atpollard
Well-Known Member
A distinction without a difference.Maybe they were Baptist like - but Baptist churches did not exist until the 16th Century.
If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck …
Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.
Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!
A distinction without a difference.Maybe they were Baptist like - but Baptist churches did not exist until the 16th Century.
Sadly, “echo chambers” (where everyone agrees on everything) are actually boring.Just thinking...if everbody posted to my preferences . Ah....what a wonderful world.
A distinction without a difference.
If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck …
I wouldn't say "without a difference". Baptistic churches prior to the 16th century existed. But they held a "Christus Victor" view of the Atonement (most today do not). They also had other distinctions (e.g., a separation doctrine, no oaths, ect.).A distinction without a difference.
If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck …
See, conversation are more interesting when people get to be WRONG.I wouldn't say "without a difference". Baptistic churches prior to the 16th century existed. But they held a "Christus Victor" view of the Atonement (most today do not). They also had other distinctions (e.g., a separation doctrine, no oaths, ect.).
I think it's fair to say they were Baptist in what makes Baptists distinct. But I am not so sure they would view most Baptists as holding what made them distinctive.
That claim, as such, is an early 20th century interpretation.. . . But they held a "Christus Victor" view of the Atonement . . . .
No, it isn't. We know Anabaptist theologies (while groups differed we know their basic theology).That claim, as such, is an early 20th century interpretation.
Who is giving this Anabaptist reference?No, it isn't. We know Anabaptist theologies (while groups differed we know their basic theology).
That would be me.Who is giving this Anabaptist reference?
Anabaptists that we might know anything about from the 16th century. The Christus Victor as a named concept didn't exist until 20th century.That would be me.
Take the "big name" of each of the groups listed in the pre-1600 groups listed and ask Would our church have this person speak in our worship? 100% NO WAY.
In some ways they were baptistic, in others? Cannot find a single group listed that would qualify as a Baptist church.
Just because a group held views akin to the main Baptist distinctives today does NOT mean they can be label as "Baptist".
And when did the promotion of "two officers: pastor and deacon" and the "congregational government" become Baptist distinctives even today? My church had elders, one of which did pastoral work, one did preaching/teaching, one did pr/media/financial as these elders were gifted. And we were an elder-led church, not a "democracy" (congregation votes, majority rule) which I do not see in the NT
"congregational government"
And we were an elder-led church, not a "democracy" (congregation votes,
An elder-led church does not have Christ as her head. She has, "elders".
"A mob-led church (remember, a democracy is mob rule just a small step from total anarchy in that there is membership for a democracy. It was the reason God gave elders to lead a church as under-Shepherds to our Lord, the Chief Shepherd. Shepherds lead, they don't take a vote.
In the Baptist rush away from papacy, bishops, vicars and denominational hierarchy, we jump to the other extreme - rule of the congregation. And this is a type of polity that is fine as long as that is LED by the elders.
Brother, maybe we should start a new thread on this topic. I'm fine to debate the pro/con of pure democracy in a church v elder leadership
Brother, maybe we should start a new thread on this topic. I'm fine to debate the pro/con of pure democracy in a church v elder leadership
1 John 2:27, ". . . But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him. .Baptist History Homepage
THE HOLY SPIRIT ADMINISTERS TO THE CHURCHES
By Berlin Hisel
Introduction: The Holy Spirit Is "the Vicar of Christ."
Until the Lord Returns,
the Spirit Has Charge of the Administration of the Churches.
I. THE HOLY SPIRIT
GOVERNS THE CHURCH OF THE LORD JESUS CHRIST.
A. The Lord's Church Has But One Head - Jesus Christ (Colossians 1:18).
1a. Any man who takes that place is where God hasn't put him.
1b. The Holy Spirit, as the Executive of the Godhead,
has been sent to govern the churches while on earth.
B. Notice This Fact By Looking At the Holy Spirit In the Book of Acts.
1. First, He appoints the human leaders over the churches (Acts 20:28). These men are to be "filled with the Spirit" (Acts 6:3).
2. Second, He helps a church to decide important cases of doctrine and practice (Acts 15:28).
3. Third, He selects men as missionaries (Acts 13).
a. He. sends them out (Acts 13:14).
b. He determines their field of labor (Acts 16:6-10).
4. Fourth, He rebukes, warns or encourages the churches. "He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith to the churches" (Revelation 2:17, 29, and 3:13).
a. In the Scriptures (letters to the churches), the Spirit is carrying on His ministry of governing the churches.
b. Each letter is authoritative because it is the voice of the Spirit unto the churches.
II. THE HOLY SPIRIT EQUIPS HIS CHURCHES.
A. Churches Today Must Function Through Human Instrumentalities.
1. The Spirit calls men into this body (l Corinthians 12:13, 18).
2. The Spirit gives the needed spiritual gifts to them to enable them in the work of the Lord (l Corinthians 12:23-24).
B. The Spirit Gives the Word of God To His Churches.
1. The Christian is compared to a soldier (Ephesians 6).
a. Defensive implements are mentioned.
b. One offensive weapon is mentioned - the Word of God (Ephesians 6:17 and Hebrews 4:12).
2. From the Word, churches draw their instruction, creed, interpretation, practices, and all else.
C. The Spirit Gives the Diversity of Necessary Gifts (Ephesians 4:8, 11-16).
1. The officers mentioned are gifts from God.
2. See also I Corinthians 12:10, 28-30.
3. Without varied gifts, the body would fail and fall apart.
D. The Spirit Aids the Churches In Their Worship of God.
1. He assists in prayers, praise, adoration, and thanksgiving (John 4:23-24).
2. See Ephesians 5:18-20, 6:18; Colossians 3:l6;
and Romans 8:26.
===========
[Outlines in Systtematic Theology, p. 101.]
More Baptists On Various Subjects
Baptist History Homepage