Baptist View of Drinking and Smoking

[KJVkid]

You don't need "Scripture" to prove drinking alcohol is wrong, you just have to "believe" what you read!

 

[mcdirector]

You don't need "Scripture" to prove drinking alcohol is wrong, you just have to "believe" what you read!

I too would like to read the scripture showing that drinking alcohol is wrong if you would be so kind as to provide it for us.

 

[webdog]

You don't need "Scripture" to prove drinking alcohol is wrong, you just have to "believe" what you read!

There are 244 mentions of alcohol in Scripture. Prove it's wrong from all 244 and you might have a case.

 

[s8147817430]

I am researching modern day values of the church for my new book. I'd love you feedback, and promise not to use any names, or direct quotes. I will only be reviewing the comments and deduce a consensus in regard to the topic.

I am seeing a slow turn in the church [all denominations] in regard to many issues. So to begin with, I'd love to know what members of the BB think about their witness and faith when it comes to social drinking and social smoking [cigarettes, cigars, and pipes]. To be honest with you all, when I worked as a Professional Boy Scout [District Executive] I smoked a pipe. I did it because most of the other executives did the same, and at that time of my life, I was highly impressionable and wanted to fit in; so smoking a pipe was a fashionable thing to do. Lucky for me, the faze lasted less than a year.

As for drinking, in my mid to late twenties, I did have a glass of White Zinfandel with my prime rib and steak dinners. Again, this bad habit was dropped before I turned 30 years old. I no longer practice this "vice" either.

I'd love to know just where you folks stand in regard to these two vices and their place within the life of a believer. If you have versus that support or condemn smoking and social [or heavy drinking] drinking, please feel free to share.

I'm not looking for anyone to get into an argument with another member, I am just compiling data to use in my new book, and your feedback will be very helpful. Remember: there are no right or wrong answers, and I don't want this post to turn into a major debate. This is nothing more than a SURVEY!

I have several other areas to discuss over the next month, or so, so thanks for you input.

Shalom,

Pastor Paul :type:

http://www.swartzentrover.com/cotor...ohol/Wine-Drinking in New Testament Times.htm

This is an article by NT Theologian Robert Stein, published in Christianity today in about 1974. It is awesome.

 

[annsni]

No one goes out of their way to spend their hard earned dollars purchasing a drug (alcohol), and ingest it into their system if they are not getting a fix from it.

But this could be said for so many other things including coffee/caffeine. I was just telling my hubby the other day how much I CRAVE my cup of tea each day. If I don't get it, I feel out of sorts. It's a drug just as much as alcohol is because of the caffeine. Is my cup of strong Tetlea British tea with milk and sugar a sin?

You're a biker. I've been a biker in the past too and it also gave me a "fix" when I was riding. I needed to ride each day and if I missed more than a few days, I felt "wrong". Of course now after all the kids and not riding for a bunch of years, I don't feel so "wrong". LOL! I think I'd feel wrong riding again.

 

[Dale-c]

You don't need "Scripture" to prove drinking alcohol is wrong, you just have to "believe" what you read!

What is THAT supposed to mean? We don't need scripture? Just to believe what we read?
Read where? Read what YOU say? no thanks!

 

[Dale-c]

Ok, I will believe what I read here, wait this is a scripture so I guess it doesn't count right?
But I will believe it anyway:

8 The trees went forth on a time to anoint a king over them; and they said unto the olive tree, Reign thou over us. 9 But the olive tree said unto them, Should I leave my fatness, wherewith by me they honor God and man, and go to be promoted over the trees? 10 And the trees said to the fig tree, Come thou, and reign over us. 11 But the fig tree said unto them, Should I forsake my sweetness, and my good fruit, and go to be promoted over the trees? 12 Then said the trees unto the vine, Come thou, and reign over us. 13 And the vine said unto them, Should I leave my wine, which cheereth God and man, and go to be promoted over the trees?

 

[Dale-c]

Here is another verse for contemplation:

Nu 18:12 All the best of the oil, and all the best of the wine, and of the wheat, the firstfruits of them which they shall offer unto the LORD, them have I given thee.


How about this one:

Nu 28:7 And the drink offering thereof shall be the fourth part of an hin for the one lamb: in the holy place shalt thou cause the strong wine to be poured unto the LORD for a drink offering.

Both of those show wine favorably.

now how about a place that promotes moderation?

3 Give not thy strength unto women, nor thy ways to that which destroyeth kings.
4 It is not for kings, O Lemuel, it is not for kings to drink wine; nor for princes strong drink:
5 Lest they drink, and forget the law, and pervert the judgment of any of the afflicted.
6 Give strong drink unto him that is ready to perish, and wine unto those that be of heavy hearts.
7 Let him drink, and forget his poverty, and remember his misery no more.

 

[Joe]

But this could be said for so many other things including coffee/caffeine. I was just telling my hubby the other day how much I CRAVE my cup of tea each day. If I don't get it, I feel out of sorts. It's a drug just as much as alcohol is because of the caffeine. Is my cup of strong Tetlea British tea with milk and sugar a sin?

Imo, tea is natural, alcohol is a drug. Tea is better for your health (usually), except the caffeine might rev you up a little. Caffeine (a drug) can ruin you bones and cause wrinkles similar to alcohol, but doesn't affect your liver as much.

As far as I know, no one has ended up in bed with someone unplanned due to too much caffeine consumption. No one has ended up pregnant because their cognitive abilities were lowered. No one has imparied driving abilities. No one has been arrested for a glass of tea, though many around here, are arrested for 1/2 glass of wine because any amount of alcohol consomption and driving is DUI. Knowing this, if there is an emergency, one can always get up and take them to the hospital right then after drinking tea. What happens if there is an emergency in your home after you hac consumed alcohol? Who takes the kids to the hospital?

Immediately after only 1/2 glass of wine, everyone relaxes to the point of their natural defenses being removed. No action or word must take place. Just interacting with someone else is going to feel more "intimate" in this state of mind. That in itself, may be sin. It can feel like you are flirting with someone even though your expressions, demeanor, or words have not indicated such. This is why women (and men) come flocking over to others who suddenly "look appealing" in social drinking situations and you can't get rid of them. They don't get social cues, and linger longer taking about junk you have no interest in. They feel different inside, there is no natural instincs to evaluate situations as there were before. It's uncomfortable, I avoid those situations.

This is not to you Ann, but some select others. If you all are so hell bent on doing drugs then why don't you try Marijuana? It is lesser of the two evils. If you only take a hit, that should do. Two hits may be too much. The only sin I can see is if it is illegal. That personally doesn't bother me. If I needed to, I would smoke it. It is legal here anyway so there isn't a problem.
If you are going to drink alcohol., then I suggest you decide whether you feel it is sin. It is likely sinning worse than purchasing some weed from a friend. In fact, you don't know what they put in that bottle of alcohol, probably many other drugs (even a worm ) and you can probably trust your friend/acquaintance much easier. The fact is, in most situations, you are risking breaking the law by just ingesting the small amount of alcohol anyway. If there was an emergency, you know you have already decided you would drive if needed.

The effects of weed do not put one at the level of risk the alcohol does. It preserves your earthly tent better. I am not promoting either one, both are drugs which are bad for your body. Drugs should never be used for non-medicinal purposes. But since most here seem to want to promote drugs (alcohol) for non-medicinal purposes, this is why I am saying it.

But if a person insists upon doing drugs, I think you ought to pick the drug which is healthiest for your body. Exerciseand eating healthy (no drugs except for medicinal uses) provides a level of fix better than any drug can produce alone. If people were eating right and exercising, the alcohol couldn't provide a better fix. I am sure you will agree Ann, since you were a pretty heavy bike rider.

Marijuana produces a similar relaxed feeling without a hangover. There are no carnal desires (in fact, I beleive they are inhibited in a good way) and no drugs going into the the bloodstream. Only a small amount of smoke equalling about half of the smoke you would get from a puff of a cigarette. Relaxation lasts a few hours or so.

I believe the effects from only a half glass alcohol last a full 24 hours. Your body's natural process is not able to break down the foreign element of alcohol. Weed is not foreign to the body, and again, doesn't enter the bloodstream. Only a tiny amount of smoke enters the lungs.
I feel funny riding my bike the following day after only drinking a half a glass of wine. I didn't feel up to par, but not as bad, after a hit or two of weed the following day. Both are bad for your body and ought to be avoided.

I've been a biker in the past too and it also gave me a "fix" when I was riding. I needed to ride each day and if I missed more than a few days, I felt "wrong". Of course now after all the kids and not riding for a bunch of years, I don't feel so "wrong". LOL! I think I'd feel wrong riding again.

I ride every other day, sometimes go as long as three days. Over the winter, it's longer such as right now. Probably only rode once a week in the last month.There was snow a few days ago. Like you, I crave that fix. During the winter time, I also crave coffee. Go through spurts buying it, and can get a headache if I don't drink it for a few days. It is highly addictive for me. So yes, there are many substances which provide a fix.

 

[JerryL]

Imo, tea is natural, alcohol is a drug. Tea is better for your health (usually), except the caffeine might rev you up a little. Caffeine (a drug) can ruin you bones and cause wrinkles similar to alcohol, but doesn't affect your liver as much.

As far as I know, no one has ended up in bed with someone unplanned due to too much caffeine consumption. No one has ended up pregnant because their cognitive abilities were lowered. No one has imparied driving abilities. No one has been arrested for a glass of tea, though many around here, are arrested for 1/2 glass of wine because any amount of alcohol consomption and driving is DUI. Knowing this, if there is an emergency, one can always get up and take them to the hospital right then after drinking tea. What happens if there is an emergency in your home after you hac consumed alcohol? Who takes the kids to the hospital?

Immediately after only 1/2 glass of wine, everyone relaxes to the point of their natural defenses being removed. No action or word must take place. Just interacting with someone else is going to feel more "intimate" in this state of mind. That in itself, may be sin. It can feel like you are flirting with someone even though your expressions, demeanor, or words have not indicated such. This is why women (and men) come flocking over to others who suddenly "look appealing" in social drinking situations and you can't get rid of them. They don't get social cues, and linger longer taking about junk you have no interest in. They feel different inside, there is no natural instincs to evaluate situations as there were before. It's uncomfortable, I avoid those situations.

This is not to you Ann, but some select others. If you all are so hell bent on doing drugs then why don't you try Marijuana? It is lesser of the two evils. If you only take a hit, that should do. Two hits may be too much. The only sin I can see is if it is illegal.
If you are going to drink alcohol., then I suggest you decide whether you feel it is sin. It is likely sinning worse than purchasing some weed from a friend. In fact, you don't know what they put in that bottle of alcohol, probably many other drugs (even a worm ) and you can probably trust your friend/acquaintance much easier. The fact is, in most situations, you are risking breaking the law by just ingesting the small amount of alcohol anyway. If there was an emergency, you know you have already decided you would drive if needed.

The effects of weed do not put one at the level of risk the alcohol does. It preserves your earthly tent better. I am not promoting either one, both are drugs which are bad for your body. Drugs should never be used for non-medicinal purposes. But since most here seem to want to promote drugs (alcohol) for non-medicinal purposes, this is why I am saying it.

But if a person insists upon doing drugs, I think you ought to pick the drug which is healthiest for your body. Exerciseand eating healthy (no drugs except for medicinal uses) provides a level of fix better than any drug can produce alone. If people were eating right and exercising, the alcohol couldn't provide a better fix. I am sure you will agree Ann, since you were a pretty heavy bike rider.

Marijuana produces a similar relaxed feeling without a hangover. There are no carnal desires (in fact, I beleive they are inhibited in a good way) and no drugs going into the the bloodstream. Only a small amount of smoke equalling about half of the smoke you would get from a puff of a cigarette. Relaxation lasts a few hours or so.

I believe the effects from only a half glass alcohol last a full 24 hours. Your body's natural process is not able to break down the foreign element of alcohol. Weed is not foreign to the body, and again, doesn't enter the bloodstream. Only a tiny amount of smoke enters the lungs.
I feel funny riding my bike the following day after only drinking a half a glass of wine. I didn't feel up to par, but not as bad, after a hit or two of weed the following day. Both are bad for your body and ought to be avoided.



I ride every other day, sometimes go as long as three days. Over the winter, it's longer such as right now. Probably only rode once a week in the last month.There was snow a few days ago. Like you, I crave that fix. During the winter time, I also crave coffee. Go through spurts buying it, and can get a headache if I don't drink it for a few days. It is highly addictive for me.

Oh ok, I hit the quote button before I remembered you were in Japan. Around here, USA, 1/2 glass of wine is about the same as 1/2 a beer, nowhere close to getting to .08 with 1/2 a beer or glass of wine.

 

[Joe]

Oh ok, I hit the quote button before I remembered you were in Japan. Around here, USA, 1/2 glass of wine is about the same as 1/2 a beer, nowhere close to getting to .08 with 1/2 a beer or glass of wine.

Do I look Japaneeze? :laugh:

A sip of wine is DUI.

It used to be called DWI, driving while intoxicated.
At DWI, you needed to be intoxicated (.08% or above)

Now any amount of alcohol in your system can get you arrrested. I was with a friend who drank 1/2 glass of wine and got arrested. We walked out together, I watched him get in his car, he drove off and boom, he was arrrested.

You also don't need to be driving to be DUI. You can be drinking, sitting outside of your car and they will arrest you. The federal governement pays all the states a bonus after a fiscal year (matching the funds) if they produce enough dui's. This is why they had to include drinking outside of being behind the wheel as DUI's. Imo, they will produce enough DUI's to get their $$ here in California. It's Greed....
They also tried to arrest a teenager in our town for .01%. He had a cold so he drank a little cough syrup

So sadly, you don't need to be .08%

 

[HankD]

Do I look Japaneeze? :laugh:

A sip of wine is DUI.

It used to be called DWI, driving while intoxicated.
At DWI, you needed to be intoxicated (.08% or above)

Now any amount of alcohol in your system can get you arrrested. I was with a friend who drank 1/2 glass of wine and got arrested. We walked out together, I watched him get in his car, he drove off and boom, he was arrrested.

You also don't need to be driving to be DUI. You can be drinking, sitting outside of your car and they will arrest you. The federal governement pays all the states a bonus after a fiscal year (matching the funds) if they produce enough dui's. This is why they had to include drinking outside of being behind the wheel as DUI's. Imo, they will produce enough DUI's to get their $$ here in California. It's Greed....


So sadly, you don't need to be .08%

Strange but true Joe.

Alcohol must bear an official stamp of the United States of America on the bottle.

Each year the federal government realizes around $20 billion in tax revenues from alcohol sales alone.

In many states such as WA, liquor can only be sold by the bottle in state run stores, so they get their piece of the action.

Then when a person drives drunk or impaired or with an open bottle (seal broken) in the car (along with several other local government offenses) people pay again to the local government.

It's BIG business for our government top to bottom.


HankD

 

[JerryL]

Do I look Japaneeze? :laugh:

A sip of wine is DUI.

It used to be called DWI, driving while intoxicated.
At DWI, you needed to be intoxicated (.08% or above)

Now any amount of alcohol in your system can get you arrrested. I was with a friend who drank 1/2 glass of wine and got arrested. We walked out together, I watched him get in his car, he drove off and boom, he was arrrested.

You also don't need to be driving to be DUI. You can be drinking, sitting outside of your car and they will arrest you. The federal governement pays all the states a bonus after a fiscal year (matching the funds) if they produce enough dui's. This is why they had to include drinking outside of being behind the wheel as DUI's. Imo, they will produce enough DUI's to get their $$ here in California. It's Greed....
They also tried to arrest a teenager in our town for .01%. He had a cold so he drank a little cough syrup

So sadly, you don't need to be .08%

Sorry, I thought you were in Japan on mission. In Kentucky you can't get a DUI or DWI without driving.(Uless like I state at the end of the post) It is AI any other way. DUI(driving under the influance) and DWI(driving while intoxicated) are basically interchangable. AI(Alcohol Intoxication) is givin for any other reason than driving. You can get a DUI here for being in the car if you are .08 or above and the keys are in the ignition. If the keys aren't in the ignition, it is AI.

 

[KJVkid]

The Scripture is clear it's the "blindness" of some baptist that call themselves christians that is disturbing. Try Gen.9 for starters. If you want to argue that drinking alcohol is ok for a Child of God.......look up the fellow that just had his wife and four daughters killed by a fellow that was drinking and start with him. After you convince him that alcohol is ok for "Christians" to drink then prepard your selves to meet Christ someday with the same argument.

 

[JerryL]

The Scripture is clear it's the "blindness" of some baptist that call themselves christians that is disturbing. Try Gen.9 for starters. If you want to argue that drinking alcohol is ok for a Child of God.......look up the fellow that just had his wife and four daughters killed by a fellow that was drinking and start with him. After you convince him that alcohol is ok for "Christians" to drink then prepard your selves to meet Christ someday with the same argument.

Taken to extremes as with most on your side. Drunkeness has never been questioned. Good point on Noah being drunk though. Is he in hell? Ask SFIC to help you out if you need to.

 

[KJVkid]

I never said Noah went to hell! However look at how much he was used by God after he drank wine.

 

[JerryL]

I never said Noah went to hell! However look at how much he was used by God after he drank wine.

And it never states he didn't anymore either. God uses me a lot.

 

[annsni]

Do I look Japaneeze? :laugh:

A sip of wine is DUI.

It used to be called DWI, driving while intoxicated.
At DWI, you needed to be intoxicated (.08% or above)

Now any amount of alcohol in your system can get you arrrested. I was with a friend who drank 1/2 glass of wine and got arrested. We walked out together, I watched him get in his car, he drove off and boom, he was arrrested.

You also don't need to be driving to be DUI. You can be drinking, sitting outside of your car and they will arrest you. The federal governement pays all the states a bonus after a fiscal year (matching the funds) if they produce enough dui's. This is why they had to include drinking outside of being behind the wheel as DUI's. Imo, they will produce enough DUI's to get their $$ here in California. It's Greed....
They also tried to arrest a teenager in our town for .01%. He had a cold so he drank a little cough syrup

So sadly, you don't need to be .08%

I don't know where you get your information from but if the blood alcohol level is .05% or below in NY, there is no law broken. They cannot arrest you for standing around leaning on the car drunk.

A blood alcohol content of .01% can result from one alcoholic drink but that alcohol will be matabolized in about an hour. So if you have one drink, and drink it over a meal, your blood alcohol level will be too low to properly register.

I haven't had a drink in a while but I used to drink a glass of wine or a mixed drink here and there. I drank before I got married and married as a virgin. I never got into bed with anyone and I never ended up with an unwanted pregnancy. You really can't make blanket statements about alcohol like that. The majority of people who drink are not irresponsible but there ARE those who are and they need to be vitally careful. But a drink will not cause one to sin (because I don't believe that what we can put into our mouths can cause us to sin unless it's breaking the law of the land).

 

[Joe]

I don't know where you get your information from but if the blood alcohol level is .05% or below in NY, there is no law broken. They cannot arrest you for standing around leaning on the car drunk.

A blood alcohol content of .01% can result from one alcoholic drink but that alcohol will be matabolized in about an hour. So if you have one drink, and drink it over a meal, your blood alcohol level will be too low to properly register.

I haven't had a drink in a while but I used to drink a glass of wine or a mixed drink here and there. I drank before I got married and married as a virgin. I never got into bed with anyone and I never ended up with an unwanted pregnancy. You really can't make blanket statements about alcohol like that. The majority of people who drink are not irresponsible but there ARE those who are and they need to be vitally careful. But a drink will not cause one to sin (because I don't believe that what we can put into our mouths can cause us to sin unless it's breaking the law of the land).

You are correct. I looked it up. Your laws aren't as stringent, as it starts at 5%
That's encouraging . Sorry, I am spewing out California law as if it applies all over.

Yes, most people are responsible. But sadly, there are so many who aren't. People are killed, domestic violence and child abuse occurs when it wouldn't have otherwise, illigitimate babies are born, couples who would have used protection do not producing unwanted babies and spreading STD's to even the innocent. It's a national epidemic. No other drug causes as much destruction as alcohol. Not sure why people deem their glass of wine worth all of this human pain and suffering, so that they need to defend drinking it.

In California, with just .01% of alcohol, or any amount of alcohol on your breath (including cough syrup) will cause the breathalizer to register alcohol consumption. You are likely arrested (if it's CHP) and automatically have your license revoked for 30 days. It may not be reinstated after 30 days, so some people go months without a drivers license.

Also in California, you are in Court twice. Convicted twice for the same offense. Not sure if other areas are similar. DMV Court and Criminal Court will try to prosecute. DMV pretty much makes it's own rules (Vehicle Code), so imo, most are screwed by it. Criminal Court can't do so, our laws are in place to prevent this. DMV has their own laws "modeled" after the Criminal Courts.

DMV may untimately decide not to reinstate you your license because you ingested a dose of cough syrup. It happens. DMV judges often only posess a high school diploma, and they do not follow the law. DMV has their own law modeled after our criminal law, but without the consititutional rights. You can't defend yourself at DMV, the decision is set in stone. People here loose their license for having alcohol in their saliva, as the breathilizers register between 1-2 points higher than a blood test, yet are used to measure blood count.
So cough syrup will register, I am guessing about 2% though you do not have 2% of alcohol in your blood. Many here attend classes, they are considered alcoholics (people who abuse alcohol)because of one drink.

The reason is they make the most $ by causing your Insurance rates to increase for years afterwards. It's a round robin of $, even the judges are trained by the same funds received by the busted DUI drivers (except the older judges). Ever since the National Hwy Transportaion was created, this has occured. The united motorist assoc. (or whatever it was called) was unbiased, and the money was not a round robin.



And don't forget, on job applications they ask, "Have you ever been arrested?"
Your livelihood is ruined, over one glass of wine or cough syrup.

There are many bible verses prohibiting alcohol in the Bible, and some which seem to allow it. This is why these discussions are never resolved.

No matter what, no one can doubt that to error on the side of caution is best. Even if we belive the Lord allows it, we will never know at what % the Lord consideres us drunk, so it may be less than 1/2 glass of wine. Be careful people, or imo, try another drug which is not forbidden in the bible. And will not ruin your secular livelihood.

 

[HankD]

Speaking of overindulgence in any area including food as well as alcohol:

What do reformed churches call a pot "luck" dinner?

a pot-predestined dinner or do they just put aside their theology for the evening?



HankD