blood 4
Victims of this War 4
Chapter 2
Jesus Establishes His Church 7
Christ's Church Built 7
Identifying Doctrine 7
Church Government Changed 9
Big Preachers - Big Churches 10
Episcopal Corruptions in Government 12
Preacher Power Corruption 14
Salvation Changes, Baptismal Regeneration 15
Infant Baptism 17
Many Remain True 18
Chapter 3
Persecution by The Roman Empire 20
Reasons for the Persecution 20
Different Emperors 22
How True Churches Fared 22
Nero, 54-68 B.C. 23
Trajan, 98-117 B.C. 25
Septimus Severus 193-211 26
Decius Trajan, 249-251 28
Diocletian, 284-316 30
Terrible Days (Many Martyrs' Crowns) 33
Days of Strength (Strength through Adversity) 33
Chapter 4
The Montanists 35
A Word of Caution, (not all who are called Baptist
are Baptist) 35
False charges against them, (most of their history
written by their enemies) 35
Eusebius, Historical Renderings 36
Montanists, Origin and Beliefs 38
Other Historians' accounts:
D. Benedict 39
J. T. Christian 40
H. C. Vedder 41
T. Armitage 42
W. A. Jarrel 43
Final Notes on the Montanists 43
Chapter 5
The Novatianists 45
Novatian Rupture 46
Historical Renderings:
Kurtz 46
C. L. Gieseler 47
Origin of Novatianism 48
Historical Renderings:
Robert Robinson 48
J. M. Cramp 50
Their Doctrines 51
Their Persecutions 52
Historical Renderings:
W. M. Nevins 52
van Braght 53
C. H. Spurgeon 54
Chapter 6
Constantine The Great 55
Leo I and Boniface III 55
Flavius Valerius Constantinus, A.D. 306-337 56
His Early Life 57
His Supposed Conversion 57
Religion United to the State 59
Edict of Milan 60
Changes in the False Churches 63
Money from the State 63
Privileges and Immunities of Clergy 64
Unity Among all Churches 65
Constantino's Life 68
Constantine's Baptism 68
Conclusion 69
Chapter 7
The Donatists 71
Quote by J. M. Cramp 72
Identified with Novatians 73
The Church, Its Structure 73
Separation of Church and State 74
Baptism 75
Donatist Persecution 76
The Donatists on Persecution 79
Conclusion 79
Alan Gross
Well-Known Member
Chapter 8
Paterins, Puritans, Cathari 81
Paterins, (Patarenes) 81
Etymology of the Name 84
Paterines were Baptist 85
Puritans 86
Cathari 86
Name Widely Applied 87
The Catharist Doctrine 88
The Cathari were Baptists 89
Chapter 9
The Paulicians 91
Photius (witness of) 91
Siculus (witness of) 92
Origin, Doctrine, Persecution 93
Paulicians were Baptists 97
Persecuted 98
Chapter 10
Development in the Hierarchy, (Roman Catholic)100
The Sign of the Cross 100
Wax Candles 101
Mother of God 102
Purgatory 103
Origin of Purgatory 104
Chapter 11
Further Development in the Hierarchy,
(Roman Catholic) 106
List of Heresies (45 Listed) 106
Extreme Unction 109
Baptism of Bells 109
Transubstantiation 110
A Roman Miracle? 110
Catholic Church Councils Listed 112
Roman Catholic & Greek Orthodox 114
Chapter 12
Petrobrusians 116
Peter de Bruys 116
Their Doctrine 117
Augustus Neander, (Quoted) 117
Peter de Bruys was a Baptist 118
Information Source 119
Persecution 120
Chapter 13
The Henricians 121
Description of Henry 121
Henry in Mans 122
St. Bernard's Account of Henry's Influence 123
Henry was a Baptist 124
Historians say Henricians were Baptists 126
Persecution 126
Chapter 14
The Arnoldists 128
Orchard's Sketch of Arnold of Brescia 128
Was Arnold a Baptist? 130
Persecuted, Arnold's Martyrdom and Doctrine 131
Chapter 15
The Waldenses 134
Their Name 134
Their Antiquity 134
Historical Testimony 136
Waldenses by Various Names 137
Another Word on their Origin 138
Conclusion 140
Chapter 16
The Waldenses Continued 142
Waldenses Not Protestants 142
Their View on "Antichrist" 143
A Confession of Their Faith, (14 Articles) 144
What the Historians Say 148
Chapter 17
The Waldenses Concluded 150
Milton's Poem 150
Loss of Houses and Goods 151
Everywhere Persecuted 151
Persecuted by the Crusaders 152
Chapter 18
The Albigenses 157
Origin 157
Their Doctrine 157
Their Persecutions 160
A Bright Light in Dark Times 162
Chapter 19
The Ana-Baptists 166
Mosheim's Account 166
Depths of Their Antiquity 168
Ana-Baptist Ancestors 169
Waldenses were Ana-Baptists 170
Ana-Baptist Beliefs 171
Chapter 20
The Bogomils 173
Their Locations 173
Agreed with the Cathari 174
Antiquity of the Bogomils 175
Charges Against Them 176
Quote from J. T. Christian 177
Their Persecution 178
Chapter 21
The Lollards 179
Origin of the Lollards 179
Walter Lollard 180
Spurgeon in Connection with the Lollards 181
Their Doctrines 183
Their Persecutions 184
Chapter 22
The Bohemian & Moravian Brethren 188
Description of the Land 188
The Gospel in Bohemia 188
Peter Waldo 189
Called "Waldensians" 190
John Huss 190
Robert Robinson 192
Two Classes of Brethren 192
Their Persecution 192
Chapter 23
The Picards & Beghards 195
Picards or Pickard 195
Bohemia 196
Maximillian II 196
Doctrine of the Picards 196
The Beghards 198
The Name 199
Conclusion 199
Chapter 24
Ana-Baptists and the Reformation 201
God's Overruling Providence 202
The Good Doesn't Last 202
Illustrations of Reform Doctrine 203
Ana-Baptist Doctrine, Its Antiquity 204
Church Truth 205
Conclusion 206
Chapter 25
Ana-Baptists and the Reformation Continued 209
Christianity not a Culture 209
Constantine 210
The Reformation Continues 210
Same Problems 210
Religious Force 211
Luther's Choice 212
Church Requirements 212
Salvation by Faith Alone 213
Non-Public Worship 214
Chapter 26
Ana-Baptist and the Reformation Concluded 216
The Peace between Catholics and Reformers 216
The Peace of Augsburg (1555) 216
The Peace of Westphalia (1648) 217
Lutheran Persecution 217
Luther, A Persecutor 218
Death Warrants 219
John Calvin, A Persecutor 220
The Reformers all Alike 221
Conclusion 222
Chapter 27
The Ana-Baptists of Munster 223
W. A. Jarrel, Quote of their Diversity 223
The Munster Disorders 224
Common Sense, (not Ana-Baptist of the Ordinary
Sort) 226
Ana-Baptists Denial 226
Martyr's Testimony, (Condemnation of the Acts
Committed at Munster) 227
Non-Baptist Vindication 228
Conclusion 229
Chapter 28
The Welsh Baptists 231
The Gospel of Wales 231
Concerning Paul 231
Claudia, (Princess of Wales, Convert of Paul?)232
Baptists Alone 233
Were Ancient World Christians Baptist? 235
David Benedict's Quote concerning 236
Conclusion 237
Please note the enormous:
Bibliography 239
Waldensian Confessions of Faith
Confession of 1120 247
Paterins, Puritans, Cathari 81
Paterins, (Patarenes) 81
Etymology of the Name 84
Paterines were Baptist 85
Puritans 86
Cathari 86
Name Widely Applied 87
The Catharist Doctrine 88
The Cathari were Baptists 89
Chapter 9
The Paulicians 91
Photius (witness of) 91
Siculus (witness of) 92
Origin, Doctrine, Persecution 93
Paulicians were Baptists 97
Persecuted 98
Chapter 10
Development in the Hierarchy, (Roman Catholic)100
The Sign of the Cross 100
Wax Candles 101
Mother of God 102
Purgatory 103
Origin of Purgatory 104
Chapter 11
Further Development in the Hierarchy,
(Roman Catholic) 106
List of Heresies (45 Listed) 106
Extreme Unction 109
Baptism of Bells 109
Transubstantiation 110
A Roman Miracle? 110
Catholic Church Councils Listed 112
Roman Catholic & Greek Orthodox 114
Chapter 12
Petrobrusians 116
Peter de Bruys 116
Their Doctrine 117
Augustus Neander, (Quoted) 117
Peter de Bruys was a Baptist 118
Information Source 119
Persecution 120
Chapter 13
The Henricians 121
Description of Henry 121
Henry in Mans 122
St. Bernard's Account of Henry's Influence 123
Henry was a Baptist 124
Historians say Henricians were Baptists 126
Persecution 126
Chapter 14
The Arnoldists 128
Orchard's Sketch of Arnold of Brescia 128
Was Arnold a Baptist? 130
Persecuted, Arnold's Martyrdom and Doctrine 131
Chapter 15
The Waldenses 134
Their Name 134
Their Antiquity 134
Historical Testimony 136
Waldenses by Various Names 137
Another Word on their Origin 138
Conclusion 140
Chapter 16
The Waldenses Continued 142
Waldenses Not Protestants 142
Their View on "Antichrist" 143
A Confession of Their Faith, (14 Articles) 144
What the Historians Say 148
Chapter 17
The Waldenses Concluded 150
Milton's Poem 150
Loss of Houses and Goods 151
Everywhere Persecuted 151
Persecuted by the Crusaders 152
Chapter 18
The Albigenses 157
Origin 157
Their Doctrine 157
Their Persecutions 160
A Bright Light in Dark Times 162
Chapter 19
The Ana-Baptists 166
Mosheim's Account 166
Depths of Their Antiquity 168
Ana-Baptist Ancestors 169
Waldenses were Ana-Baptists 170
Ana-Baptist Beliefs 171
Chapter 20
The Bogomils 173
Their Locations 173
Agreed with the Cathari 174
Antiquity of the Bogomils 175
Charges Against Them 176
Quote from J. T. Christian 177
Their Persecution 178
Chapter 21
The Lollards 179
Origin of the Lollards 179
Walter Lollard 180
Spurgeon in Connection with the Lollards 181
Their Doctrines 183
Their Persecutions 184
Chapter 22
The Bohemian & Moravian Brethren 188
Description of the Land 188
The Gospel in Bohemia 188
Peter Waldo 189
Called "Waldensians" 190
John Huss 190
Robert Robinson 192
Two Classes of Brethren 192
Their Persecution 192
Chapter 23
The Picards & Beghards 195
Picards or Pickard 195
Bohemia 196
Maximillian II 196
Doctrine of the Picards 196
The Beghards 198
The Name 199
Conclusion 199
Chapter 24
Ana-Baptists and the Reformation 201
God's Overruling Providence 202
The Good Doesn't Last 202
Illustrations of Reform Doctrine 203
Ana-Baptist Doctrine, Its Antiquity 204
Church Truth 205
Conclusion 206
Chapter 25
Ana-Baptists and the Reformation Continued 209
Christianity not a Culture 209
Constantine 210
The Reformation Continues 210
Same Problems 210
Religious Force 211
Luther's Choice 212
Church Requirements 212
Salvation by Faith Alone 213
Non-Public Worship 214
Chapter 26
Ana-Baptist and the Reformation Concluded 216
The Peace between Catholics and Reformers 216
The Peace of Augsburg (1555) 216
The Peace of Westphalia (1648) 217
Lutheran Persecution 217
Luther, A Persecutor 218
Death Warrants 219
John Calvin, A Persecutor 220
The Reformers all Alike 221
Conclusion 222
Chapter 27
The Ana-Baptists of Munster 223
W. A. Jarrel, Quote of their Diversity 223
The Munster Disorders 224
Common Sense, (not Ana-Baptist of the Ordinary
Sort) 226
Ana-Baptists Denial 226
Martyr's Testimony, (Condemnation of the Acts
Committed at Munster) 227
Non-Baptist Vindication 228
Conclusion 229
Chapter 28
The Welsh Baptists 231
The Gospel of Wales 231
Concerning Paul 231
Claudia, (Princess of Wales, Convert of Paul?)232
Baptists Alone 233
Were Ancient World Christians Baptist? 235
David Benedict's Quote concerning 236
Conclusion 237
Please note the enormous:
Bibliography 239
Waldensian Confessions of Faith
Confession of 1120 247
Last edited:
is unbiblical as it completely misunderstands the meaning of a church.
Churches are founded on Jesus Christ - not an Apostle - not another church.
A people hears the gospel. Out of these people some are saved. They form a congregation. They are no less a church than the New Testament age churches.
What is more miraculous and interesting than the fiction of Apostolic succession is the actual church and how different congregations, often holding different doctrines (but the same gospel) will be made to stand. Unfortunately many are more concerned with judging servants of Another, but He will make them stand because they are His churches.
Churches are founded on Jesus Christ - not an Apostle - not another church.
A people hears the gospel. Out of these people some are saved. They form a congregation. They are no less a church than the New Testament age churches.
What is more miraculous and interesting than the fiction of Apostolic succession is the actual church and how different congregations, often holding different doctrines (but the same gospel) will be made to stand. Unfortunately many are more concerned with judging servants of Another, but He will make them stand because they are His churches.
Alan Gross
Well-Known Member
This is a list of the "8 Baptist Doctrines" a church that Jesus Built will hold and be shown to stand for.
from:
"Christ's Church Built
"Doing this, we must begin with the church which Jesus built and observe how Satan sought to corrupt it from within which resulted in a separation by the pure churches from the corrupt churches.
"And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter,
and upon this rock I will build My church:
and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it" (Matthew 16:18).
The word "church" means assembly. The Lord said He would build "His" (My) church.
This was to distinguish it from all other kinds of assemblies.
He built His "kind" of assembly.
That which distinguishes His from all the rest are the doctrines He gave to it.
Those doctrinal peculiarities make it His kind of church.
What are those marks or doctrinal peculiarities?
Dr. J. R. Graves in his book "Old Landmarkism" lists seven.
Dr. Clarence Walker, in his introduction to the "Trail of Blood" (page 5) lists seven.
Dr. D. B. Ray, in his "Baptist Succession"
[p. 8]
lists seven. To these could be added or subtracted,
depending on the historian and what his purpose might be.
Where one would list two doctrines under one head the next may list them separately.
I will list eight but treat primarily three in this Notebook.
(1) The church's Head and Founder is Jesus Christ
(Matthew 16:18; Colossians 1:18).
(2) Its only rule of faith and practice is the Bible
(II Timothy 3:15-17).
(3) Its members are to be only saved people
(Acts 2:41).
(4) Its government is congregational
(Acts 1:23-26 - equality).
(5) Its teaching on salvation is that it is by grace
(Ephesians 2:8-9).
(6) It has but two ordinances; Baptism and the Lord's Supper,
and these are symbolic
(Matthew 28:19-20; I Corinthians 11:24).
(7) Its commission is inclusive
(Matthew 28:16-20).
(8) It is independent
(Matthew 16:19; Matthew 22:21).
"Wherever, in history, in whatever age,
you find churches teaching these doctrines,
you have a Baptist church, no matter what name it may go by.
"It matters not if we cannot, from church to church, trace it back
to the First Baptist Church of Jerusalem.
The succession is there but records may hinder or stop our search.
What it teaches is the important thing.
Jesus said the gates of hell would not prevail against His church
so He guaranteed perpetuity."
from:
"Christ's Church Built
"Doing this, we must begin with the church which Jesus built and observe how Satan sought to corrupt it from within which resulted in a separation by the pure churches from the corrupt churches.
"And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter,
and upon this rock I will build My church:
and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it" (Matthew 16:18).
The word "church" means assembly. The Lord said He would build "His" (My) church.
This was to distinguish it from all other kinds of assemblies.
He built His "kind" of assembly.
That which distinguishes His from all the rest are the doctrines He gave to it.
Those doctrinal peculiarities make it His kind of church.
What are those marks or doctrinal peculiarities?
Dr. J. R. Graves in his book "Old Landmarkism" lists seven.
Dr. Clarence Walker, in his introduction to the "Trail of Blood" (page 5) lists seven.
Dr. D. B. Ray, in his "Baptist Succession"
[p. 8]
lists seven. To these could be added or subtracted,
depending on the historian and what his purpose might be.
Where one would list two doctrines under one head the next may list them separately.
I will list eight but treat primarily three in this Notebook.
(1) The church's Head and Founder is Jesus Christ
(Matthew 16:18; Colossians 1:18).
(2) Its only rule of faith and practice is the Bible
(II Timothy 3:15-17).
(3) Its members are to be only saved people
(Acts 2:41).
(4) Its government is congregational
(Acts 1:23-26 - equality).
(5) Its teaching on salvation is that it is by grace
(Ephesians 2:8-9).
(6) It has but two ordinances; Baptism and the Lord's Supper,
and these are symbolic
(Matthew 28:19-20; I Corinthians 11:24).
(7) Its commission is inclusive
(Matthew 28:16-20).
(8) It is independent
(Matthew 16:19; Matthew 22:21).
"Wherever, in history, in whatever age,
you find churches teaching these doctrines,
you have a Baptist church, no matter what name it may go by.
"It matters not if we cannot, from church to church, trace it back
to the First Baptist Church of Jerusalem.
The succession is there but records may hinder or stop our search.
What it teaches is the important thing.
Jesus said the gates of hell would not prevail against His church
so He guaranteed perpetuity."
37818
Well-Known Member
That is based on a New Testament document. I am thinking of the Apostle Matthew's account.
I was thinking of Matthew 16.
37818
Well-Known Member
That being from the New Testament document attributed to the Apostle Matthew.
prophecy70
Active Member
That's Revisionist history
Alan Gross
Well-Known Member
Zactly. In the same vein as Matthew 3:9.
Doesn’t mean they are Baptists.
Alan Gross
Well-Known Member
"Wherever, in history, in whatever age,
you find churches teaching these doctrines,
you have a Baptist church, like The Church that Jesus Built,
no matter what name it may go by.
"It matters not if we cannot, from church to church, trace it back
to the First Baptist Church of Jerusalem.
"The succession is there but records may hinder or stop our search.
What a Baptist-like church, like The Church that Jesus Built teaches
is the important thing.
Jesus said the gates of hell would not prevail against His church
so He guaranteed perpetuity."
(1) The church's Head and Founder is Jesus Christ
(Matthew 16:18; Colossians 1:18).
(2) Its only rule of faith and practice is the Bible
(II Timothy 3:15-17).
(3) Its members are to be only saved people
(Acts 2:41).
(4) Its government is congregational
(Acts 1:23-26 - equality).
(5) Its teaching on salvation is that it is by grace
(Ephesians 2:8-9).
(6) It has but two ordinances; Baptism and the Lord's Supper,
and these are symbolic
(Matthew 28:19-20; I Corinthians 11:24).
(7) Its commission is inclusive
(Matthew 28:16-20).
(8) It is independent
(Matthew 16:19; Matthew 22:21).
you find churches teaching these doctrines,
you have a Baptist church, like The Church that Jesus Built,
no matter what name it may go by.
"It matters not if we cannot, from church to church, trace it back
to the First Baptist Church of Jerusalem.
"The succession is there but records may hinder or stop our search.
What a Baptist-like church, like The Church that Jesus Built teaches
is the important thing.
Jesus said the gates of hell would not prevail against His church
so He guaranteed perpetuity."
(1) The church's Head and Founder is Jesus Christ
(Matthew 16:18; Colossians 1:18).
(2) Its only rule of faith and practice is the Bible
(II Timothy 3:15-17).
(3) Its members are to be only saved people
(Acts 2:41).
(4) Its government is congregational
(Acts 1:23-26 - equality).
(5) Its teaching on salvation is that it is by grace
(Ephesians 2:8-9).
(6) It has but two ordinances; Baptism and the Lord's Supper,
and these are symbolic
(Matthew 28:19-20; I Corinthians 11:24).
(7) Its commission is inclusive
(Matthew 28:16-20).
(8) It is independent
(Matthew 16:19; Matthew 22:21).
Last edited:
Maybe they were Baptist like - but Baptist churches did not exist until the 16th Century.
See above
Key phrase "Baptist-like"
(2) Its only rule of faith and practice is the Bible
(II Timothy 3:15-17).[/QUOTE]
Whether we admit it or not - tradition does play a part
and of course - we might say "what does the constitution say"
(remember you did not say for doctrine only)
(4) Its government is congregational
(Acts 1:23-26 - equality).[/QUOTE]
So if a church votes to allow the elders, church council, ect
take care of most business - it that still congregational.
Stop and think - can a church business meeting be effective if
all 5,000 members show up?
(7) Its commission is inclusive
(Matthew 28:16-20).[/QUOTE]
So is the main mission of the church to win souls
or to train members to win and disciples others to Christ?
(8) It is independent
(Matthew 16:19; Matthew 22:21).[/QUOTE]
That's right - and affiliation does not take away the fact
that every Baptist church is independent. And that includes
those in the SBC, among other groups.
Alan Gross
Well-Known Member
Alan Gross
Well-Known Member
Whether we admit it or not - tradition does play a part
and of course - we might say "what does the constitution say"
(remember you did not say for doctrine only)
(4) Its government is congregational
(Acts 1:23-26 - equality).[/QUOTE]
So if a church votes to allow the elders, church council, ect
take care of most business - it that still congregational.
Stop and think - can a church business meeting be effective if
all 5,000 members show up?
(7) Its commission is inclusive
(Matthew 28:16-20).[/QUOTE]
So is the main mission of the church to win souls
or to train members to win and disciples others to Christ?
(8) It is independent
(Matthew 16:19; Matthew 22:21).[/QUOTE]
That's right - and affiliation does not take away the fact
that every Baptist church is independent. And that includes
those in the SBC, among other groups.[/QUOTE]
Again, We believe, by Faith, that what Jesus said about being with His church,
always, that there is a continual line of HIS churches,
WHICH BELIEVED "BAPTIST" DOCTRINE, regardless of the names they were called.
Rosco Brong Sermon, Baptist Perpetuity
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Exactly what is Baptist doctrine
KJVO vs - Non KJO
there are dozens of difference
Some are considered (by at least one party) doctrine
others may just be preference
Most, but not all believe in eternal security
Most but not all say the the gifts of tongues and healing ended with the disciple
Of course one of the biggest difference is C vs A
Separation or the degree thereof keeps many Baptists separate
I do agree there has been an unbroken line of churches throughout history -
who adhered to Bible principals. But I would not be a bit surprised that very few of them
would resemble Baptist churches of today.
closed vs open communion
How soon to baptize after salvation
how long should a mans hair be?
Expositor vs. Textual vs Topical Preaching
With well over 100 baptist denominations
(yes, I know what some say about denominations -
but keep in mind - there are two basic definitions of denomination)
I do agree there has been an unbroken line of churches throughout history -
who adhered to Bible principals. But I would not be a bit surprised that very few of them
would resemble Baptist churches of today.
Boils down to one thing- interpretation
Last edited:
37818
Well-Known Member
Baptist versus non-Baptist.